Akhhorus Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 He's a good CB, but not a Top 10 CB in the league. He's one of my favorite Redskins, but he wants to be paid like Champ, HE'S NOT WORTH IT. Save the money and sign a replacement. If we can replace Champ, we can replace Smoot easier. And guys, his whole article and interviews is an attempt to give him exactly what we're seeing on the board right now. Everyone demanding that the Skins resign him and the media chattering about it. It's a ploy, he's trying to get the skins to up their offer without asking them directly. If Kansas City or Arizona is stupid enough to give him Champ Bailey type money, then let them. Move on. I will now take your criticism and death threats.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_1972 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Interesting how folks are now coming out of the woodwork now that there is the possiblity of Smoot not resigning calling his value into question. Are we going to start calling him the "new Champ" now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by Akhhorus He's a good CB, but not a Top 10 CB in the league. He's one of my favorite Redskins, but he wants to be paid like Champ, HE'S NOT WORTH IT. Save the money and sign a replacement. If we can replace Champ, we can replace Smoot easier. And guys, his whole article and interviews is an attempt to give him exactly what we're seeing on the board right now. Everyone demanding that the Skins resign him and the media chattering about it. It's a ploy, he's trying to get the skins to up their offer without asking them directly. If Kansas City or Arizona is stupid enough to give him Champ Bailey type money, then let them. Move on. I will now take your criticism and death threats.... I would agree with you, IF Smoot IS asking for some ridiculous SB of say $12-15 million. But at the moment we really don't know what Smoot IS asking for. Cerrato says they offered to pay him top 10 CB money, whatever that is. Top 10 CB money could be anywhere from Champ's $18 Mil SB, down to a $5 Mil SB. Big difference. So we will have to wait and see what figures emerge. I think that is also why we brought in Walt Harris as insurance last year, anticipating this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axegrinder Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 It is definitely a bargaining ploy. Remember,he was supposed to be a 1st round pick that dropped to the 2nd because he attended a party where there was marijuana.He lost money on that whole deal. Secondly,he plays when hurt and with heart.He's fan friendly and he keeps the team loose. I think that he'll be here next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Yeah, but Walt Harris is no Fred Smoot. I wouldn't feel confident in him taking over Smoot's job. Then again, I'm guessing it was Gregg Williams that brought in Springs, so maybe he can find us another winner if worse comes to worse and Fred does leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhhorus Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by bird_1972 Interesting how folks are now coming out of the woodwork now that there is the possiblity of Smoot not resigning calling his value into question. Are we going to start calling him the "new Champ" now? I've always liked smoot, but I never thought he was a top flight CB. His biggest value was as a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLES80GURL Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 :helmet: I think Smoot held his own this season......he is too small in my opinion.......still love him but he needs to hit 200....he is 180 and that makes him that much easier to get tossed!:helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan51 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by Akhhorus I will now take your criticism and death threats.... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I know how you feel. I only made a SUGGESTION that Lavar could be traded and I got flamed. Ha! I've been a diehard 'Skins fan for over 30 years. Like I would want to do something to hurt this team's chances of winning. :doh: It doesn't hurt to throw around ideas. That's what this board is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLusby Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 There was an article saying one coach wasn't that sold on Smoot. I wonder which coach, could it be Williams? If so, he will be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Williams loves Smoot. It's time we start rewarding our own players. We overpay other teams trash yet lowball our own studs? No wonder we're perennial bottom feeders every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atloldskin Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Smoot can play, that is why we want to resign him. Plus he is a leader on this team. He is a Top 10 CB in this league but not a Pro-Bowler per the voting (he may have been robbed). Still, the Redskins may have made a fair offer depending on the salary range of the Top 10 CB. Andre Rolle is looking better each week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan51 Ha! I've been a diehard 'Skins fan for over 30 years. Funny, you don't look a day over 65. