codeorama Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Cheney's Gay Marriage Comments Draw Fire 37 minutes ago By TODD DVORAK, Associated Press Writer DAVENPORT, Iowa - Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites), whose daughter Mary is a lesbian, drew criticism from both proponents and foes of gay marriage Tuesday after he distanced himself from President Bush (news - web sites)'s call for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage. At a campaign rally in this Mississippi River town, Cheney spoke supportively about gay relationships, saying "freedom means freedom for everyone," when asked about his stand on gay marriage. "Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter. "With the respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone ... People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to. "The question that comes up with the issue of marriage is what kind of official sanction or approval is going to be granted by government? Historically, that's been a relationship that has been handled by the states. The states have made that fundamental decision of what constitutes a marriage," he said. Bush backs a constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage, a move Cheney says was prompted by various judicial rulings, including the action in Massachusetts that made gay marriage legal. "I think his perception was that the courts, in effect, were beginning to change, without allowing the people to be involved," Cheney said. "The courts were making the judgment for the entire country." Addressing Bush's position on the amendment, Cheney said, "at this point, save my own preference, as I have stated, but the president makes policy for the administration. He's made it clear that he does, in fact, support a constitutional amendment on this issue." Those comments drew criticism from the conservative Family Research Council, with President Tony Perkins saying, "I find it hard to believe the vice president would stray from the administration's position on defense policy or tax policy. For many pro-family voters, protecting traditional marriage ranks ahead of the economy and job creation as a campaign issue." Perkins added that if Cheney sees a problem with activist judges, "then how can he not endorse the same solution the president and his pro-family allies have proposed? We urge Vice President Cheney to support President Bush and a constitutional amendment on marriage." Steven Fisher, spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, a gay and lesbian advocacy group, said Cheney's remarks show a stark difference with Bush's efforts "to put discrimination in the Constitution." "President Bush is feeling the heat. The administration has been using gay Americans to drive a wedge into the electorate. There are millions of American families who have gay family members and friends, who are offended by the president's use of discrimination," Fisher said. Last month, Lynne Cheney said states should have the final say over the legal status of personal relationships, a comment that came just days before the Senate failed to back the ban. Cheney said the amendment did not have the votes to pass, but he also said the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which President Clinton (news - web sites) signed into law in 1996, may be enough. "Most states have addressed this and there is on the books the federal statute, the Defense of Marriage Act, passed in 1996, and to date, it has not been successfully challenged in the courts and may be sufficient to resolve the issue," the vice president said. The Cheneys have two daughters, both of whom are working on the campaign. Mary Cheney is director of vice presidential operations for the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign. She held a public role as her father's assistant in the 2000 campaign and helped the GOP recruit gay voters during the 2002 midterm elections. During the 2000 campaign, vice presidential candidate Dick Cheney took the position that states should decide legal issues about personal relationships and that people should be free to enter relationships of their choosing. Sens. John Kerry (news - web sites) of Massachusetts and John Edwards (news - web sites) of North Carolina, oppose the amendment. The Democratic candidates also oppose gay marriage, but defend a gay couple's rights to the same legal protections as those conferred in marriage. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040824/ap_on_el_pr/cheney_gays_4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Wow. I actually think that Cheney's statements were perfectly reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted August 25, 2004 Author Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black Wow. I actually think that Cheney's statements were perfectly reasonable. I've always believed that many people that have really strong opinions on something often change their tune when it affects them personally. IMO, there's no reason that someone who is a conservative can't support some liberal topics and vice versa. I don't care for the opinions that are made just because that how I'm supposed to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by codeorama IMO, there's no reason that someone who is a conservative can't support some liberal topics and vice versa. I don't care for the opinions that are made just because that how I'm supposed to think. Agreed. While I'm certainly left of center socially and a Keynesian when it comes to the economy, I think the Democrats are far too wedded to entitlements and government programs that aren't working. I would be happier if we cut social programs that are not achieving the desired results (to be honest, most of them) and used the resulting surplus to pay down debt and reduce taxes marginally. Voting Democrat will do distressingly little to help that (and Badnarik certainly isn't the solution ). When Cheney makes statements like these, it gives me hope that there is worth in voting for the person rather than the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicRod Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Wow, I thought they hid his daughter during the election. This is not good for GW and his gay marriage ammendment. The GOP won't like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 I would hope the GOP would accept different opinions on different topics and not let any ONE topic end up the one all be all of your vote... Just like the Dems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semiskin Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 I'm still kind of undecided on the whole issue but I kind of have to applaud Cheney for saying what he said, in fact I think he's dead on and not just in regards to gay people. Interesting to see how this plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Of course Bush being Cheney's puppet, I guess they both completely agree, right, right? :doh: Then again this isn't all that different than Bush's position. As Cheney has said, the only reason that Bush is even pushing any sort of constitutional amendment is out of fear of the heavy hand of the sate and possibly in the future, federal courts on this issue, Cheney apparantly does not agree with Bush that the issue is as urgent as he and most Republicans believe it is, but he does not lay on the slander and character assassination tactics that a lot of opponants have on this issue to ry to make Bush's position looks crazy or unreasonable, when it is perfectly reasonable on a stricly legal basis (not tkaing morality into account). But then again we all know that Dick Cheney is Satan Incaranate right everybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 In a perfect world, I would like to know what Cheney's opinion would have been had he not had a gay daughter, but of course we will never, ever know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan44 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by visionary "Of course Bush being Cheney's puppet, I guess they both completely agree, right, right? :doh: Then again this isn't all that different than Bush's position. As Cheney has said, the only reason that Bush is even pushing any sort