bulldog Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 My guess is that even with all the turnover and doubts about players returning from injury, the Redskins will do fine on offense in 2001. Davis will get his yards and Westbrook and Gardner will prove to be a good pair of receivers along with Alexander. Jeff George will make it through the season as the starter and put up credible numbers. On defense, I think the team could struggle. I am not convinced that the team has made any moves to improve the defensive line, apologies to projections for #6 pick Mario Monds. Our only backup end, Ham, is a player with no NFL experience. The best tackle, Wilkinson, is a notoriously inconsistent performer and poor offseason worker. We have a competent set of linebackers, with two climbers on the outside in Arrington and Barber and two vets in the middle in Jones and Mitchell. Of this group, Jones is the only one who has shown consistency at the NFL level. Mitchell has only 9 starts in 7 NFL seasons. In the backfield Bailey and Shade are the only sure bets. Bailey to be excellent and Shade to be merely solid. The FS position could be a strength with Terrell or Ohalete or could be a weakness if these players are a year away from being ready. On the other corner, Green is 41 and Smoot/Harrison have never played a down in the NFL yet on the regular defense. Greer is another seldom-used player on the regular unit. 6 starts, 2 last year. Once again, he went unsigned by his former club Buffalo in free agency. So, overall all the worry over the offense to me is somewhat overblown. Yes, there are changes, but the veterans brought in like Ben Coleman and Kevin Lockett are capable performers. Other newcomers such as Rod Gardner are blue chip prospects. The returning starters are solid across the board, with some younger players like Samuels and Davis, that are capable of being the best in the Conference in 2001. On defense, everything keys on health and the developmemt of Arrington and Smoot, if Deion is released. If Arrington becomes the beast then the team may be able to mask some weaknesses inside. Otherwise we are back to depending on Bruce to play 40 downs a game at DE. Another 16 games from Bruce and Marco? Don't bet on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 I'm thinking 11-5 or 12-4.....The defense will be stellar but the biggest improvement will be on special teams! If last years Giants can go 12-4 so can we no doubt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 here here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsThug Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 I'm not convinced we can consistently stop the run with current personnel. Mind you, THE HEIMER may have a few schemes cooked up to aid our run defense. Also, the best friend of a defense is an offense that keeps them off the field. If everyone does their job, we could have an excellent season. At this point in the preseason I would have to say 9 - 7 and a possible wild card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Dingler and Jackie-O..... After only a mildly irrational post from Bullfrog (remarkable on this board), you guys are seeing 12-4? Trust me, you'll need to count the pre-season games to get anyhere near 12 wins......remember, the one thing Bullfrog missed was that Jeff George is your QB......When he's benched and Husak is throwing them to the other jerseys and when Davis is banged up and the "player for a day" lottery at FedEx field chooses his replacement, then you'll see the problems with the offense... ------------------ Champion of free sex changes and Displayer of delusions of grandeur (shaddup!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMP Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Optimism abounds in July, Bucs92. I'd like to think the Redskins will challenge the Dolphins undefeated season of 1972 each July. Ain't happened yet but I can still hope when the season is still 8 weeks away from starting. ------------------ <IMG SRC="http://www.joegibbsracing.com/joe_gibbs/joegibbs_images/driver_prof_joe.jpg" border=0><IMG SRC="http://www.joegibbsracing.com/current_season/jgr_wc_18/jgr_wc_18_images/car/bobby_car_race.gif" border=0><IMG SRC="http://www.joegibbsracing.com/current_season/jgr_wc_20/jgr_wc_20_images/car/drive_pontiac_tony.gif" border=0> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Jeff George should have one of his best years. In his best year in which he attained a 94 plus rating, he played in a modified WCO and in his previous good years he played in an offense that required a similar set of skills that the WCO requires. He also has stayed settled when the team he played with strong coaches. His most famous blow up was while he was playing the run and shoot which in the NFL is a 'kill the qb' offense. Using the power running of Davis and large receivers, we ought to be able to score and keep the ball. This means we ought to be able to 'gamble' on defense and could come up with a lot of big plays. We also might be able to hide our inablity to run-stop against weaker teams. I look at 10-6 or 11-5, maybe even 12-4, if we have no key injuries. Questions: Will Jeff George manipulate the mod-WCO like he did at Minnesota or will he fail with it like he did in his last year at Oakland? Will Stephen Davis stay healthy enough to be a contributor in all the games we are not the clearly dominant team? Will the offensive line gel? Will the receivers' catch the ball? What about special teams, how much improvement? Will someone unexpected step up? There are several guys who seem to have the measurables to do so. As always, how can we deal with injuries? ------------------ There are two kinds of opinions, mine and the wrong