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Quick, earnest question for our Dallas friends.....


Art

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Steve Spurrier said of Patrick Ramsey, the following, "But I did learn that he certainly can throw the ball. He's a beautiful passer." Reading this statement got me to thinking what might have been said of Quincy Carter in April a year ago. We KNOW that in April this year you guys have been very happy with the quote, "Carter lost 13 pounds," but that's not really helpful.

Last year at this time, a time Spurrier is talking about Ramsey's ability to throw the ball, what was being said of Carter, if you could help us recall. Was it:

"He's not really comfortable yet taking the ball from center." Or...

"He's got a lot of wobble on his throws." Or.....

"When he drops back, he doesn't stumble down each time anymore." Or.....

in responding to a reporter's question, "Oh, Quincy said he doesn't like to run? Well, we plan to use him in the option some."

Ok, just having some fun. Don't get your panties in a bunch over it :).

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"beautiful passer." --- As compared to what, the other stiffs in camp?????? :)

I'm through defending Quincy Carter to you people. It seems that noone can look past his start to last year. No one(here) wants to remember that he looked like a pretty good qb at the end of the year. No one wants to acknowledge(here) that this kid is talented, hard working, and is a leader. The fact is, he has made the transition to NFL Qb, it took time, but I can only think of a couple of qb's who made the transition from college to pro seamlessly.

Ramsey is going to go through growing pains. It's a given. It looks like the Cowboys qb has turned that corner. Ramsey is just starting his trek. Most qb's never get around that corner.

Ramsey may turn out to be a very good qb in a year or two. He also may not. One thing is certain, he will not be much help this season to the Redskins.

Dispute it if you want but it is a fact.

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I havent responded to any of Ken's statements because he very well may be the worst smack talker we've ever had on this board.

I dig his horrible misuse of a simple term such as "fact". I find it quite endearing. I think this kid needs to be brought to the light, and converted to a Redskins fan. I nominate Art to take the kid under his wing and "edumacate" Ken.

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:laugh:

We've got the "Art of Smack" on our side.

Ken, Quincy has not turned that corner yet, though anything is possible. He has peeked around the corner on occasion, but that is all.

And if you were to say that the odds are heavily against Ramsey contributing much this year, I'd grant you that as a matter of fact. But since Marino played well his first year, it is a fact that Ramsey has a one-in-whatever chance of contributing this year (I know we're splitting hairs here).

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As for Quincy Carter, and trust me... I've seen him play personally, he's got to be the most athletic guy I've seen play QB in the SEC in quite some time.

With that said, he also has a nice arm... capable of hitting most of the NFL required throws. Not the mosted gifted "touch" passer, since he has a tendency to wing it at high velocity....but satisfactory.

Finally, he has got to be the WORST DECISION maker I've ever seen play QB. I watched him play in front of a sold out crowd two years ago in Columbia SC. against the Game****s. He threw five, count them 1-2-3-4-5 intereceptions due to his inability to recognize defenses ... both zone or otherwise... and by being rattled by a pass rush.

I fully expect him to wow some people with his athleticism this year, with an occasional reference to McNabb and Stewart thrown in for good measure, only to be ridiculed for thowing horrid interceptions when pressured. I also expect him to loose his starting job this year, and be released from his obligations as QB for the cowboys by the end of 2003. Mark my words fellas.

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Originally posted by Ken

No one wants to acknowledge(here) that this kid is talented, hard working, and is a leader. The fact is, he has made the transition to NFL Qb, it took time, but I can only think of a couple of qb's who made the transition from college to pro seamlessly.

It took time? I think he's played in a total of 8 NFL games.I will acknowledge he's talented and hard working compared to the other stiffs you have in camp.:D

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Ken, "As compared to what, the other stiffs in camp?????? " Yes, well, speaking of comparing to stiffs. What about that platoon of "stiffs" surrounding Q.C.? Now that can make somone look good.

It's comments like these from Cowboys fans, including you, on this board that have forced a response from many of us. Instead of rehashing the same argument, take a look at these.