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhhorus Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by Warhead36 Williams loves Smoot. It's time we start rewarding our own players. We overpay other teams trash yet lowball our own studs? No wonder we're perennial bottom feeders every year. right: Marcus Washington, Coles, Randy Thomas, Portis, Springs, Griffin, Bowen. All trash...:laugh: :laugh: Wynn, Noble, Haley havent been great, but they arent making a ton. And before you say Brunell, in the end he wont hurt the cap that much: his contract might say 7 years, 40+ million, but he'll only cost 3 years, 11 million in the end. I'm all for keeping our players, but I dont think the Skins should pay above market value just to keep a player who isnt a great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Native,NC_Fan Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan51 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I know how you feel. I only made a SUGGESTION that Lavar could be traded and I got flamed. Ha! I've been a diehard 'Skins fan for over 30 years. Like I would want to do something to hurt this team's chances of winning. :doh: It doesn't hurt to throw around ideas. That's what this board is for. The board ROCKS, but sometimes I'm afraid to throw a suggestion or idea out there due to the sometimes prevailing attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 How many TDs has Smoot given up this year? 0 How many times have you seen Smoot one-on-one deep and defend the pass? Numerous. Smoot gives the team some identity, he must stay. Andre Rolle is a bum. I don't know how many scout reports I've read that say he'd fit in a Cover 2 system, not a system we employ that puts the corners on islands all the time. He can't keep up speed wise with the elite WRs in the league and most of his game would get numerous flags in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novascotiadiesel Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 you are right we can' let layers hold us ransom, but smoot is a redskin and to me that counts for a lot, i think we should work to get it done but not be silly with the money and if he overvalues himself too much then let him see how he will do in somone other than greg williams schemes, i think he becomes a nobody on another team, but having said all that i hope we keep him because he is our smoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 actually his name isnt andre it is antrel rolle ... he might or might not be a fit here , im all for keeping smoot , i dont understand why people are comfortable looking for another good corner like we found springs , chances of doing that twice are slim besides why search when we know what we have in smoot , damn near the best D in the league in the first year under williams ...keep smoot dman it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhhorus Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by Mittens How many TDs has Smoot given up this year? 0 How many times have you seen Smoot one-on-one deep and defend the pass? Numerous. Smoot gives the team some identity, he must stay. please. Smoot has gotten beaten this year for TDs and he has got beaten on the deep pass many times. Thats his weakness, guarding the deep pass. Antonio Bryant beat him for two in the first dallas game and I know that he was beaten in both philly games for deep balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Portis! Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Smoot is a vital part of this organization; he is a "Redskin". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Smoot is not a Top 10 corner. The last two years he's been a Top 5 corner. He MIGHT be the current top corner in terms of "cover corners" in the league right now. He's not surrendered a single touchdown this year. He's had a couple of interference calls -- not all valid. He's given up one or two longer passes -- one where he tripped. You can't ask for more than that. Smoot is the soul and personality of the team. Champ never was. It would be a shame to lose his ability, though you can recover that as we've seen with Springs. It would be more a shame to lose his personality as HE is the type of player you want other players to be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by Akhhorus please. Smoot has gotten beaten this year for TDs and he has got beaten on the deep pass many times. Thats his weakness, guarding the deep pass. Antonio Bryant beat him for two in the first dallas game and I know that he was beaten in both philly games for deep balls. This is simply false, Ak. Smoot has not surrendered a single TD in man coverage. He's only been beaten twice on deep routes that I can remember though it might be three or four. In any case, it's UNDER a handful. AB didn't beat Smoot in the first Dallas game for a deep ball. Smoot was in exquisite coverage and AB simply made a nice play. Getting beaten is different than simply having a receiver make an exceptionally fine individual play. You WILL have that happen to every corner in the league from time to time. It ONLY becomes a problem if it becomes a regular thing. It's ok if you do not want to value Smoot as highly as, say, Champ. But, the fact is, Smoot has been BETTER on the football field than Champ was for us. So, if Smoot feels he's got Champ's value, he might have a