SEF Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Duncan Reagan defeated communism Quick, someone call the Chinese and Cubans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Rock-Bufford Your breakdown of Presidents is scary if that's all you believe about them. Of course thats not all I beleive about them, but you know what I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by LC80 Quick, someone call the Chinese and Cubans. I guess you are still holding out hope. The only viable communist system was the soviet union. China is already almost fully capitalistic. It is only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Duncan Reagan defeated communism This is far from the truth, I got in an argument with Thew about it the other day before he died. Out of respect for the man, I will keep my feelings aside today, the day that he is buried. Bring it up another time, because you are completely wrong on the issue, and in fact he almost caused us to go bankrupt in his process of econimic reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by chomerics This is far from the truth, I got in an argument with Thew about it the other day before he died. Out of respect for the man, I will keep my feelings aside today, the day that he is buried. Bring it up another time, because you are completely wrong on the issue, and in fact he almost caused us to go bankrupt in his process of econimic reform. Margret Thatcher disagrees with you http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13125658,00.html THATCHER PAYS TRIBUTE Here is the full text of Margaret Thatcher's eulogy to Ronald Reagan: "We have lost a great president, a great American, and a great man. And I have lost a dear friend. "In his lifetime Ronald Reagan was such a cheerful and invigorating presence that it was easy to forget what daunting historic tasks he set himself. "He sought to mend America's wounded spirit, to restore the strength of the free world, and to free the slaves of communism. These were causes hard to accomplish and heavy with risk. "Yet they were pursued with almost a lightness of spirit. For Ronald Reagan also embodied another great cause - what Arnold Bennett once called 'the great cause of cheering us all up'. "His politics had a freshness and optimism that won converts from every class and every nation - and ultimately from the very heart of the evil empire. "Yet his humour often had a purpose beyond humour. In the terrible hours after the attempt on his life, his easy jokes gave reassurance to an anxious world. 'Grace under pressure' "They were evidence that in the aftermath of terror and in the midst of hysteria, one great heart at least remained sane and jocular. They were truly grace under pressure. "And perhaps they signified grace of a deeper kind. Ronnie himself certainly believed that he had been given back his life for a purpose. "As he told a priest after his recovery 'Whatever time I've got left now belongs to the Big Fella Upstairs'. "And surely it is hard to deny that Ronald Reagan's life was providential, when we look at what he achieved in the eight years that followed. "Others prophesied the decline of the West; he inspired America and its allies with renewed faith in their mission of freedom. "Others saw only limits to growth; he transformed a stagnant economy into an engine of opportunity. "Others hoped, at best, for an uneasy cohabitation with the Soviet Union; he won the Cold War - not only without firing a shot, but also by inviting enemies out of their fortress and turning them into friends. "I cannot imagine how any diplomat, or any dramatist, could improve on his words to Mikhail Gorbachev at the Geneva summit: `Let me tell you why it is we distrust you.' Those words are candid and tough and they cannot have been easy to hear. "But they are also a clear invitation to a new beginning and a new relationship that would be rooted in trust. "We live today in the world that Ronald Reagan began to reshape with those words. It is a very different world with different challenges and new dangers. "All in all, however, it is one of greater freedom and prosperity, one more hopeful than the world he inherited on becoming president. 'A great president' "As Prime Minister, I worked closely with Ronald Reagan for eight of the most important years of all our lives. We talked regularly both before and after his presidency. And I have had time and cause to reflect on what made him a great president. "Ronald Reagan knew his own mind. He had firm principles - and, I believe, right ones. He expounded them clearly, he acted upon them decisively. "When the world threw problems at the White House, he was not baffled, or disorientated, or overwhelmed. He knew almost instinctively what to do. "When his aides were preparing option papers for his decision, they were able to cut out entire rafts of proposals that they knew 'the Old Man' would never wear. The two had a powerful working relationship "When his allies came under Soviet or domestic pressure, they could look confidently to Washington for firm leadership. "And when his enemies tested American resolve, they soon discovered that his resolve was firm and unyielding. "Yet his ideas, though clear, were never simplistic. He saw the many sides of truth. "Yes, he warned that the Soviet Union had an insatiable drive for military power and territorial expansion; but he also sensed it was being eaten away by systemic failures impossible to reform. "Yes, he did not shrink from denouncing Moscow's 'evil empire'. But he realised that a man of goodwill might nonetheless emerge from within its dark corridors. "So the President resisted Soviet expansion and pressed down on Soviet weakness at every point until the day came when communism began to collapse beneath the combined weight of these pressures and its own failures. "And when a man of goodwill did emerge from the ruins, President Reagan stepped forward to shake his hand and to offer sincere cooperation. 