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Question for NL Hold'em players ...


Henry

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Guest Duckus

Yeah, but if you describe him as a "loose/aggressive" player I would call and not put him on AA,KK, QQ. Those are hard hands to put on someone pre-flop.

Funny story about pocket pairs is I was playing in a tourney and I made it to the very end. One on one, our stacks are about even and I hit pocket KKs. We go back and forth raising each other pre-flop until my opponent calls all in. I of course call with KK and he flips over AA. On the flop I hit 2 Kings, to give me for of a kind to win the tourney. When I saw those AAs those I was for sure I was done. Best way I have ever won a tourney.

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Originally posted by Duckus

Funny story about pocket pairs is I was playing in a tourney and I made it to the very end. One on one, our stacks are about even and I hit pocket KKs. We go back and forth raising each other pre-flop until my opponent calls all in. I of course call with KK and he flips over AA. On the flop I hit 2 Kings, to give me for of a kind to win the tourney. When I saw those AAs those I was for sure I was done. Best way I have ever won a tourney.

Well, they say you've got to both get a suck-out and survive one to win a tournament. :)

The other night I had KK and bet them hard pre-flop. Guy to me left calls me (Turns out he had QQ) and everyone else folds but one other guy.

Flop come J 3 3 rainbow and I'm thinking noone still in has a 3 so I go all in. QQ folds and the other guy calls and turns over J3. Knocked me out, the damn calling station. :)

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my first post ever here, but the fact that no mentioned the following made me chime in.

if the "big stack" who you're describing was really "loose/aggressive," he would have/should have raised instead of limping in with anything even close to the hands that you're worried about. if he's as "good" as you intimate, than he would play his big stack properly. the only concern should be if he was in first position, where a check raise with a massive starting hand is possible. otherwise, you cant put a good player on that hand.

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Originally posted by Duckus

Yeah, but if you describe him as a "loose/aggressive" player I would call and not put him on AA,KK, QQ. Those are hard hands to put on someone pre-flop.

My thinking was he was 50-50 to have one of those hands. Considering that even if he DIDN'T have one of those hands my jacks might not hold up, I didn't like the odds.

But like I said I'm still not sure I should have laid it down.

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Originally posted by agoldman

my first post ever here, but the fact that no mentioned the following made me chime in.

if the "big stack" who you're describing was really "loose/aggressive," he would have/should have raised instead of limping in with anything even close to the hands that you're worried about. if he's as "good" as you intimate, than he would play his big stack properly. the only concern should be if he was in first position, where a check raise with a massive starting hand is possible. otherwise, you cant put a good player on that hand.

Good point. Afterwards it occured to me he may have thought I was bluffing, seeing all the limpers, and was simply trying to keep me honest.

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Just read this thread.

It's hard to lay down that hand... but let's say someone else on the table folded a jack and low card. 10 player table, I'd think the chances are there.

Correct though, if he plays loose and doesn't check raise or bluff all in very often, then why didn't he just raise instead of going all in?

Since everyone else folded, I doubt they would have been holding AKQs, J on the other hand. Either you call his bluff if you feel that he would or you fold.

That's a strong move he made to call the big blind and then raise (like a check raise due to the low big blind), tourney I assume? I think you made the right move if it was early... No problem in keeping your stack of chips and getting him later. Like I said it's tough to fold.

Boy I wish we could get an extreme members game going.

That's why they call it gambling...

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You made the right move. It sounds like it was your first instinct. I would have done the same thing given the circumstances.

Still bugs you though.. Laying that down. You should have asked to see the flop anyway since it was a home game, at least you would have slept better. :)

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Henry,

1) When he bet all in were you the only one left to act?

If you were not it is a super safe fold.

If you are it is questionable but I think you hit the nail on the head with yorur earlier point. You have no redraws. You don't usually want to go all in drawing dead. you made a pretty strong play with the raise out of the big blind, and to come over the top like that means that there is no way he is drawing dead against you.

