kleese Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 It's an awful disease, it really is. Well after the original virus is gone, it's effects still linger. Gibbs may be back, and Redskins fans may be yapping about a return to glory, but it's plain to see that many fans are still overpowered by the illness that infected them sometime around the Cardinals game at RFK in 1996. I've never seen a more collective "panic" than I see from my fellow fans at the first sign of trouble. I can't blame them though, I too fight those old demons. Let me explain something: It's fear. Plain old fear. Fear that not even Gibbs will be able to reverse the disaster that we've become since he left. All of you people predicting a "slow start." That's not realism talking, that's a defense mechanism. A way for you to write off a few bad outings. Many people seem to take the easy road-- the "we'll start slow, and then be really good late in the year" prediction, seems to be a common theme. But that's fear I tell you. Let's examine a few things: --Our run defense has been excellent this pre-season. Even last night, the Rams didn't run the ball until well after the first-team had been pulled. --Our defense overall has been great this pre-season. Holt torched them last night-- as I suspect he might do if it was a regular season game. He's the best WR in football for a reason. Also keep in mind that the Rams didn't really start moving the ball until our starting front 7 was removed from the game. Also keep in mind that Barrow, Lavar, and Daniels were back home. --We forced a TON of third and long situations-- and then broke down and gave up long conversions. That can't happen in the regular season and I don't think it will. We were as vanilla as could be last night. Art said it quite well, it's almost as if Williams and Gibbs WANTED to get torched last night-- they left the secondary on islands all night long against possibly the best passing team in the NFL. I would imagine that given a real game, we might make adjustments. --We are doing NOTHING from a strategic point on offense. Nothing. Again, to echo Art, we are flashing one or two new plays/formations per week, but that's about it. Coles and Gardner are getting pulled by the middle of the first quarter in every game. Portis is getting 3-4 carries and taking a seat. Our pass routes and shcemese seem to be high-school-eque thus far. Think that will continue? --The O line is protecting the QB. With rare exception, the O line is keeping our QB's upright. The run blocking is so-so, but again, the coach's aren't exactly helping them out. Don't forget, we played the majority of the game w/o Thomas and Samuels last night. --Collinsworth mentioned it and it's worth repeating. We drove the ball, took an early lead and stopped the Rams the first few possessions before Samuels got hurt. That seemed to take the life out of the team. Everyone was worried, I'm sure. In the pre-season, your thoughts shift from the game at hand to the potential injury. I think after that scare, Gibbs and co. more or less waived the white flag. --We know who our QB is going to be. Ramsey just doesn't look right. I think there's a good chance that sitting the bench for awhile will help him. Hopefully, he will be ready to go if Brunell gets injured and more so hopefully he'll be ready to REALLY compete for the job next year. Right now, Brunell commands the line much better, gets rid of the ball much faster, and keeps the chains moving more consistently. He's the starter, no doubt. --We weren't good last night. I'm not saying we were. But it really appeared as if the coach's wanted to hang the team out to dry on purpose-- not a bad strategy IMO. We actually outplayed them in the first quarter. Our CB's will get burned if we leave them on islands all day long against awesome WR's. I was a charter member of the "Champ is overrated" fan club long before he was a Bronco, and I stand by my assertion. However, I'm not a total fool-- there will be times this year when we miss him. I fully expect great WR's to occasionally beat our corners. However, I am confident that our defense overall be will a big surprise and that Williams will wind up being considered a stud coach if he isn't already. --One concern is along the O line. We need Samules and Thomas to be healthy. Jasen's injury sucks, but that's life-- every team will deal with a big injury or two. What we need is for the rest of the guys to stay healthy. With Samuels and Thomas, I will stick to my 10-6 expectations with hopes for 11-5. Without them, I'll lean more towards 8-8. The O line is huge for us this year. They've been solid thus far in pre-season and they will only get better as long our top guns stay on the field. --The early part of our schedule is easy. People think think we're going to start slow must think some pretty middling teams are going to beat us. Think we looked bad last night? The Bucs have looked horrendous in pre-season so far. That offense is in shambles. Who scares you? I can't think of one player that even an average defense would fear. They are still tough defensively, but not what they once were. The Bucs at home is a game every 8-8 team in the NFL should win. The Giants are in the same boat we are in terms of a new staff, new system, etc... so that convinient excuse won't fly against them. There's even a possibility that they could be starting a rookie QB. Their O line is a mess. I repsect Parcells and I respect the Cowboys recent dominance over us, but if we lose that game at home on Monday Night under that kind of emotion with Testaverde as the opposing QB, then this could be a long season. Must win game no matter if we're 2-0, 0-2, or 1-1 headed into it. After that, I could see us losing to the Browns and/or Ravens, but the schedule lightens up after that with the Bears, Packers at home, Lions, and Bengals. Not easy, but certainly not a murder's row of games. Our toughest games (both Philly games, at Dallas) come