Ain't that familiar.

[Art]

Somewhat typical of a Redskins game coming off a nice win is the sort of game you saw today. The Giants created a couple of mistakes. Then, instead of letting the game come to us, we give several mistakes to them. A turnover that goes for a touchdown on a first-down run. A dropped pass here. A penalty there. A remarkably bad throw over here. This is the formula we've seen from this team for years.

Gibbs won't change the culture overnight.

What he will do is somewhat remarkably still see his team in a football game despite a six-turnover differential. The Giants did a nice job getting things going against the defense early, but, late, the defense really took control of the game. Unfortunately the defense can't compensate for an offense that seemed to really NEED to give that game away.

This is not to take anything away from New York as they had a nice game plan early and they did create a couple of nice plays that led to negatives for us. However, it's hard to watch that game and conclude anything other than the majority of those mistakes were given to the Giants. Unforced errors to use a tennis term.

To lose by six despite seven turnovers kind of shows the difference in talent on the rosters. However, to have seven turnovers kind of shows the team we've long been. An underachieving bunch of expectant losers. We expect teams to swoon at our greatness before we demonstrate consistent greatness. Hell, even goodness.

In the past when teams have stood up to us after an early shot on our part, we've collapsed. To some degree we did here as well. But, from a spirit and fight standpoint, this team showed more than many we've recently had. Despite continued mistakes, the defense never cashed it in. There was still a belief.

But, belief is not enough. No team really has the talent to overcome seven turnovers. Certainly we don't, despite the proximity we came to doing just that. We didn't deserve the win, and honestly, like the Atlanta game last year where we won despite ourselves, but pulled it out, perhaps losing because we are what we've long been is what we need to ultimately be something else.

A win here and you can grin off the mistakes. Mouth the words we were lucky, but, still being 2-0, not really believe just how lucky. We didn't deserve it and while not pleased we lost, I certainly am not disappointed given the circumstances.

On the positive side you really see what good coaching does on the defensive side of the ball. Dominating run defense was again the norm. Marcus Washington was brilliant. Smoot and Springs were very good in coverage. Griffin was destructive inside. Pierce once again sound. Seven turnovers and the defense, and a missed field goal, and the defense still holds the bad guys to 277 yards.

Stunning.

Warner was hit on a dozen of his throws. This is the kind of thing we have had fevered dreams about here. Unfortunately, the offense just isn't where it has to be. And we didn't really expect it to be.

It will take weeks for the offense to catch up. Time for Gibbs to feel comfortable letting some of the deeper routes develop. The timing of such routes and the blocking to firm up -- though in spite of announcer calls to the contrary, the line held up nicely in the face of an aggressive defense.

Gibbs won't continue to pound his fist into a wall all year as the season wears on. He won't continue to force runs into 9 and 10 man fronts. You'll see more motion. More formations. More play action. But, the timing isn't there and you can see that it isn't. When several of us talked about a slow start to the season, this is what we were talking about.

Confusion. Uncertainty. Pressing. Missed opportunities.

We saw it last week. We saw it this week. We're 1-1. You can take that positioning heading into a big home game against the Cowboys.

Ramsey won't continue to press as he so obviously did today. Clearly he's trying to win a job and instead solidified himself as a guy who needs time to learn. Brunell may be gimpy next week. Not good against a fast Cowboys team. Vinny looks good and presents us a difficult, more complete offense to face in the passing game than either the Bucs or the Giants.

Gibbs' teams usually respond well when they lose a game like this one. They usually get REAL serious because they are going to be worked very hard. And they should be. Even if it makes us a bit dogged by the end of the week.

For game balls, you have to go with Washington leading the way as he continues to generate pressure, show well in coverage and flashes huge in the running game.

I'll give a game ball to Griffin today who took away all interior running the Giants could have hoped for.

My final game ball will go to Ray Brown who I didn't expect to see, but who played well out there. I have to read the boad to see why Jones didn't play.