one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Bucs92 Have you seen your schedule yet? Brutal. I will have the last laugh when the Skins are playing in January and your team is at home. That's right, I just said you ain't makin the playoffs. I don't care what the media darlings say. Yo team is SOFT! And you're lookin at a 3-5 Division record in the NFC Norris. Brad will be the one throwin the ball to the other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 17, 2001 Author Share Posted July 17, 2001 Bucs92, I guess being a Tampa fan you have seen your share of poor quarterbacking over the years Still, you did not watch Brad for the past two seasons week in and week out as we did. He no longer has the downfield touch on his throws. This move reminds me so much of what the Skins did in acquiring Deion. Past his prime, Dallas fans tried to tell most here that Deion was not worth the money and the team should have looked elsewhere. But like Dungy is with Brad, Dan was in love with Deion and he became a Redskin. Deion didn't take the Skins to any great heights in 2000 and I don't expect Brad to do that in Tampa in 2001 either. Jeff George will have a better season than Brad at qb because his supporting cast is much stronger. Dunn and Alstot together don't equal Davis. Westbrook and Gardner will prove to be more productive than Keyshawn and Reidel Anthony. Stephen Alexander is better than any of the Bucs tight ends or secondary pass options. ps. are you guys ever going to GET to a Super Bowl? Forget about winning it, how about just making it? With all the talk from Bucs fans you would have thought they had 2 or 3 trophies already in the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 KMP, attempting to justify offseason optimism to a Bucs fan is akin to justifying smoking to a heroin addict. Why bother? ------------------ TOUCHDOWN, Washington Redskins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indyskinsfan Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Bucs92, Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, huh? Skinsthug and Bulldog, I agree on the D-Line points you both made, but also see that this area will be addressed as soon as the next 3-4 weeks pass. There's still some FA somewhere, and I really have a hard time believing, both Marty and Kurt Schottenheimer will leave their backside that open. If anything, it is intentional to not even speak about an area he will address. Having so much focus on a "potential distraction" and other areas affords them just what they need to set things up for seeing who else will be available. I really think the sore spot is DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Dingles and Bullfrog, I'm not the one talking smack about my team going 12-4.....I know we have a brutal schedule and I think 10-6 is a real possibility for us, but hey, as said by KMP it's July and we all hope. And, yes, I have seen plenty of poor QB play, but this revisionist history crap on Brad just has to stop. Everyone on this board was whining when it became clear he was going and the man with two first names was staying... ------------------ Champion of free sex changes and Displayer of delusions of grandeur (shaddup!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 perhaps we should roll the clock back to week 3 or 4 from last season to see what people though of Brad back then. Here, I'll help you. http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=SP&action=m&board=4688424&tid=nomorebsjustskinsnewstopics&sid=4688424&mid=7823 that's from a yahoo board early last season. Look all around those dates, people are Brad Hatin' in DC almost 10 months ago. ------------------ Sa Da Tai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 RuBucs, I think you are correct here that some members of this board prefer to consider memories of Brad Johnson in a manner more harsh than his play for the team would dictate. Still, even his most staunch supports will grudingly admit what his most ardent detractors will decry. Brad Johnson showed deteriorating arm strength and ability to lead the team when the chips were down. No Redskin fan, not a pro-Johnson guy, or a guy who doesn't like Johnson, will admit to being confident in Brad when we were trailing and needed a drive to put us over the top. Brad did an atrocious job for us in leading us when we were behind. To me, this is his most problematic trait as a Redskin, and I'm a fan of Johnson. I think he's bright enough and has the fundamental strength to be a very good quarterback, as he was for us. But, he could not raise the level of his play when the moment dicated it, and that was a crushing problem time and again for us. That's not to say George will prove any more apt in such situations, but, it's a fair observation to make. Many Redskin fans would have preferred Johnson to George. Others would prefer George to Johnson. Some would prefer neither, but have no real choice in the matter now. Though I'm a Johnson fan, I know George is a better fit for us at this stage than Johnson would have been. George has the physical skills that few can match and Marty is the type of coach that George has performed for in the past. And with any questions surrounding the wide receivers, most would rather have George zinging the ball in there than have Johnson trying to make something happen with the flat route. It's too early to start predicting our season performance, but, it's not unfair in the slightest to think 12-4 is not reachable. It certainly is. It's also plausible the Redskins could fall as badly as 6-10 or even worse, should all the questions turn out in a negative way. It's kind of that way with most teams. Optimism in the offseason should never really be considered a flaw. If so, you'd be very flawed for all your months on the bandwagon. