skinsfan93 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Please understand that this thread is not a "knee-jerk" reaction to last night's loss. Also, realize while I do admire Patrick's demeanor, attitude, courage, arm, etc., I still question whether he is our answer at the QB position. I question whether he has the combination of mental and physical make-up to win ball games at a consistent basis. Sure, it's only been 6 starts this year but I still have not seen the dramatic improvements needed at the most important position on the field. I know Ramsey has had to deal with a number of factors going against him: -poor offensive line -numerous drops by wideouts -inconsistent running game -new offensive system -signing of Brunell -still fairly new to the NFL But when some of these things are corrected and he has had more time on this team and in this system, is he the man? If you look at his play last night against a middle of the road defense, he still looks like the same player that he did when he first arrived in the NFL. Without looking through burgundy and gold glasses, I think you would agree with me. Last note: We can win without a franchise qb (ala Rypien, Williams, Schroeder) and we certainly have holes that may require more emphasis, but down the road, I just don't think he is our long term, franchise QB. If he ends up being our qb for the next 10 years, that would be great. I will support whoever is behind center for the Skins..... but what's your honest opinion of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 to answer simply is ramsey the man ?... yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Ramsey's the man. The O-Line is the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SILKYSMOOTH Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Gotta love Ramsey. He has more heart than anyone out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the big slim Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Damn Straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne4sure Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Definitely. Your 1st three points, if corrected, would allow the skins to open up the passing game. Ramsey has 0 time to throw. He reminds me of a young Brett Farve...maybe not even as out of control, but pretty darn close with the bullet arm, and the crazy tendency to throw into well covered receivers. And no one thought he would make it Green Bay but his coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet daddy Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I think he is...We know he can do it...just like the Atlanta game last year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjKam1 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 This is a very good post, because our poor team play this season is the result of many factors but the Quarterback position has to be in question here as well. Are we actually seeing improvement with Ramsey? I think that Ramsey still shuffles too much in the pocket, he doesn't have that confident quarterback bounce like Daunte Culpepper, Jake Plummer, and the rest of the NFL's quarterbacks. Yeah I know the o-line contributed to that problem but he should be able to move around a bit better. Also, the most important thing, does he have the AWARENESS to be a successful quarterback as a starter? Okay I'm going to use Payton Manning here, but Payton will rip a defense apart, audible correctly to adjust to a defense and simply step back for maybe two seconds and get the ball out immediatly with accuracy. Some of Ramsey's audibles are horrendous and he doesn't see the field well enough. Maybe the recievers are at fault here as well because they aren't smart enough. Don't get me wrong here, I love Ramsey's heart and passion that he displays with our team, but it comes down to being able to step back and make a quick and correct desicion. Coach Gibbs is not letting Ramsey put himself in a situation where he would make the bad throw but when it comes down to it and Ramsey will air it out, it is hit or miss. Maybe we need to give him another year. I support him to the fullest because he is our QB. But maybe we need approach coaching him a little differently. He need's confidence as well, and maybe even an extra reciever to challenge defenses and let them lay off a bit. Let's please get rid of Gardner, pick up one reciever and develop the rest of the ones we have! Wow what a loss Jon Jansen was! :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 I think his confidence is a bit shaken, I really do. I felt he was more confident under Spurrier. Hopefull a little success and an entire offseaons knowing he's the starter will help. We'll know after next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atloldskin Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Ramsey can be the man. He needs to learn better footwork in the pocket. He needs to slide or step up from the rush once in a while. He has a gun; he has a heart. He is a leader on this team. He has cut down his mistakes. He has a way to go before Gibbs lets him loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Give Ramsey 3 years under