of constitutional amendment is out of fear of the heavy hand of the sate and possibly in the future, federal courts on this issue. Cheney apparantly does not agree with Bush that the issue is as urgent as he and most Republicans believe it is, but he does not lay on the slander and character assassination tactics that a lot of opponants have on this issue to ry to make Bush's position looks crazy or unreasonable when it is perfectly reasonable on a stricly legal basis .". ############################ Damn Vis when you let loose you nail 'em good. The proletariat has their point of view ..and as subjective as it may be Bush can and does have his own point of view...not someone with a breifcase that pulls out some pre ordained mantra...the guy is clearly misunderestimated...lol pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black Agreed. While I'm certainly left of center socially and a Keynesian when it comes to the economy, I think the Democrats are far too wedded to entitlements and government programs that aren't working. I would be happier if we cut social programs that are not achieving the desired results (to be honest, most of them) and used the resulting surplus to pay down debt and reduce taxes marginally. Voting Democrat will do distressingly little to help that (and Badnarik certainly isn't the solution ). When Cheney makes statements like these, it gives me hope that there is worth in voting for the person rather than the party. I think many conservatives would agree to this position if they didn't believe it was going to spread to all the states via the courts (which the VP alluded to). If they want to have homosexual marriage in Massachusetts or California or whatever then just let the people decide. Likewise, if another state doesn't want to have it then they too should be free to pursue that course of action. Unfortunately, the "states' rights" approach does become problematic WRT "full faith and credit" and so forth. I think it is Zuck who has stated that the state just shouldn't even recognize marriage at all. In the end, I think that is the camp I will find myself in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman56 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black In a perfect world, I would like to know what Cheney's opinion would have been had he not had a gay daughter, but of course we will never, ever know that. Is there any doubt in your mind that he would be against gay marriage if he did not spawn a lesbian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 It is the responsibility of the courts to interpret the laws AND interpret the relevant constitution (state or federal). I am thankful that, when the Supreme Court made its ruling in Brown v. Board of Education, the nation did not pass a Separate But Equal Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black It is the responsibility of the courts to interpret the laws AND interpret the relevant constitution (state or federal). I am thankful that, when the Supreme Court made its ruling in Brown v. Board of Education, the nation did not pass a Separate But Equal Amendment. I hear what you are saying and don't disagree with your point. I don't want separate but equal or individual states determining their own rules on slavery either. That is why I find this issue vexing. I have strong beliefs on preserving tradtional marriage but under the Constitution it becomes difficult to "split the baby". We are down to the age old dilemma of the Constitution of where the Federal and State lines are drawn and how such lines affect the rights of the individual. That is why I am leaning towards the approach of states not recognizing marriage at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 I am happy to leave marriage to the church/temple/synagogue/mosque and have the states recognize only civil unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballplaya0 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by Hitman56 Is there any doubt in your mind that he would be against gay marriage if he did not spawn a lesbian? Nope. If his daughter were straight, he would follow the party line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by ballplaya0 Nope. If his daughter were straight, he would follow the party line. My 5 year old girl Carolaine isnt gay. My 2 year old tomorrow girl Taylor isnt gay. Does that mean I have to tow the party line? Or can I have independant thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black Wow. I actually think that Cheney's statements were perfectly reasonable. Most of what Cheney says is very reasonable.... if you pay attention to what he is saying. I for one dont agree with him, not because I think a constitutional ammendment is a good thing (i dont) but because it might be the only way to protect marriage from over active courts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by RicRod Wow, I thought they hid his daughter during the election. This is not good for GW and his gay marriage ammendment. The GOP won't like this. The admendment was only for his voters, he knew it had no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Wanting the states to decide for themselves is the only fair solution for all. Amendments and court rulings are little more then end around plays to supress the democratic process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidFan Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Cheney held the stance that Gay Marriage should be handled by the states back in 2000 during their campaign run, and Bush held the stance that he would not be involved in nation building ...citing that if America was to tell another country it had to become a democracy it would be an "arrogant" thing to do. Just more politicking back from the hard right before an election until they take office again and serve the religious right and others. Granted for Cheney he said this before but I haven't been listening to his speeches in the past year during all the marriage uproar if he stayed consistent or he supported the Federal Gov't amending the Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 I'm right of center and completely against Gay marriiage. It is against my Christian beliefs. However, I certainly do belive that people have the right to enter into homosexual relationships. Choice is God given, regardless of if your choice is right or wrong. I would be no more supportive of Gay marriage if one of my 3 children turns out to be Gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by Destino Wanting the states to decide for themselves is the only fair solution for all. Amendments and court rulings are little more then end around plays to supress the democratic process. I would agree completely except for the full faith and credit clause in the constitution, meaning that once reckognized by the courts in another state they have to be recognized by all courts in all states Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by RicRod Wow, I thought they hid his daughter during the election. This is not good for GW and his gay marriage ammendment. The GOP won't like this. Actually Cheneys daughter attended the 2000 GOP convention and sat with her mother, Cheney spoke about his daughter in his speach during the 2000 convention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by stevenaa I'm right of center and completely against Gay marriiage. It is against my Christian beliefs. However, I certainly do belive that people have the right to enter into homosexual relationships. Choice is God given, regardless of if your choice is right or wrong. I would be no more supportive of Gay marriage if one of my 3 children turns out to be Gay. did or do you have sex before marriage, then that is against your beliefs as well it is easy to say IF your children, but if it was reality I can't see you say to your child that they can not be happy and not marry, heck if your best friend was gay I don't see how you would be against him being married my issue with religion is most people choose what they want to follow, not follow what they are supposed to according to their religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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