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeCarl Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 It's a shame that the NFL couldn't have re-aligned the Bucs into the NFC East - I think our respective teams have developed a nice little rivalry. Personally, the two players in the league I liked the least going into last year were Deion Sanders and Jeff George. I didn't like signing either (although George as a backup at a reasonable price was by far the better decision). If we have a down season, I suspect in large measure it'll be due to a QB meltdown. I'm curious about Tampa Bay. Is Dungy going to hold on to four QBs? Is Leaf merely trade bait? Does Joe Hamilton ever make it on to the field? Last year the Redskins were clearly overrated. This year we have the luxury of sneaking up on folks. The Bucs, on the other hand, are media favorites. The focus is on Dungy's committment to re-vamp the offense. If a new QB and OT don't make any difference this year, what then? Yet another offensive coordinator? As for our confidence; heck, it's July. All the questions at this point are viewed on a 'best case' basis and the answers are all positive. It rarely works out that way, but it beats moping around like a Bengal fan ('You know, if we stay healthy, avoid turnovers and the rookies come around, we just might reach .500'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Actually TC, as bad as it is to be a Bengal fan, they HAVE managed to play in two Super Bowls, and close ones at that! The Bucs have yet to taste that pie, only twice being within sniffing distance ... only once in the last 22 years. Nope, I don't need Buc fans to tell me about good and bad football teams. [ by Brave on July 17, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 Somehow, I don't think Marty has been busy addressing the O this offseason and ignoring the D on purpose. Just doesn't make sense. He is an experienced, D-oriented coach and must just like what he sees on the defensive side. Otherwise, don't you think he'd have been busy refurbishing? How about we give him the benefit of the doubt until it's obvious that he f'ed up? By the way, bucs92, you are behaving like a punka$$. What's up? Why are you always stirring the pot? Bored? These guys just shred you, dude. You're an easy mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 18, 2001 Author Share Posted July 18, 2001 Bucs92, "revisionist history on Brad"....????? I watched Brad play 24 games over the past two season, how many have you watched? Be honest. You probably saw the Skins what, 3 or 4 times last year, including one game with Tampa? So, to a large extent you really haven't seen Brad play all that much in that time. Telling Redskins' fans they don't have an accurate gauge on where Brad Johnson is would be like us telling you that we know a lot more about Warren Sapp and the Bucs' D-line than Tampa fans that follow their team regularly. Johnson has had a difficult time getting the ball downfield. That is a fact. His interceptions were way up last year and in the second half of the year before due to this tendency to float the ball out there on the deep outs and the post stuff. The fact is also that the 50 catch performance by James Thrash is largely due to Jeff George starting games at the midpoint of last season. Before that our sole offensive weapon in the passing game was 32 year old fullback Larry Centers, who was very adept at making the 3 and 4 yard receptions. You say you are realistic about your team. Perhaps a 10-6 finish. But it could be 12-4, right? Could also be 9-7? That's what fans are doing here. Some say 12-4. Others like myself think 10-6 is realistic. Others are more down and think 8-8 or 9-7 with all the turnover would be a good season. Either way, the frustration level in Tampa has to be quite high right now. That desperation is evident from the Keyshawn deal last year and the Brad signing this year. So close to smelling the honey but always a step or two away. Here we are less desperate. We admit we had a lousy head coach for the past 7 years that wasted chance after chance and draft pick after draft pick. We have nowhere to go but up. Whereas the Bucs, with all those expectations from the media and the fans have a lot of room to disappoint. We will see how the Bucs fare being in the big time for a change. So far the team hasn't handled it all that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markrc99 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 the no question in my mind the redskins would be a much better team w/o deion. some feel that there's a line deion won't cross and that how he's viewed by his peers will have some dignifying influence over what he does. maybe,but from i've seen,i don't believe it. the reasons for deion not wanting to return to the redskins are simply not credible and are greatly outweighed by the obvious positives that exist by playing for a solid,proven coach like marty shottenheimer. not to mention one of the better defensive-minded coaches in all of football. for being paid the most,deion's situation is certainly unique if not to say confusing and unstable. how many players get paid what he's getting and run to baseball to avoid the necessary preparations for football? cause,like hello,he has no game! as for him having to show up on the 29th,he will,but only if he has too. i personally am unable to justify the committment to deion that the game of baseball is making to him? he's just USING the toronto blue jays & it would be unwise to under-estimate his "means" come the 29th. hail D-Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 18, 2001 Author Share Posted July 18, 2001 Mark, Deion's decision to pursue the course he has has to do with a couple of factors: 1. Deion realized in 1999 that he had lost a step after the toe surgery and his time in the NFL was coming to a close. He knew he had perhaps one or two years left to accomplish what he could before he would bow out of the game. He came to the Redskins in 2000 in hopes of riding that team to glory so he could go out on top like Elway did. That didn't happen and now he is faced with coming back to a team that may only be a 9-7 or 10-6 wildcard team in 2001. 