Gibbs. I firmly believe he's going to blossom. Even yesterday, despite a very mediocre performance overall, he lead us to what should have been the winning score. I think its a valid question. The truth is only time will tell. But I think Gibbs is seeing how badly Ramsey wants to lead a winner, and that the kid is infinitely coachable. My money's on Ramsey ultimately becoming a very solid QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBChick Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by DjKam1 the most important thing, does he have the AWARENESS to be a successful quarterback as a starter? Okay I'm going to use Payton Manning here, but Payton will rip a defense apart, audible correctly to adjust to a defense and simply step back for maybe two seconds and get the ball out immediatly with accuracy. Some of Ramsey's audibles are horrendous and he doesn't see the field well enough. Maybe the recievers are at fault here as well because they aren't smart enough. I think this is the one real question. The confedence in the pocket will come if he figures this one out. He doesn't seem as perceptive of the defense and defensive schemes as one would like. But I have to question if this is something he has even really been taught much. From the stories I hear about Spurrier, I would suspect he didn't give this as much weight as Gibbs does and probably didn't coach it well either. He seems to be learning it, though not very fast. He's learned to play the safe card, which he wasn't very good at in the first Giants game. Of course now the problem is I think he checks down a little too much. Getting most of the attention in the off season should help. But this one can't and won't be answered until next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted December 27, 2004 Author Share Posted December 27, 2004 It's really unbelievable how blinded everyone is when it comes to judging Ramsey. The first thing everyone says when it comes to Ramsey is "how much heart/courage" he has or "how about that strong arm". Of course, this is usually coupled with "the Oline stinks" or "the wideouts suck". I'm not saying those shouldn't be big factors when it comes to judging the abilities of a qb, but c'mon...not every good qb in this league has the best wideouts or the best Oline. Some of them just perform regardless of how bad the rest of the team is. Alright, enough ranting.... there are two areas where I haven't seen Ramsey improve this year. One is touch and the other is the ability to see a 2nd/3rd option. Yesterday's game is a perfect example of this. He "gunned" it in there a few times (like the td throw), but there were numerous times, he just needed to be able to get the ball there but he didn't. Is it me or does it seem like...he needs to have all of his mechanics go right for him to make the throw? I see no ability on his part to just get the pass completed when he's pressured or things break down a little. Also, on that throw to Jacobs where Ramsey did do a good job of moving in the pocket and hitting the receiver, he also didn't see a wide open Gardner running a post. People want to complain about Gibbs not taking shots downfield, well that was one where Ramsey decided not to go long. He seemed "locked" into Jacobs and didn't look around for the other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 the ability to see a 2nd/3rd option. Yesterday's game is a perfect example of this. this is directly related to lack of time in the pocket, he always has to avoid pass rusher, and hurry his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted December 27, 2004 Author Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by Tarhog Give Ramsey 3 years under Gibbs. I firmly believe he's going to blossom. Even yesterday, despite a very mediocre performance overall, he lead us to what should have been the winning score. I think its a valid question. The truth is only time will tell. But I think Gibbs is seeing how badly Ramsey wants to lead a winner, and that the kid is infinitely coachable. My money's on Ramsey ultimately becoming a very solid QB. C'mon Tarhog....3 years under Gibbs? If that's the case, Ramsey would be in this league for 5 years as a NFL qb. I don't care if Ramsey played under Spurrier for 2 of them, but that is just way too long to determine if someone can be a NFL qb. There are just too many guys in this league who have succeeded by their 3rd year or sooner in this league, and that's regardless of who was coaching them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted December 27, 2004 Author Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 this is directly related to lack of time in the pocket, he always has to avoid pass rusher, and hurry his decision. I guess no other qb has to avoid a pass rusher and hurry his decision? Ramsey always seems to be hurried and never comfortable in the pocket. There are a heck of a lot of QB's who seem poised in the pocket regardless of the pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan93 There are a heck of a lot of QB's who seem poised in the pocket regardless of the pass rush. Name