Here's an example for ya.

example 1

May have to scroll down to bottom of page to find the beginning of a Q.C. debate. Hit page 5 for more. Keep an eye out for several things. 1) what happens to bad trash talkers and pictures that follow. 2) you are not the first we have had this debate with. And 3) Q.C. does get a bit of a prop there somewhere. :)

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As I recall, Emmitt was pissed that Carter wasn't the QB initially, and Wright, who is mainly a backup wasn't impressing him (Smith)or Banks..yet, isn't Campo the coach???

So Emmitt gets his way, probably with Jerry Jones blessing, Carter starts and because he is backed by the two most influential people in the organization, who would buck that???

Carter isn't there because he's a barn burnerand beat the competition, he's there by committee. Now should he stank up the joint, Campo will look like the genius he was intending to be, but was sidetracked by Emmitt's complaint reaching Jerry Jones skybox suite. Shaun King has a big edge on Carter. I also give Ismail and Galloway credit for using teamwork to help him out. Nothing wrong with that, but Carter isn't what you really think he is.

If you put Wright in the lineup with Cowboys offense last year, it is very obvious, optimistic and very good things would be said about him too, when actually, the defense carried the team for the most part. Nothing wrong with that, but giving credit so loosely to one particular source, so often, clouds the FACTS.

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"One thing is certain, he will not be much help this season to the Redskins.

Dispute it if you want but it is a fact." - Ken

It may be likely, but this season hasn't happened yet so unless your name is Nostradamus you can't really know how much help Ramsey might be. He might not play or he could start opening day. If he plays, he might play well or he might fall on his face. If he plays well the Skins might go to the playoffs and he will have played a big part in that.

Who's to say?

The only thing that is certain is that you can't say for certain what will happen this coming season. Now ... that is a fact.

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Quicy Carter is NOT as good a QB prospect as:

Heinz Ward, Antwaan Randal El, Kevin Johnson, Woody Danzler

and NONE of those guys has a prayer of starting at QB in the NFL (maybe Dallas)

Jerrah just wanted to go get himself a running QB as was the style, now hes married to the pick for wont of looking like an imbecile.

I think that the Hutch signing pretty much says all you want to know about what the 'pokes think of QC anyway.

posers.

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Ken,

You are correct that Ramsey may be a good quarterback in this league and he may not. The difference I'm pointing out is he's already so much further ahead of where Carter was, and, he's not going to be handed the job before he's ready, as Carter was, which are advantages his growth will enjoy that Carter's didn't.

It is not probable that a rookie QB will be of great help, but, it's hardly fact to presume that it couldn't happen. I don't think Redskin fans are banking on Ramsey's immediate success though. I think we know it takes time for rookie's to develop. A for Carter, it's not that we're not looking past the start of last year. It's that we can't see past the end. In three of his last four games he had QB ratings of 42, 58 and 46. Yes, he had two very nice games. Heath Shuler had some nice games as well.

Ramsey may already be further ahead Carter and he certainly has better coaching as witnessed by Spurrier taking very average talents at the QB position and making them something impressive on the college level. But, you are right not to defend Carter any longer. You are hopeful he'll be successful and that is great. I can respect the hope you attach yourself to. Defending him, though, is silly, because, really, you don't have any idea if he'll be your QB of the future any more than we did of Shuler in his second year. Time will tell on both Ramsey and Carter.

Ramsey just doesn't look as incompetent in April of his rookie year.

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Steve Spurrier said of Patrick Ramsey, the following, "But I did learn that he certainly can throw the ball. He's a beautiful passer."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1375167.html

"The initial pass of his first seven-on-seven drill this weekend was errantly wide of tight end Walter Rasby by a yard or two. The second, a dumpoff to a running back, occurred after Patrick Ramsey overlooked an open wide receiver cutting through the middle. And on his third attempt, the Washington Redskins first-round draft pick was intercepted."

Reading this statement got me to thinking what might have been said of Quincy Carter in April a year ago. We KNOW that in April this year you guys have been very happy with the quote, "Carter lost 13 pounds," but that's not really helpful.

Last year at this time, a time Spurrier is talking about Ramsey's ability to throw the ball, what was being said of Carter, if you could help us recall. Was it:

"He's not really comfortable yet taking the ball from center." Or...

"He's got a lot of wobble on his throws." Or.....