'Large-hearted magnanimity' "Nothing was more typical of Ronald Reagan than that large-hearted magnanimity - and nothing was more American. "Therein lies perhaps the final explanation of his achievements. Ronald Reagan carried the American people with him in his great endeavours because there was perfect sympathy between them. "He and they loved America and what it stands for - freedom and opportunity for ordinary people. "As an actor in Hollywood's golden age, he helped to make the American dream live for millions all over the globe. His own life was a fulfilment of that dream. "He never succumbed to the embarrassment some people feel about an honest expression of love of country. "He was able to say 'God Bless America' with equal fervour in public and in private. And so he was able to call confidently upon his fellow-countrymen to make sacrifices for America - and to make sacrifices for those who looked to America for hope and rescue. "With the lever of American patriotism, he lifted up the world. "And so today the world - in Prague, in Budapest, in Warsaw, in Sofia, in Bucharest, in Kiev and in Moscow itself - the world mourns the passing of the Great Liberator and echoes his prayer 'God Bless America'. 'Private happiness' "Ronald Reagan's life was rich not only in public achievement, but also in private happiness. Indeed, his public achievements were rooted in his private happiness. "The great turning point of his life was his meeting and marriage with Nancy. "On that we have the plain testimony of a loving and grateful husband: `Nancy came along and saved my soul'. We share her grief today. But we also share her pride - and the grief and pride of Ronnie's children. "For the final years of his life, Ronnie's mind was clouded by illness. That cloud has now lifted. He is himself again - more himself than at any time on this earth. For we may be sure that the Big Fella Upstairs never forgets those who remember Him. "And as the last journey of this faithful pilgrim took him beyond the sunset, and as heaven's morning broke, I like to think - in the words of Bunyan - that 'all the trumpets sounded on the other side'. "We here still move in twilight. But we have one beacon to guide us that Ronald Reagan never had. We have his example. Let us give thanks today for a life that achieved so much for all of God's children." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 So does Lech Walensa. So does Gorbachev So does Brian Mulroney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sick Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Sarge I seriously doubt Dan Blather or whatever liberal hack that replaces him will cover Klintons escapades with Monica in the White House. Or his selling of nuke secrets to China. Or his selling of rocket tech to China. Or his violation of international law by bombing Kosovo. Then it will be the mean ol conservatives picking on poor ol Bubba again. Of course, I'm not sure what they'll report on, because I honestly can't think of a thing he did for the economy, national defense or foreign affairs. Oh, and as for AIDS. IT was little understood from the early to late 80's and was mainly confined to homo's in San Franfreako. Why should the gov spend money on something that was preventable with a behavior change? "Iran/ Contra trading for weapons" Not quite sure if you mean the Iranian hostage thing or Iran Contra. Gues Reagan wasn't the only one "confused" As far as Iran was concerned, Reagan, when he was President elect, was scaring the hell out of the ragheads in the news, calling them "barbarians" and all kinds of stuff. A distinct change from carters bowing down to them for over a year. And as for the Contras, they helped rid a Central American country of a communist government. You know, the same kind of government the Kruchev sprang from and declared at the UN while banging his shoe on the podium that the world would be communist one day. I saw in the news where his son became an American citizen today. Talk about irony. If you really think the media will gloss over Monicagate when Clinton passes on, you are truly clueless. AIDS was a new disease. Maybe they could've spent some money in bathhouses or whatever to say "There is something new and scary out there. Use a rubber." But that would somehow be akin to saying the homosexual lifestyle is okay. Can't do that. There is no way in he11 that he spent 6 billion on AIDS. And the guy's name was Kruschev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 There is no way in he11 that he spent 6 billion on AIDS. want to make a bet about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Kilmer17 There is no way in he11 that he spent 6 billion on AIDS. want to make a bet about that? Put away your e-penis and just post the numbers. I'm very interested in seeing figures that show 6 billion spent on