very late in the season. By no means am I predicting a cakewalk this year. But I do EXPECT to go 10-6 and will be disappointed with anything less. THAT'S how we have to start thinking again. We are not flawless in terms of talent, but overall, this is a talented team with a talented staff. But I guess the Norvitis will linger until the results provide a cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Originally posted by kleese --The early part of our schedule is easy. People think think we're going to start slow must think some pretty middling teams are going to beat us. Think we looked bad last night? The Bucs have looked horrendous in pre-season so far. That offense is in shambles. Who scares you? I can't think of one player that even an average defense would fear. They are still tough defensively, but not what they once were. The Bucs at home is a game every 8-8 team in the NFL should win. The Giants are in the same boat we are in terms of a new staff, new system, etc... so that convinient excuse won't fly against them. There's even a possibility that they could be starting a rookie QB. Their O line is a mess. I repsect Parcells and I respect the Cowboys recent dominance over us, but if we lose that game at home on Monday Night under that kind of emotion with Testaverde as the opposing QB, then this could be a long season. Must win game no matter if we're 2-0, 0-2, or 1-1 headed into it. After that, I could see us losing to the Browns and/or Ravens, but the schedule lightens up after that with the Bears, Packers at home, Lions, and Bengals. Not easy, but certainly not a murder's row of games. Our toughest games (both Philly games, at Dallas) come very late in the season. By no means am I predicting a cakewalk this year. But I do EXPECT to go 10-6 and will be disappointed with anything less. THAT'S how we have to start thinking again. We are not flawless in terms of talent, but overall, this is a talented team with a talented staff. But I guess the Norvitis will linger until the results provide a cure. I think its way too early to begin predicting wins and losses like this. Most of the other things you said, I do agree with. But as of right now, we're still a 5-11 team. I know we all want to believe that Gibbs is going to make the offesne come together, but as of this preseason, it hasn't been too great. So other teams may be calling us a easy victory the same way you are. Let the wins and losses be decided on the field. I doubt many are showing anything in the preseason. Lets wait at least until week one before we start stating challenges of the other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Basically what you are saying is "it's preseason". No reason to panic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinGodfather Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I concur it is Preseason and nothing counts...just wait till our defense begins to mesh together with barrow and daniels and LAAAVAR back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Kleese, Yours is a good post. But, I'm one of those guys who feels we'll start slow. It's not a remnant of Norvitis though. Gibbs offense is tremendously detailed. It's simple in that we will run the same play over and over. It's just complex from the standpoint that everyone's moving all the time. Our blocking schemes are complex, requiring multiple linemen moving multiple directions. It takes time to sync this stuff up. I would be THRILLED with this team against our opening schedule in Year 2. In Year 1, though, I can see us dropping two or three games in the first six just while things are coming together. It is something I hope is wrong and I think there are reasons to believe something more powerful early is possible. Trust me though. I know Norvitis. It's out of me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 I can see us dropping two or three games in the first six just while things are coming together. I wouldn't consider 4-2 a slow start. I'm not expecting us to FLY out of the gates, but I think our first three games are VERY winnable (games we can say we "should" win), and those three games are followed by 3-4 games in a row that are a bit more difficult but not anything special. The "tougher" games we play early in the year are at home. 4-2 would actually be my guess right now. When I hear people say they think we will start slow, I think 2-4 or maybe 3-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Kleese, Thanks for the good post. No Norvitis for me. More like a case of Gibss Euphoria. I also think that the Skins go 10-6 if the oline stays healthy.I actually think will win games early in the season, and then hit a slump around week 5 with Bal. Art is correct about the complex formations, and the team needing time to gel, but I think in spite of that, we'll win at least 3 of our first four. Here's why: 1. Gibbs is a bit of a mystery to most of todays coachs. Most of these guys have never face Coach Joe. Sure they can study old films, but Gibbs is going to bring some new wrinkles to the offense, and nobody's seen them yet. There's a reason why we're so vanilla in the preseason. I also don't think there are many coaches in the league with Gibbs' strategic abilities. Bellichic and Parcells are really the only 2. Martz and Reid don't stand a chance against Gibbs if they make the kind of boneheaded moves we've seen them both make time and time again. 2. The defense will keep us in it. The keys here are Noble and Griffin. So far in their very limited action, they have looked mostly good. Griffin looks like he's got something to prove, and Noble did suck up a couple of double teams last night. Absolutely a substantial improvement over last year's play in the middle. I do think that Lavar, Smoot, Springs, and Taylor are all going to get toasted with somewhat regularity, but I also think these guys are going to produce tons of takeways. Remember how many times this defense gave the offense incredible field position last year only to watch Spurrier eff it up. With the additions of playmakers Taylor and Springs, and the agressive defensive schemes, this defense has the potential to create a lot of turnovers. 