"When he drops back, he doesn't stumble down each time anymore." Or.....

in responding to a reporter's question, "Oh, Quincy said he doesn't like to run? Well, we plan to use him in the option some."

Ok, just having some fun. Don't get your panties in a bunch over it .

Why should we? Our bum starting QB is 1-0 against your team. How bout them Apples.

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Q,

Ramsey was very carefully used in team drills during our mini-camp. He does not know the offense, understand the system, or have any idea what's going on out there, which is the point Lenny is writing about here. What was clear about Ramsey, despite this, as Spurrier said is that he throws a very good ball. What's clear to Lenny here is that he has a great deal more talent than any other QB on the roster, which, we admit doesn't show much.

But, we don't expect our rookie QB to be seamlessly reading the defenses and drilling perfect passes to everyone he sees. We just don't have to worry about him being unable and unused to taking the center exchange, as Carter was. We don't have to work on the rudimentary level of being a QB as you had to do with Carter. It's about being ready and Spurrier isn't going to rush Ramsey into that. Unlike your owner thrusting Carter into things prior to his ability to play, our coach won't do the same to Ramsey. He'd rather have him focus on learning, watching and understanding before working in. That just benefits us a great deal in his development.

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I don't think too many folks outside either Dallas or Washington believes that either team has an established QB.

I have no idea why Dallas resigned Clint Stoerner (I liked the kid in college but he's not NFL material) and Ryan Leaf is still over 265 lbs. (Maybe we ought to try him out at DT).

As a Redskin fan, I've seen all of Anthony Wright that I want - he's 2-0 against us and has some whammy going.

Why Cowboy fans are so defensive about Quincy Carter is sort of a mystery to me. You won't find a lot of Redskin fans defending Danny Weurffel. If Jerry Jones thought Carter was The Man, he wouldn't have signed the other kid in the off season. I mean, would you be telling Detroit's McMahon, "You got nothing to worry about, kid. We just signed Harrington for depth."?

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Art

The Coach

Posts: 4391

(6.76 Posts Per Day)

posted on April-29th-2002 09:08 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q,

Ramsey was very carefully used in team drills during our mini-camp. He does not know the offense, understand the system, or have any idea what's going on out there, which is the point Lenny is writing about here. What was clear about Ramsey, despite this, as Spurrier said is that he throws a very good ball. What's clear to Lenny here is that he has a great deal more talent than any other QB on the roster, which, we admit doesn't show much.

DID YOU JUST MAKE THIS STATEMENT:"Ramsey may already be further ahead Carter and he certainly has better coaching as witnessed by Spurrier taking very average talents at the QB position and making them something impressive on the college level. But, you are right not to defend Carter any longer. You are hopeful he'll be successful and that is great. I can respect the hope you attach yourself to. Defending him, though, is silly, because, really, you don't have any idea if he'll be your QB of the future any more than we did of Shuler in his second year. Time will tell on both Ramsey and Carter.

Ramsey just doesn't look as incompetent in April of his rookie year."

If Ramsey is so much further ahead of Quincy and has better coaching why all the fuss about bringing him along slowly.

Good for you and Lenny, but In my opinion a pretty pass ain't worth ****. Haven't you learnt your lesson with the whole Jeff George saga. My team is in the mist of learning the same lesson with Ryan Leaf( The guy is overweight again and out of shape)

But, we don't expect our rookie QB to be seamlessly reading the defenses and drilling perfect passes to everyone he sees. We just don't have to worry about him being unable and unused to taking the center exchange, as Carter was. We don't have to work on the rudimentary level of being a QB as you had to do with Carter. It's about being ready and Spurrier isn't going to rush Ramsey into that. Unlike your owner thrusting Carter into things prior to his ability to play, our coach won't do the same to Ramsey. He'd rather have him focus on learning, watching and understanding before working in. That just benefits us a great deal in his development.

Well good for him and your team. Patrick Ramsey could be God's gift to minicamps and Training camps ala Rick Mirer or Ty Detmer. But the fact remains, until he proves himself on the field when given the opportunity you and your fellow skin fans will wear those rose colour glasses.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2002/04/28/nfl_quarterbacks/

Belichick elloquently stated:"It's sometimes hard to evaluate some players until you actually give them the opportunity," says Belichick. "I'm sure people saw that Kurt Warner had talent but felt he was too far away. A guy like Jeff Garcia might not look the part like some of the other quarterbacks, but he's a productive player on the field.