AIDS, and not general research that may have included AIDS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 I wouldn't have cared if he didn't spend a dime on AIDS. It was the result of pervs having deviant sex in bath houses. Why should I or anyone else pay for that? You want ot have homo sex, pay to find your own cure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sick Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by NavyDave Jackson's Ward Revisionist history again huh? President Reagan administration spent over 6 billion for a disease that has civil rights status and can be prevented by not being wrecklessly promiscuos and or deviant. The spending wasnt kept in check by Democratic controlled Congress who spent more that what was taking in. I didnt see Iran Contra as a scandal I personally saw it as brilliant. Stop communism in Central america ie nicaragua and keep stability in the middle east between a scorpion and a snake Revisionist history or a full account of the good and bad of a sometimes clueless president? I like how you blame the AIDS thing on Congress. I guess Clinton wasn't around then to blame it on. And what, pray tell, does "civil rights status" mean in reference to the AIDS epidemic? People with AIDS didn't have to sit on the back of the bus or use separate water fountains? Surprise, surprise that you would support illegal operations in some foreign country. Who needs that pesky Constitution? Looks like the fear tactics worked. The Nicaraguans are coming, the Nicaraguans are coming!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Sarge I wouldn't have cared if he didn't spend a dime on AIDS. It was the result of pervs having deviant sex in bath houses. Why should I or anyone else pay for that? You want ot have homo sex, pay to find your own cure wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Jackson's Ward Surprise, surprise that you would support illegal operations in some foreign country. Who needs that pesky Constitution? Looks like the fear tactics worked. The Nicaraguans are coming, the Nicaraguans are coming!!! You should read the Monroe Doctrine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 How about his covert military operations in defiance of your constitution? That whole Iran-Contra trading weapons for hostages, that was real "classy", huh? More revisionists history here. It was not Reagan himself who authorized the covert military operations... it was an over ambitious underling names Ollie North. Reagan took responsibility for it... as true great men should. The bottom line is... historians, analyst, political gurus can debate his administration and his policy... but for god's sake wait until the ceremony and memorial services are over. Could they not have waited a week.... until he was placed in the ground before back-biting and carping on his perceived weaknesses and wrong-doings? What's evident here is that the Left can't stand the attention the Right is getting with the passing of a former US President. They can't stand to have the spotlight shined on an administration that turned around the debacle of the previous administration and had the United States re-emerging as a political and economic force on the world stage. They can't stand the realization that Reagan's vision helped win the cold war, bankrupt the Soviets and bring a step back from the Nuclear standoff we were fast approaching. The Liberals just can't keep their tongue in check.... can't keep their mouth shut while the country's focus, more specifically the voters in November, are looking back on a Republican administration that made all of our lives better. They fear the seed will be planted that the voters will yearn for that again... subsequently defeating the Democrats feverish attempt to win back the White House at all costs. During Weds. funeral procession, Jennings couldn't restrain himself from taking shots at President Bush.... calling the Iraq war we now face as "President Bush's burden". Rather and Brokaw are simply following suit... with Rather's flip-flop and Brokaw's "but he did little for minorities". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin More revisionists history here. A more appropriate beginning to a surreal rant has never been written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 And I suppose you have some evidence otherwise you'd like to produce? Of course you don't agree Destino... it doesn't fit with your agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin And I suppose you have some evidence otherwise you'd like to produce? Of course you don't agree Destino... it doesn't fit with your agenda. :laugh: My agenda???