neilclarke Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 It just seems to me that Patrick is so shell-shocked from the past few years w/ Spurrier, he doesn't have a clue what's he doing.... I don't know how long, if ever, it will take him to totally un-learn the "fun & gun" Spurrier pitch & catch crap that must be burned into his brain. It looks like it's going to take the hall of famer to get him back to resembling a QB who can play at this level. But, is Ramsey damaged goods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I think he's been damaged goods, but we've been rationlizing his mistakes away over the course of the last two years... "He's young, he'll learn". Frankly, he hasn't learned. He's making the same mistakes as he did in his first NFL action. Think about it. Does he look ANY better than he did in his first few games? He actually looks like the same player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSkins Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I'd say he's goods that hasn't gotten any reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by JoeSkins I'd say he's goods that hasn't gotten any reps. at least not in a good system..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishomelette Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Let's hope not. He may be the guy next week. Better hope he can improve along with the rest of the guys on O. The whole O could have been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by chiefhogskin48 I think he's been damaged goods, but we've been rationlizing his mistakes away over the course of the last two years... "He's young, he'll learn". Frankly, he hasn't learned. He's making the same mistakes as he did in his first NFL action. Think about it. Does he look ANY better than he did in his first few games? He actually looks like the same player. If people look at Ramsey objectively (not just adoring him for being able to take sacks), he really hasn't learned anything since being in the NFL. He played like this even at Tulane. He really hasn't shown improvement. He has the tangibles...strong arm, height, confidence, heart...but he still does things that drives me crazy. Anyone see Favre when he first started playing. He would try and sling the ball between 10 defenders, never throwing the ball away. At least with Favre, if he got into trouble he could run and also make some nice throws on the run. Ramsey still does the same thing since he's been a rookie. He makes some throws that we say...wow...this guy is the next great QB. But then he comes back and makes really a dumb mistake. I can honestly say I can't recall a time when Ramsey has thrown the ball out of bounds...can you? Let's face it...Ramsey is not ready to be the starter, neither is Hassellbeck. Brunell offers our best chance to win. Did he play well today, hell no...but he also would probably had given us at least 2 field goals to tie the game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFolk Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I think he should just sit for a year. I mean he reminds me of a another #11 that use to play here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I think he is damaged good. I think he is damaged goods because of all the hits he had last year. I think he is damaged goods because we signed Brunell and I think he is damaged good because Brunell beat him out. I think he has totally lost his confidence. Looking at his facial gestures in the game, he doesn't look like he has that fire in the belly you need at this level. He needs to be ****y and he is not. He had the greatest opportunity in the world today and he blew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgunner Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 It's sad but Brunell is our best chance to win games as lame as he is. However here it is week two and Brunell is hurt already just from running untouched for a first down. Ramsey may play next week. Give him the reps and let Gibbs work with him and let's see what happens. Besides do we have a choice?:puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 He didn't seem to crumble under pressure at all. It was his decision making that was suspect. If he is damaged goods, then Brunell is what? A yard sale toaster? Our #1 QB was so "effective" that the giants played the entire game with 8 men up front. He was so undamaged that he won't throw to open receivers down field prefering short dump offs. Can anyone tell me they've seen Brunell hit s receiver in stride? Seems everyone he throws to stops to make the catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I'll say this...all the guys who've been saying Brunell doesn't have the arm strength to give us a viable downfield threat may be on to something. It was very evident today how much quicker Ramsey's release is, and how much more zip he puts on the ball. He clearly CAN make throws Brunell just isn't physically able to. Whether or not that will ultimately make him 'the man' is going to depend a lot on whether Ramsey can mature. As Cris Collingsworth said today, Ramsey will NEVER be Gibb's guy if he continues to make mistakes that cost his team games. Thats what he did today. On the other hand, he came in facing an extremely challenging task, and he didn't get much help. I view Ramsey as a rookie and I don't think we should expect much more from him without some serious seasoning. What I DIDN'T see today though was a 'jittery' or 'nervous' QB. He looked pretty darn comfortable back there. He just pressed and made some bad decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufumonk Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by JoeSkins I'd say he's goods that hasn't gotten any reps. I'd also say that he's goods that was forced into throwing an Int because Coles ran the wrong route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconBlue Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Then whats our alternative? I haven't seen Brunell setting the world on fire. I saw a kid coming off the bench trying to make things happen. He made somebad decisions trying to force the ball into places it couldn't go. Nothing more nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenF Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Steve Spurrier's system is known for making QBs look better than they really are. Today, Ramsey just showed his true colors. He's always had a cannon of an arm, but not much else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by KenF Steve Spurrier's system is known for making QBs look better than they really are. :laugh: :laugh: Yeah they all look great in systems with tight ends covering elite pass rushing defensive lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenF Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Destino, Shane Matthews? Danny Wuerfel? And these guys actually won six games in a row for the Skins. As you saw, it doesn't really matter how much protection Ramsey gets. He's bad no matter how long he has to throw the ball. He can't move his feet to avoid a 3 man pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&G Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I was shaken today by Ramsey's 3rd interception but I haven't yet lost all confidence in him. Frankly, Ramsey "looked" much more comforatable in the offense than in preseason when he looked clueless. From the very beginning though, he didn't look like he was having any fun. His facial expressions looked strained to say the least. Patrick may simply be putting too much on himself at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorris Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by KenF Steve Spurrier's system is known for making QBs look better than they really are. Today, Ramsey just showed his true colors. He's always had a cannon of an arm, but not much else. Better? What would that be, better like a crash test dummy? I hope you jest. I'm going to go out on a line with my first prediction of the season ..if Ramsey gets the reps and starts next week, he lights up the Cowboys like the 4th of July. Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuji869 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 I kind of wonder that myself. I like the guy and know that if he makes it with the Redskins he will be a guy that the fans will love. But wonder if the pounding he took under the SOS Fun-N-Gun has done its damage? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Hog Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan93 If people look at Ramsey objectively (not just adoring him for being able to take sacks), he really hasn't learned anything since being in the NFL. He played like this even at Tulane. He really hasn't shown improvement. He has the tangibles...strong arm, height, confidence, heart...but he still does things that drives me crazy. Ditto skinsfan93 - He's been around for 3 years. Surely he should have gleaned some things simply by being in the NFL, watching other QBs on film, other defenses, etc… It just seems that he hasn’t learned much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet daddy Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 If Gardner would have caught the endzone pass there would have been no follow up to get INT'ed. If Coles runs the correct route there would have been no INT. Also there were several other dropped balls. By Portis, Coles, and Gardner. I think Ramsey played great and the above mentioned played like crap. Not to mention this was Ramsey's first action. He should be the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Good lord, it's this again. So, if Ramsey hasn't learned anything, has Brunell forgotten things? Did he forget that when you have a botched snap, you just fall on it instead trying to make some hay of it? Or did it slip his mind on several occassions in this game and in the Tampa game that throwing deep into double coverage when you've lost some zip on your passes isn't the most adviseable thing to do? Or maybe an early onset of senility caused a lapse in his memory that when you've got pressure, you'd better protect the rock? To be sure, Ramsey made some big mistakes today. But this was just one day and one game. Like some others here have noted, it might've been just a little different if Gardner makes that catch in the endzone, not only for Ramsey himself but also for the outcome in this game. Give all this a break. Ramsey played in a college system his first two years under Spurrier and now has to learn for the first time what it's like to be in a pro system and unlearn all of what he absorbed last year. Simply put, he gives us a lot more upside than Brunell, and with seasoning, which he hasn't gotten until Gibbs came here, he'll be our future. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by goldenster95 Good lord, it's this again. To be sure, Ramsey made some big mistakes today. But this was just one day and one game. Like some others here have noted, it might've been just a little different if Gardner makes that catch in the endzone, not only for Ramsey himself but also for the outcome in this game. Give all this a break. Ramsey played in a college system his first two years under Spurrier and now has to learn for the first time what it's like to be in a pro system and unlearn all of what he absorbed last year. Simply put, he gives us a lot more upside than Brunell, and with seasoning, which he hasn't gotten until Gibbs came here, he'll be our future. Period. Why are you and so many others so patient with Ramsey, yet so quick to dispose of Brunell? When is Ramsey no longer a "kid" and when will it be time when he finally "unlearns" his bad tendencies? When is it just "one game" and "wait till the next one"? I'm not looking for Ramsey to win the game for us, single-handlely. Am I hoping, sure. What I am looking for is for him not to lose it for us with stupid mistakes...false start, fumbles, batted balls and of course, throwing into coverage. Look Ramsey has tools, but the main question you should really think about is..."when will he improve?" Has he gotten better since he's been a rookie. AND NO, It's not all Spurrier's fault. As much as Spurrier's offense was the best for the NFL, the guy is still a pretty darn good coach. Ramsey should have at least improved under him to a point. He should have at least gotten better than when he was a rookie. He makes the same mistakes in that 1st game against the Titans as he does now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Two points . . . 1. If you're gonna criticize Ramsey for not learning anything, why grant Brunell such lenity when he's doing things that no vet like him should? 2. Ramsey has learned in the Spurrier's offense. When has a second year QB racked up a 14/9 TD/INT ratio? Now, he has to re-learn everything. If this were still Spurrier's offense, you might have a point. But it isn't. And we need to treat Ramsey almost like a rookie right now when assessing his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xe101 Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Originally posted by neilclarke Is Ramsey damaged goods? yes, but with work he can be fixed!!! he was sacked 30 times last year and I don't know if he actually played all 16 games... that hurst... and when you don't have your back side covered and got hit the way he did last year I'm surprised he made it thrugh training camp this year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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