[Coach Williams]

nice read//........I'd say this is the closed I'm gonna see to a "quality assessment." I can't wait for the pastabelly articles....I need a laugh........

[laurent]

Well put Art. I have to ask you though what makes you think that Gibbs hasn't been calling those deep routes all along.

There were a couple times in the first half where we went to max protect and sent receivers out on deep routes but tt seemed to me as if receivers either didn't get open, or Brunell simply didn't have faith that he was going to get the balls down the field.

This all seemed to change the second Ramsey came into the game. WRs were streaking down the field and Ramsey was actually able to hit them on a couple of occasions.

Also, at the risk of coming across blasphemous, I thought the play calling in the second half was less than ideal. After we came within six points there was plenty of time left on the clock, yet we pretty much abandoned the run and invited the Giants to key off on our passer.

Either Gibbs figured that he'd have a better chance throwing down the field while the Giants kept sending blitzes or he's still trying to get back into a rhythm with his playcalling.

[spanishomelette]

Good read...The D played remarkable considering they had to contend with 7 turnovers.

This week will be a tough one. These guys are going to have to work their asses off if they want to be ready for the unmentionables. They're D is well coached.

I expect to see better concentration by everyone on the O. I hope Hixon's son is getting better as he is surely missed. The receivers seem to lose focus at key moments.

The postgame crew was wondering about Jones. Brown was interviewed and he said on Friday that he knew he would be starting by how many reps he was getting. It sounds like he just beat Jones by practice performance.

[Muskrat]

Art, your assessment of the game today is right on, IMO. The fact that the game was within reach DESPITE 7 turnovers indicates that this is a different Redskins team than in year past. Gibbs WILL work them hard, and these mistakes are not likely to happen again in the near future, if at all.... Unlike years past, I STILL think that we WILL compete in EVERY game this year, win or lose....

[Neophyte]

Hey, we even got close on a long with Brunell in the game. If Gardner had paid more attention to where he was on the field, like a professional wide out (sorry but I am going south on Rod 50/50 Gardner real fast), we would have hit a big one with Brunell thowing the ball.

All in all, I think you are right on in your assessment Art. We did not earn this one and not lucking into it is likely good for this team at this point.

I think these guys will learn something new this week too. I remember several of the old Hogs mentioning that the week after a loss was absolutely miserable at Redskin park under Gibbs. Something that was not the case under Spurrier. These guys are going to want to win next week just to avoid another week of what happens to them this week, I think.

[Dirk Diggler]

2 Things that bothered me most:

1) The drops by Gardner

2) The complete lack of fire I saw from Ramsey when he came in. He should have been pumped. Instead he looked like a zombie. And played like one too. Delay of game? Picks? Holding the ball too long? Pitiful.

[ummagumma]

I'm sorry...seemed like a typical Redskins game to me. Plenty of times over the several years the skins have been in a position to win, but make bad plays at bad times. Many of them against the Giants. I just see more of the same.

And 50/50 is better than 0/100 which is what I'm going to start calling McCants

[afparent]

I didn't think this was a typical Skins game. Last years team would have quit like they did against Buffalo and Philadelphia. Actually we have had at least one quit game every year for the last five years. I see a different attitude with this team and it doesn't hurt that we have a great defense

[luckydevil]

Another positive:

Chad Morton

[Blondie]

This makes 2 posts of yours today Art that I agreed with.

Now, that is something good.

Good thoughts......good analysis.

Blondie

[ummagumma]

I think this is the game I really remember.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20021208_NYG@WAS

It comes flooding back.

0/100 with the big turnover here. Dropping passes or fumbling. Which is worse? That's rhetorical folks.

Another -4 TO game they lost by one score...ouch.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20021128_WAS@DAL

[spanishomelette]

Originally posted by ummagumma

I'm sorry...seemed like a typical Redskins game to me. Plenty of times over the several years the skins have been in a position to win, but make bad plays at bad times. Many of them against the Giants. I just see more of the same.