2. Deion does not like to work hard in camp or in the offseason, according to a team's structured schedule. In Dallas he got away with that because Barry Switzer in '95 and '96 was asleep at the wheel and players pretty much did as they liked. Gailey likewise had little control over the team. Last year, Ray Rhodes also let Deion work out on his own and avoid a lot of the contact and group work in camp. The last thing Deion wants to do is report to camp on 7/29 and be treated to 2 a day practices by a camp hound like Marty Schottenheimer who will not exempt him from the work. At 33, Deion doesn't want to put out that kind of effort. So, there is an impasse. Deion wants to go in perhaps his final year to a team that can get him another ring. And he perceives the Skins are not going to go that far in the playoffs. At the same time he also wants to keep the $8 million bonus. It is the greatest attempted cash grab of the last decade in the NFL. And to protect the integrity of the organization, Marty is not going to let Deion waltz away and show up in an article in SI talking about how he hoodwinked the Redskins and how he beat them like a rented mule by getting his freedom AND all that cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Bullfrog, What are you saying? That there's no pressure on the Skins because they've been such a poor team the last 7 years? Get your head out from under that rock and look around. If the Skins don't start producing soon, they'll continue to wallow in mediocrity and missed opportunity. Think Snyder plunked down all that money for that? As for the Bucs, yes they are front runners and they didn't handle it well last year. But, there isn't the pressure on this team you might imagine. Dungy is going nowhere, regardless of season outcome. He is a good coach, and players want to play for him. That's why we got Brad,Rice, Christy, and McDaniel for less money than they'd get elsewhere. I can't remember Denny Green getting to Superbowls or Bill Cowher for that matter, but they seem to be on everybody's list of great coaches. ------------------ Champion of free sex changes and Displayer of delusions of grandeur (shaddup!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Bill Cowher took Pittsburgh to the Superbowl against Dallas. but with you not understanding football, you wouldn't know that. You didn't even comment on the Skins fans hatin' on Brad last year with that link. Ignoring truth perhaps? ------------------ Sa Da Tai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Buffy, Ohhhhhh, right, O'Donnell was so bad in that game I blocked it from my memory........still, my point is valid. Steelers have done bullet for years and Cowher is still there and in charge (it was Donohoe they rode out of town)......Green goes to the playoffs 8 times in 9 years and that seems to be good enough.... As for the links.....so,some fans ****ed about Brad.....Weren't Skins fans ****ing about their QBs throughout the Norv era? There was far more hand wringing when the decision was made to let BJ go and you know it. ------------------ Champion of free sex changes and Displayer of delusions of grandeur (shaddup!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Excellent point Bufford. RuBucs, how frequently do you have to have better information given to you before you recognize how outclassed you are here? ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 totally missed the point. You're saying that now that Brad is gone that everybody has changed their tune because we thought he kicked a$$. Then we show you that even at the begining of last season people weren't all that into Brad since we got to watch him every week until he got hurt again. As far as the Steelers, they keep losing FA's and charging only 57 mil for their stadiums naming rights, that's their own stupid fault if they don't know how to do it. Cowher is going with Kordell again and it's a mistake again. They could of draft Pennington two years ago and he'd be starting by now. Blame the Rooney's for keeping Cowher in Pittsburgh when they boo him for keeping Kordell in. The Rooney's say "The coach is bigger than the players" Take it with a grain of salt I suppose. The dude that owns the Vikes would like nothing more than to move the team to San Antonio where he lives. Why doesn't he fire Denny Green? I got no idea but if this were "Major League" then he'd be doing it so the city stops backing up the team and he can move it....not likely. People pick Tampa every year to win it all and once they start losing some games people starting talking about Bill Parcells being brought in to coach Tampa since he can control both sides of the ball. It's not happening much yet but check back in around week 10. Those little rumors will be back. by the way, I was gonna guess you didn't remember the Steelers Superbowl because I might of been before Tampa changed their Uni's and all the sudden people liked them. The NFL must be working in a "Before New Uni's" and "After New Uni's" system. When did that happen anyway? ------------------ Sa Da Tai! [ by Bufford on July 18, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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