"What you're looking for is a guy who has some of the qualities that you're looking for, but you're going to have to give the guy some direction and coaching."

Patrick Ramsey could be the best NFL QB prosepct. He could be brought along slowly, with training wheels and party trained until he is a practice freak, but until he produces in live action Ramsey is just another high priced rookie QB.

Objective Cowboy fans know that Quincy Carter is a long way from being the answer the Boys are looking for. But we have hope. Our hope is based on Quincy Carter's significant improvement last season. Quincy Carter is already the leader on our team. You compare him to Heath Shuler. Yes, they both may have had spectacular games, but where Quincy Carter seperates himself from your pathetic bust is in the leadership, work ethic, commitment and love for the game. Quincy Carter was back at Valley Ranch 2 weeks after the SuperBowl working on his game. Bruce Coslet was hired 2 -3 weeks later and Quincy Carter has been a the ranch organizing workouts for veterans and rookies as early as mid February. Quincy Carter has been working out, dropping 15 pounds to improve his stamina and reduce injury.

I know you may be impressed with Ramsey's "pretty passes". As a Dallas fan I have witnessed perfection in Training camp from Troy Aikman only to have stud LB in Lavar Arrington and Phillies defense cut short his career. Qbs are made and destroyed when live bullets are flying, Ramsey's mecahnics may be flawless but his state of mind is uncoachable when the Lavar Arringtons' and La Roi Glovers' of the league are coming.

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Here is what we know:

FACT: The Cowboys wouldn't trade Quincy Carter for Pat Ramsey. In fact, Dallas wouldn't even trade their third round pick to the Lions so they could move up and take Harrington.

FACT: I doubt Spurrier would trade Ramsey for Carter. I have no doubts that he'd trade Ramsey for Harrington.

FACT: I'd take a good taco over a good hamburger any day of the week, and twice during lunch.

FACT: Rick Mirer, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Heath Shuler, and Jeff George were better prospects than either Ramsey OR Carter.

FACT: Kurt Warner, Jeff Garcia, and Mark Brunnel were worse prospects than either Ramsey OR Carter.

FACT: I wish the clerks in the grocery store would stop asking me if I want any "Cash back?" whenever I use my debit card. I don't want to announce to the whole world how much cash I have in my pockets!!!!! What is this????

What does this all mean????? It means that for both guys, it's more likely they'll be career backups than Superbowl winning QBs. And it's also possible that both guys will go on to the Hall of Fame.

Other than that, we don't know nothing.

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Ummm, Q, perhaps you didn't know that Ramsey was given the playbook on Thursday, before the first practice. He is being brought along slowly because he doesn't have any knowledge of the offense right now and he'd actually hurt the team to throw in there where Craig, Rosenfels and Wuerffel have had three months or several years of learning the offense.

That does register with you does it not? I know in Dallas they like it when owners come in and unseat the starting QB without the coach knowing about it in favor of a pet pick who by everyone's estimation was not ready for the NFL. But, in Washington, we really don't see why we'd let a rookie QB run plays when he doesn't KNOW the plays. He was given a day of working on fundamentals and to watch, and pick up some things. He did less work at camp than any player because his job will be the hardest and he doesn't KNOW the offense.

Not knowing the offense and not knowing how to take the exchange from center are two different things, don't you agree partner? I mean, Carter couldn't even take an exchange from center AND he didn't know the offense in April. Ramsey simply doesn't know the offense. And, when he hit Russell on a 60-yard-touchdown pass on Saturday, we didn't think "Great, it's on," no more than we thought when Smoot intercepted him a couple of plays later that, "Oh, no, he sucks." He is learning the offense and showing QB skills. Carter, in April and beyond, was learning the offense and learning QB skills. There, my boy, is the difference.

That Ramsey is so much further ahead, and being coached by such a proven coach with the QB in Spurrier, is just an immense benefit to his growth as compared to where Carter was a year ago. I'm sure you see the obviousness of that statement as well as I.