And 50/50 is better than 0/100 which is what I'm going to start calling McCants

I think that you're point has some validity. We have some of the same players that seem accustomed to making mistakes. But maybe we can all take heart in the difference that was made between the St. Louis game and the Atlanta game in the preseason. They will go back to the fundamentals all week if they have to in order to stop the mistakes.

I trust in Gibbs. I could be wrong too, but I have more experience watching Redskins football under Gibbs where these mistakes get corrected in a weeks time than the consistently mistake-ridden football we got used to over the last few years.

[Chris Worthy]

Good Read Art. You can take alot from that and look at 2 things that stand out from Gibbs History:

1. His teams start slow.

2. His record in the Meadowlands is not good.

But will say it again, Alot of the fans (or so called you make your own assumption) are not allowing this team to really.. i mean REALLY gel and get their feet under them. Hell If you go from PASS PASS and PASS again with undisciplined coaching to a RUN first with discipline out of the Wahzooo from the Head Coach/Pres. of Football operations right down to the Quailty Controls Guy. I dont care how much talent you have on the team... IT TAKES TIME TO GEL..and they will. If they dont, Joe will examine what he haves and get the BEST REDSKINS for his team.:2cents:

[jimster]

We need to remember this team is still young and new playing together. As mentioned before the game, the players in the past are sometimes content after a win.

This game is an example the coaching staff can use for the rest of the season to teach and motivate. Many lessons can be learned from this game.

Winning builds confidence, but losing builds character.

[spanishomelette]

Originally posted by jimster

We need to remember this team is still young and new playing together. As mentioned before the game, the players in the past are sometimes content after a win.

This game is an example the coaching staff can use for the rest of the season to teach and motivate. Many lessons can be learned from this game.

Winning builds confidence, but losing builds character.

I'll take character. But they gotta wring those mistakes out of those players. Last year they seemed to make no adjustment in practices after a loss. I think it will be definitely different this week and hopefully noticeable on the field.

[Morning Wood]

Art,

I just wanted to take a quick moment to say thank you for this thread. I don't always agree with what you have to say, but I am with you 100% on this one. I've read enough "pissy missy" type threads this evening. This loss has been blamed on everything from Snyder, to Sean Taylor, to <insert utterly ridiculous assessment -here->. It’s comical to me how quickly many here would turn on the team. Well, comical and kind of disturbing as well.

We’re 1-1 folks, 14 games left. Seven turnovers, and we were still in the game til the end. Skins teams of the recent past would not have kept this nearly as close. The offense just needs time to gel. We'll get there.

Please folks, ease up on all the Armageddon talk. You're givin me a headache.

[keith]

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler

2 Things that bothered me most:

1) The drops by Gardner

2) The complete lack of fire I saw from Ramsey when he came in. He should have been pumped. Instead he looked like a zombie. And played like one too. Delay of game? Picks? Holding the ball too long? Pitiful.

drop passes by gardner , i agree with you 100%

Ramsey im not sure about.

again if Gardner made that catch in the end zone, redskins get a TD and most likely win the game. also ramsey dont throw that INT.

to me ramsey's throws had more zip on it than brunells. Ramsey wasnt scared to throw deep as well. most importantly, ramsey's fav recevier seems to be coles as oppose to gardner which to me seems like brunells fav target thus far.

[jimster]

Originally posted by spanishomelette

I'll take character. But they gotta wring those mistakes out of those players. Last year they seemed to make no adjustment in practices after a loss. I think it will be definitely different this week and hopefully noticeable on the field.

I guess that's what I meant - this game will serve as a poster board for the rest of this season to the team to focus on each individual opponent and play, and to take every opponent seriously.

This week many of the players are hearing from local media how great they are after winning the opener and that the Giants should be an "easy" game, and many of them seemed to believe that. - This game was a eye opener to them that no win will be easy.

This game was probably a good lesson to be learned, and probably best learned early in the season. - I'm just thankful we learned it this week rather than next.

There will be a different team on the field next week.