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin More revisionists history here. It was not Reagan himself who authorized the covert military operations... it was an over ambitious underling names Ollie North. Reagan took responsibility for it... as true great men should. The bottom line is... historians, analyst, political gurus can debate his administration and his policy... but for god's sake wait until the ceremony and memorial services are over. Could they not have waited a week.... until he was placed in the ground before back-biting and carping on his perceived weaknesses and wrong-doings? What's evident here is that the Left can't stand the attention the Right is getting with the passing of a former US President. They can't stand to have the spotlight shined on an administration that turned around the debacle of the previous administration and had the United States re-emerging as a political and economic force on the world stage. They can't stand the realization that Reagan's vision helped win the cold war, bankrupt the Soviets and bring a step back from the Nuclear standoff we were fast approaching. The Liberals just can't keep their tongue in check.... can't keep their mouth shut while the country's focus, more specifically the voters in November, are looking back on a Republican administration that made all of our lives better. They fear the seed will be planted that the voters will yearn for that again... subsequently defeating the Democrats feverish attempt to win back the White House at all costs. During Weds. funeral procession, Jennings couldn't restrain himself from taking shots at President Bush.... calling the Iraq war we now face as "President Bush's burden". Rather and Brokaw are simply following suit... with Rather's flip-flop and Brokaw's "but he did little for minorities". You are commiting the same error here Cskin. . . drop it for now and pick it up later. It's bait b y Sarge and ND to get liberals to speak bad about Reagan, some will take it, you shouldn't. Ranting about how wrong the liberals are is just as bad, because you are keeping up the argument. just drop it and bump the thread up in a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I didn't think you'd touch the inquiry about evidence... but it was a shot in the dark. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by chomerics This is far from the truth, I got in an argument with Thew about it the other day before he died. Out of respect for the man, I will keep my feelings aside today, the day that he is buried. Bring it up another time, because you are completely wrong on the issue, and in fact he almost caused us to go bankrupt in his process of econimic reform. I knew you of all people would deny the greatness of Reagan. Look Mike, I'm sure you will take the right of center position and say Gorbachev was the hero and Reagan almost destroyed the economy, but please when you post your sources don’t use commondreams.org, Molly Ivins, a Berkeley professor, or any of those other centrist sources you throw around. That’s all I ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin I didn't think you'd touch the inquiry about evidence... but it was a shot in the dark. :doh: I'm sorry but it's hard to take someone seriously when they accuse you have having some sort of agenda. That's crazy talk. As for my surreal comment, it was prompted by your attack that liberals are the ones acting in a bad manner when since the day he died and started his national tour, republicans have been using his death to attack liberals. I've been listening to Rush and Hannity do it all week, anyone who dares say anything other then Reagan is the best ever is immeidately attacked by the right wing "alternative" press. Here on the extreme boards we've had NavyDave and other looking to pick a fight and using the same cheap tacitc. If you respond to their insults you are attacked for speaking ill of a fallen President. I'll hold myself in check over Reagan because I do respect the man, but I'm not going to pretend I don't see the cheap tactic being used here. Also you are one of the very few people I've heard say Reagan took the fall for Ollie. I've never seen a single scrap of evidence to support that claim. Seemed to me from watching and reading about IranContra both were involved and Reagan's popularity saved him from being impeached because had he not been "I do not recall" wouldn't have cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Jackson's Ward where the f@ck do you see me blaming congress for AIDS are you that effing blind by your hatred of president reagan? The numbers of what we "wasted" on a preventable disease during his administration is on public record so attempt to dismiss it all you like. Those "illegal" ops in central america were legal depending on whose perspective you listen to and pro communist nicaraguans in their embassy have been sent back how many times because of fraud and spying? Then again when has liberals sided against communism? Heck Castro still gets rockstar statuc from the left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by NavyDave Jackson's Ward Then again when has liberals sided against communism? Heck Castro still gets rockstar statuc from the left Isn't that the truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by NavyDave Jackson's Ward where the f@ck do you see me blaming congress for AIDS are you that effing blind by your hatred of president reagan? The numbers of what we "wasted" on a preventable disease during his administration is on public record so attempt to dismiss it all you like. Those "illegal" ops in central america were legal depending on whose perspective you listen to and pro communist nicaraguans in their embassy have been sent back how many times because of fraud and spying? Then again when has liberals sided against communism? Heck Castro still gets rockstar statuc from the left You forgot that liberals hate Jesus and want to eat your babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Duncan Isn't that the truth... ...no it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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