At best you are even money with him, at worst you are facing a very weak redraw. Those aren't the kinds of bets you want to make unless you are at a very tough table. If this guy gets in the habit of strong arming the pots by going all in with weak hands, wait for the aces and really crack him. The blinds are so small that it just doesn't make sense to call in my mind.

(but then again I mostly play limit)

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These are the Rules to Texas Hold'em.

If people limp in make them suffer....

If a guy that has everthing going his way goes all in: Step back and re-evaluation your odds...

If they are great, go for it..

If they are average play the other average of Live to go all in when you KNOW your going to win and take his butt out later....

The website you mentioned goes all in on every other play so its hard anyway...

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Originally posted by Henry

No, this wasn't a tournament. And it was early in the evening. I really didn't want to lose my whole stack one hour in. I guess that what it boiled down to. :)

Thats what it always boils down to when your playing sid games with friends.

By the way I have been playing on Full Tilt.com and loving it.

They actually have Razz sit&go tables.:laugh:

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Originally posted by ShonyX

I think that people who needlessly use poker terminology are a-holes. There, I said it. I know somebody else was thinking it, too.

And only call if you are prepared to lose.

People 'needlessly' use football terminology here all the time and that doesn't make them a-holes.

If you said our LT led the league in pancakes, our RB got 5.5 ypc and our QB had a 79.5 PR, someone who doesn't follow football would think you were speaking Greek. Does that make you a jerk, or are you simply using terms you know your fellow fans understand?

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I wouldn't have called that. And that's just me. Well... maybe not just me.

Fishooks or Jacks are a pretty strong hand, but they're not a hand I'd be willing to go in and be willing to potentially go out on pre-flop. There are too many cards that can beat them for my liking. Sure, that's playing a little tight, but I'd rather chuck the cards and play for more. I'd rather go in with AK, or KQ, than Jacks. The fact of it is, even if you didn't call, laying down is probably the right move in the situation. He built up a large stack of chips, easily larger than you for a reason. Maybe he was being lucky that night, maybe not. But the question I've got is, in the hands he won did he have the cards?

If he had the cards most of the time earlier, you give him the right to buy the pot occasionally. Especially since there are still other players in the game.

That's a hard laydown, but sometimes you gotta take one to hang around.

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I'd call as well, especially before the flop. Big stacks can make big bluffs too. But you are right to analyze the player because holdem is definitely made for beating the player not the cards mostly...although we've all been killed on the river as well.

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If you were the last to act and made a raise like that, he may have thought you were trying to steal the pot, and decided to muscle you out. Like people said before, unless he was in really early position, a player this aggressive would probably have raised already, instead of slowplaying. However, after sitting with this player and watching his moves, if your instinct was to fold, then I would have to think that it was a good move. I would personally think that given the information, you had him beat. Maybe a low pocket pair or a couple of face cards and he didn't want a call from you.

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Henry ... getting to this discussion late but for what its worth, you were absolutely correct in folding to that raise.

Even maniacs don't often go all in pre-flop without some kind of hand. JJ is a nice hand, but pre-flop it is vulnerable. I would want a set before calling that "all in."

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I would have called him. Considering he has the big stack, hes trying to bully everyone around, and buy the pots. Thats what I did when i won an 11 man 10 dollar buy in game. Also, if this is pre flop, he couldn't have a much better hand then you. Its a coin flip situation. But theres nothing wrong with being conservative, (Bush-Cheney '04 :wavetowel ). Anyway, who ended up winning the game?

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Originally posted by SmootSkins21

Its a coin flip situation.

I don't like to bet my whole stack on coin flip situations ... at least not against a single opponent. I prefer to be the favorite. Pot odds allow for it if you can triple up or better, but of course then the chances of a better hand coming up against you is greater.

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Thanks for chiming in Brave. I was hoping I'd hear from you on this one.

I ended up ahead about $10. Not bad, not great. Big Stack ended up ahead, but lower than $55. I don't remember exactly how he did. He left early, the ****. :)

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