3. Learning the system. Think Carolina early last season. They just pounded away and played good defense. Every once in a while, they'd connect on a nice play action. That's the game plan early this season. Run, run, and run some more. We will see Gibbs run it up the gut on third and 2 and guys on here will be freaking out. By running the ball heavily Gibbs will give the offense time to get into rythem with the shifts and so forth. 4. The opponents. Here's the bonus factor. Our first 4 opponents, Tampa, the Giants, Dallas, and and Cleveland range from suspect to horrible against the run. This absolutely fits into Gibbs' gameplan of pounding the rock early in the season. Obviously Dallas presents the most problems with their defense, but I think the "MNF against Dallas return of Gibbs mojo" will be too much for Dallas. Plus, I'm going to that game, 50 yardline lower level, and The last 4 Skins games I've been to were all wins. It's destiny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Originally posted by kleese I wouldn't consider 4-2 a slow start. I'm not expecting us to FLY out of the gates, but I think our first three games are VERY winnable (games we can say we "should" win), and those three games are followed by 3-4 games in a row that are a bit more difficult but not anything special. The "tougher" games we play early in the year are at home. 4-2 would actually be my guess right now. When I hear people say they think we will start slow, I think 2-4 or maybe 3-3. Kleese, I think we'll start 2-4. I think we'll drop most of that just through the process of coming together as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skin_fan_nc852004 Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 as long as we do alott better then last year ill be happy.. 8-8 or more is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Never really had any lasting effects, but if I did, this right here took care of them. "I’d just like to introduce the head coach and team president of the Washington Redskins, Joe Gibbs.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Originally posted by Art Kleese, Yours is a good post. But, I'm one of those guys who feels we'll start slow. It's not a remnant of Norvitis though. Gibbs offense is tremendously detailed. It's simple in that we will run the same play over and over. It's just complex from the standpoint that everyone's moving all the time. Our blocking schemes are complex, requiring multiple linemen moving multiple directions. It takes time to sync this stuff up. I would be THRILLED with this team against our opening schedule in Year 2. In Year 1, though, I can see us dropping two or three games in the first six just while things are coming together. It is something I hope is wrong and I think there are reasons to believe something more powerful early is possible. Trust me though. I know Norvitis. It's out of me . We almost have to start slow. New coaches, new system, old players unlearning bad habits...it all adds up to a slow start. To expect the team to shoot out of the starting gate at mid-season form is not fair to the team. Does a slow start mean losses? Does a slow start mean that the Skins won't be good for the first 3 or 4 weeks? Does a slow start mean they'll get better as the season goes on? Possibly. Is it possible that we'll be in a close game and end up not winning because someone makes a mental error that they would not make in week 10? Maybe even probably. This is part of my definition of a slow start. But I do not really think that we will go 0-5 like '81 The Skins will be better than last year, right out of the starting gate. And continue to get better as the season goes on. That is the other part of my definition of a slow start. Of course, that can be said of a lot of teams. [line] We all have higher expectations [super Bowl] this year, we are not sure how much higher to make them. With Gibbs [super Bowl] back in the picture [super Bowl], naturally, everyone's first thought is playoffs [super Bowl]. Come on, admit it. [super Bowl] [super Bowl][super Bowl][super Bowl][super Bowl][super Bowl] We temper our thoughts with "slow start"; we try to remember 1981 (0-5), but no matter how hard we try, we can't get [super Bowl] out of our heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigkatt Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Originally posted by Art Kleese, I think we'll start 2-4. I think we'll drop most of that just through the process of coming together as a team. So your saying this team will have the worse start of any Joe Gibbs team other than his first year when they were 1-5?? sounds like Norvitus to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Originally posted by Hog53 So your saying this team will have the worse start of any Joe Gibbs team other than his first year when they were 1-5?? sounds like Norvitus to me. Uh, yeah. I think this team is better than just about any other team Gibbs has ever had. From a talent standpoint relative to the league, it's probably the best team he's ever had. When Gibbs started here, he had a system he wanted to run, found it wasn't working, and adapted to his team. I suspect he'll adapt quickly here, but, he can't really know what his guys can do out there yet, because he hasn't actually done anything to see that during the preseason. It'll take time for Gibbs to get in tune with his players and it will take time for his players to get in tune with him. It's this stretch of games that tempers my thoughts as to what Gibbs can accomplish. I've said for some time, if this happened to be his second year back and he has this team, I'd be very bullish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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