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Ummm, Q, perhaps you didn't know that Ramsey was given the playbook on Thursday, before the first practice. He is being brought along slowly because he doesn't have any knowledge of the offense right now and he'd actually hurt the team to throw in there where Craig, Rosenfels and Wuerffel have had three months or several years of learning the offense.

That does register with you does it not? I know in Dallas they like it when owners come in and unseat the starting QB without the coach knowing about it in favor of a pet pick who by everyone's estimation was not ready for the NFL. But, in Washington, we really don't see why we'd let a rookie QB run plays when he doesn't KNOW the plays. He was given a day of working on fundamentals and to watch, and pick up some things. He did less work at camp than any player because his job will be the hardest and he doesn't KNOW the offense.

Not knowing the offense and not knowing how to take the exchange from center are two different things, don't you agree partner? I mean, Carter couldn't even take an exchange from center AND he didn't know the offense in April. Ramsey simply doesn't know the offense. And, when he hit Russell on a 60-yard-touchdown pass on Saturday, we didn't think "Great, it's on," no more than we thought when Smoot intercepted him a couple of plays later that, "Oh, no, he sucks." He is learning the offense and showing QB skills. Carter, in April and beyond, was learning the offense and learning QB skills. There, my boy, is the difference.

That Ramsey is so much further ahead, and being coached by such a proven coach with the QB in Spurrier, is just an immense benefit to his growth as compared to where Carter was a year ago. I'm sure you see the obviousness of that statement as well as I.

Let's put the QB debate to rest. We can go on all day about whose QB is better. Let the players performance on the field(regular season game) speak for it's self. I am looking forward to the season and especially the Thanksgiving game. Both teams have improved their personnel(coaches and players). The production on the field will give a better indication.

Question. Based on our team's "off season improvements" and the schedule layout what records to you envision both teams having going into the season finale at FEDEX FIELD. I know it is just speculation, but what is your early take.

If you're interested in my opinion I am willing to share it with you.

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Q,

I don't take seriously any predictions in April of what I think any team will do. I've tweaked my estimation on the Redskins from 6-10 to 7-9 or 8-8. We're a better defense than we were and we will be a superior offense, but, with Wuerffel or Rosenfels, it's hard to imagine being a playoff team. However, that presumes I know more about the QB position than Steve Spurrier and if he can get 3000 yards out of his QB, the Redskins would probably be an 11-win team. I don't make final or real predictions until after the preseason is over and we know what type of team we actually are going to have.

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Q,

I don't take seriously any predictions in April of what I think any team will do. I've tweaked my estimation on the Redskins from 6-10 to 7-9 or 8-8. We're a better defense than we were and we will be a superior offense, but, with Wuerffel or Rosenfels, it's hard to imagine being a playoff team. However, that presumes I know more about the QB position than Steve Spurrier and if he can get 3000 yards out of his QB, the Redskins would probably be an 11-win team. I don't make final or real predictions until after the preseason is over and we know what type of team we actually are going to have.

Thats cool.

Here is a nugget to get your day started.

Greatness:http://www.theblitznetwork.com/

Smack:http://citadel.ezboard.com/fcowboyupdatefrm8.showMessage?topicID=77.topic

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Ya know, you just have to love Cowboys fans when they say stuff like this:

"Cowboys have more than 5 Super Bowls under there belt if you count Championships back in the 30's and 40's."

I think somebody needs to brush up on the history of his team.

As for the links themselves? These are posted because? :)

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fansince62

Q....and we're looking toward the final dallas game in dc.....

If these grades from the experts translate onto the field,

http://www.dallascowboys.com/cgi-bin/Cowboys/draft_grades.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1606099931.1020099957@@@@&BV_EngineID=fadcdlhelehmbedchecjcfe.0

my team might be resting our starters(Remember like the last time you guys beat Dallas hehehe).

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Q, does a day really ever start without the knowledge that somewhere, somehow, Dallas fans will circle jerk themselves into some heightened, nonsensical belief that their team is the best? Sheesh, I don't even need your links to know that's happening. But, fortunately for us all, I don't bother administering my lessons to all those in need. Just those, like yourself, who've sought out some help.

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