them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvilGeniuz Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 we love Ramsey, keep him ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan93 I guess no other qb has to avoid a pass rusher and hurry his decision? Ramsey always seems to be hurried and never comfortable in the pocket. There are a heck of a lot of QB's who seem poised in the pocket regardless of the pass rush. :laugh: right Manning is the best QB in the league.... and the least sacked. no matter how talented a QB maybe he has to have time and lanes to throw ball.... basic 101 football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan93 I guess no other qb has to avoid a pass rusher and hurry his decision? Ramsey always seems to be hurried and never comfortable in the pocket. There are a heck of a lot of QB's who seem poised in the pocket regardless of the pass rush. Originally posted by TK-IV II I Name them. Originally posted by bubba9497 :laugh: right Manning is the best QB in the league.... and the least sacked. no matter how talented a QB maybe he has to have time and lanes to throw ball.... basic 101 football And here I was, trying to be subtle & Bubba breaks out the sledgehammer. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted December 27, 2004 Author Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by TK-IV II I Name them. - Brady (even when he first started, plus Billcheik is known as a defensive guru) - Pennington (Edwards known also a defensive coach) - Big Ben (rookie) - Manning - Leftwich (young QB with one proven wr and coach was a lb in the NFL) - McNair (played well after one year on bench) - T. Green (played well after given a chance with Skins) - McNabb (only qb I believe it took 4 years to succeed, but always had ability to make a big play with his feet) - Favre (made mistakes early in his career, but also had the ability to make the big play as well) - Culpepper (played great after sitting on the bench for 2 years) - Vick (gets sacked a lot but makes big plays with both his arm and his feet) - Delhomme (rode bench for a while then makes enough plays to get his team in the superbowl, and having good year this year without a proven rb and with best wr hurt all year) - M. Hasselback (rode bench with Packers, then plays great after 2nd year as starter) - Bulger (has a strong arm, no mobility, but can make the long throw and the short ones that go for 50 yards) I'm not saying Ramsey needs to be as good as these guys, but a lot of them played well early in their career. Some took a while but was put in a new system and excelled. Do you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Now what do they all have in common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 theres this on guy on the board, who has a pic of ramsey, and says "Ramsey, Past, present, and future of washington" or something to that extent you should listen to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan93 There are just too many guys in this league who have succeeded by their 3rd year or sooner in this league, and that's regardless of who was coaching them. and how many blossomed after several years Collins, Gannon, Green, Warner, Pennington, McNair, Brees, Vinny T, Hasselbeck, Bulgar, Bradshaw, Theisman, Stabler, Dilfer, Simms, Montanna.....etc in fact most qb don't succeed until after 4-5 years in the league. Very few have success in their first year or two... not many Manning, Marino, Elways that can play right out of college an have some success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 27, 2004 Share Posted December 27, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan93 - Brady (even when he first started, plus Billcheik is known as a defensive guru) - Pennington (Edwards known also a defensive coach) - Big Ben (rookie) - Manning - Leftwich (young QB with one proven wr and coach was a lb in the NFL) - McNair (played well after one year on bench) - T. Green (played well after given a chance with Skins) - McNabb (only qb I believe it took 4 years to succeed, but always had ability to make a big play with his feet) - Favre (made mistakes early in his career, but also had the ability to make the big play as well) - Culpepper (played great after sitting on the bench for 2 years) - Vick (gets sacked a lot but makes big plays with both his arm and his feet) - Delhomme (rode bench for a while then makes enough plays to get his team in the superbowl, and having good year this year without a proven rb and with best wr hurt all year) - M. Hasselback (rode bench with Packers, then plays great after 2nd year as starter) - Bulger (has a strong arm, no mobility, but can make the long throw and the short ones that go for 50 yards) I'm not saying Ramsey needs to be as good as these guys, but a lot of them played well early in their career. Some took a while but was put in a new system and excelled. Do you agree? gee, everyone of them play behind good OL, and had several years experience. except Leftwich and he isn't setting records either. this year Bulger has struggled behind a porous OL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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