point. Personally I think Smoot is supposedly asking for Spings' value and that should be a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I generally agree with Art's assessment of Smoot's play although, I do believe he has one major weakness, and its his hands. As tightly as he's been in coverage the past 2 years, he should have many more picks. I have seen many plays where the ball is within his grasp and he can't haul it in or hold onto it. However, thats a pretty petty criticism since even having your hands on the ball usually means you're in the right position and have made a positive play as a cornerback. But I think the 'value' discussion is largely irrelevant. Its like getting dumped by a beautiful girlfriend...you immediately begin looking for all of the 'faults' that should be obvious to everyone Bottom line, I'm not arguing Smoot should be unconcerned with the bottom line, and his 'deal'. Obviously, its very important to him. But if he's going to place that priority over all other considerations...the coaching staff Snyder's assembled, the potential critical point the Skins are at right this moment, his loyal fanbase here, the essence of what 'being a Redskin' means.... Then good luck. If you, as an NFL player are going to take the cynical 'its just a business' line, you probably will make much more money than a player that hitches his star to one team and makes a career there. But don't expect the same love and respect those guys get. Because you don't deserve it. I think theres a lot of validity to the points being made about spending on free agent non-Redskins. I think it would be relevant here if I didn't believe the front office is offering to make Smoot a very rich man. Since I suspect we've made incredibly generous offers to Smoot already, I think its a non-issue in this discussion. The choice is clear...do you want to be a very well-paid Redskin, or do you just want to be extremely well-paid. His apparent choice so far is disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhhorus Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by Art This is simply false, Ak. Smoot has not surrendered a single TD in man coverage. He's only been beaten twice on deep routes that I can remember though it might be three or four. In any case, it's UNDER a handful. AB didn't beat Smoot in the first Dallas game for a deep ball. Smoot was in exquisite coverage and AB simply made a nice play. Getting beaten is different than simply having a receiver make an exceptionally fine individual play. You WILL have that happen to every corner in the league from time to time. It ONLY becomes a problem if it becomes a regular thing. It's ok if you do not want to value Smoot as highly as, say, Champ. But, the fact is, Smoot has been BETTER on the football field than Champ was for us. So, if Smoot feels he's got Champ's value, he might have a point. Personally I think Smoot is supposedly asking for Spings' value and that should be a no brainer. I concede the touchdowns in man coverage, but he's gotten burned more than 3 or 4 times deep. Driver and Ferguson burned him badly. And last week he got a pass interference because he got beaten. If I recall, it was pinkston who beat Smoot on a move for his 80 yard catch in the second Philly game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Originally posted by Akhhorus He's a good CB, but not a Top 10 CB in the league. He's one of my favorite Redskins, but he wants to be paid like Champ, HE'S NOT WORTH IT. Save the money and sign a replacement. If we can replace Champ, we can replace Smoot easier. And guys, his whole article and interviews is an attempt to give him exactly what we're seeing on the board right now. Everyone demanding that the Skins resign him and the media chattering about it. It's a ploy, he's trying to get the skins to up their offer without asking them directly. If Kansas City or Arizona is stupid enough to give him Champ Bailey type money, then let them. Move on. I will now take your criticism and death threats.... Agree with you 100%! He is replaceable. If anything was learned this year, its that a bunch of no name defensive players playing together in a sound system are far better than any overpaid, overhyped, superstar. In addition, IMO Shawn Springs came in here and outplayed Smoot each and every game. Smoot gives way too much cushion and quite honestly hasnt made a big play yet. If I see smoot make another ole' style one arm tackle I'm gonna throw my tv out the window! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 AK, The Pinkston catch was against zone coverage. In fact, Smoot commented on it after the game on Comcast when he said the only play they made against us was against the zone and we didn't run a zone again. Pinkston did catch a long ball on Smoot in the first game where Smoot fell. Again, such things happen. Until Smoot falls with regularity on long balls we won't say he took a dive like we do with Bailey . Against Green Bay I recall one of the long passes you're talking about but not the other, in that one was exactly like the touchdown against Dallas last week in that it was the safety zone. I'll rewatch to see if the other was against Smoot directly or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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