inmate running the asylum Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66466&highlight=Portis Something to think about. Back in the preseason I raised this question [see above thread] and after yesterday's game I think it warrants further discussion after Clinton Portis carried the ball 29 times, plus his 4 touches as a pass receiver. I'm not concerned about Clinton Portis looking gassed as he was yesterday, what I'm concerned about is Portis carrying the ball too much and thereby shortening his career, and the cap consequences of this. Larry Brown: You younger guys don't remember this issue, but it was an issue with Larry Brown under George Allen. Larry Brown was about the same size as Clinton Portis (205 lbs.) and in the opinion of many at the time, was overworked during games by Allen. Even when Allen's teams got inside the 5-yard line, Allen had a tendency to let Larry Brown pound the ball into the end zone, in spite of the fact he could have given the ball to 240 lb fullbacks on the roster like Harraway. Larry Brown never declined carrying the ball, even though there were games when his tongue appeared to be hanging out from fatigue. In 1972 Brown carried the ball 285 times or an average of 23.7 times per game. He then was injured and had knee surgery and was never the same following 1972. But Allen still continued to overwork him in subsequent years and it was a sad thing to see Brown dragging his leg and appearing to run on only his one good leg. Of course some people argued that Brown could just as well have been injured on his 10th carry, as his 200th carry, but I think the more shots someone takes at you in combat, the more likely you are to get hit or injured. John Riggins: In 1983 John Riggins carried the ball for the Redskins 375 times in 15 games, for an average of 25 times per game. This was the most carries Riggins ever had in a season. In playoff games under Gibbs, Riggins also carried the ball 37, 36, 38 and 36 times. A heavy workload, but Riggins at least weighed 240 lbs., to take the pounding. Tony Dorsett: Then there is the case of Tony Dorsett. Although Tony Dorsett didn't like it -- he kept asking for more carries -- Tom Landry said he was lengthening Dorsett's career by limiting the number of carries he had in games. Over his career the 190 lb., Dorsett carried the ball 2936 times in 173 games, for an average of only 16.9 carries per game. The most carries Dorsett ever had in a season was 342 or 21.3 per game. All the rest of the time, he averaged less then 20 carries per game. Darrell Green: One of the smartest things I think Joe Gibbs did in handling Darrell Green's career, was not overusing him. That is why I think Green was able to avoid the risk of knee surgery and play at a high level for 20 years. Green probably would have been one of the greatest punt returners in history -- ala Dante Hall -- but Gibbs rarely used Green in this capacity, except in some playoff games. But now the question is: will Gibbs accede to Portis' request to carry the ball more or use good judgment as Landry did with Dorsett? And of course, I have not even counted the number of other times that Portis may touch the ball as a pass receiver. Another thing to think about here is that under free agency, if Portis career is shortened by injury, this could be a cap disaster with his high signing bonus. In 1972 George Allen didn't have to worry about later cutting Larry Brown, because there were no cap consequences in cutting him. Something to think about. Comments anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Damn, 1 game into the season and the griping has begun. Well, say Portis had only run 15 times yesterday...would we be then saying he isn't utilizing Portis enough? Seriously, do you really believe Portis will average 29 carries a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 But now the question is: will Gibbs accede to Portis' request to carry the ball more or use good judgment as Landry did with Dorsett? One of the smartest things I think Joe Gibbs did in handling Darrell Green's career, was not overusing him. That is why I think Green was able to avoid the risk of knee surgery and play at a high level for 20 years. Green probably would have been one of the greatest punt returners in history -- ala Dante Hall -- but Gibbs rarely used Green in this capacity, except in some playoff games. Kind of answered your own question there, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72651 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Originally posted by The Evil Genius Damn, 1 game into the season and the griping has begun. Seriously, do you really believe Portis will average 29 carries a game? This is not griping. Art even mentioned that Portis seemed gassed yesterday and he was concerned about this. I am raising another concern, mainly about Portis' long-term career. I hope Portis doesn't average 29 touches a game during the season, but does anyone know whether he has bonus incentives in his contract to earn millions of dollars more, based on total yardage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Portis seemed gassed due to the lack of pre-season carries (to help not OVERWORK him). We discussed this before. Outside of one season with Riggins, no other "feature back" had over 300 carries in a season. and the use of the #2 and sometimes #3 back. I believe Betts would have seen more action except Portis wanted back in there. 25-30 carries a game maybe alot of an entire season... but considering Portis was fresh, and healthy, this was a low scoring game.. and only the 1st game... I think there is no reason to panic.. or stir up **** about it. Basically a non-issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Defense Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 inmate, you raise a good point, but lets wait and see what the workload is over a few more games. trust in gibbs, who want the make sure clinton is around for awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Defense Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 beat me to it bubba. remember, betts missed a lot of action this summer, which may also explain why he didn't get more carries. he did look good though--better than i remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 It was the first game of the season, and the first of his career as a Redskin. Lol. People are already fretting about whether his career is going to be shortened because he'll be overworked. I'm tending to think that fans on a message board probably aren't the only people who think of such things, and perhaps it's possible that Gibbs and the rest of the staff knows a whole heck of a lot about football and what to do in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Gibbs strikes me as a guy that listens to his players. He isn't so consumed by his ego that he feels he knows better then everyone else like nut Coughlin in NY. If Portis needs a less carries he'll get less carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Emmitt Smith - 5'10" and 216lbs - average of 22 or so touches a game Walter Payton - 5'10" and 200lbs - average of 23 or so touches a game Clinton Portis - 5'11" and 205lbs - currently averaging 22.23 touches a game for his career Questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I expect that if we have a similar situation, 5 minutes and we got the ball, usually we will see Betts. Right now, he may not be at 100-percent. Also, Joe Gibbs may have wanted to send a message to other teams we play that just because Betts comes in for Portis or Portis stays in, does not dictate the play called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 He also definitely sent a message to the league that Portis can carry the ball and pound between the tackles at crunch time. That will make other teams respect him in the backfield at the end of games on inside runs and maybe set some other things up in Gibbs' bag of tricks. It would suck to telegraph your plays completely based on personnel, particularly at the end of the game in crunch time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSchwartz Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I posted something similar in the other thread on this topic. What you have to look at is the fact that if Portis gets 29 carries in the first game then in order to get his average down 22 carries a game he has to carry the ball 21 times per game in the next nine. Or even less in a shorter time span. So in the first game, that might not be as important as the 9th game and certainly won't be as important as the 16th game, Portis carried the ball probalby more than he will the entire season. It seems like mismanagement to me. I would rather have him carry the ball 29 times in the 16th game that could mean playoffs or no playoffs than to have him worn down from carrying the ball too much early in the season. Would it have mattered to have Betts carrying the ball those last 6 carries. It's not like Portis was gobbling up yards at the end. Betts could have taken the pounding for those 1-2 yard gains. Betts proved early on that he could be effective enough that the Redskins would not have been at a huge disadvantage by putting Betts in there for some of those 4th quarter carries. That's all some of us are trying to say. Sometimes less is more when it comes to RBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSurina Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Didn't I hear during the game that Portis was under the weather with the flu on Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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