Sarge Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 Not an occupation? Who gave Israel their "land"? And who was living their before Israel? And who legally lives their now? And who gave Israel the majority of their weapons and jets? If another country took over Texas or Hawaii would that not be defined as an "occupation"? (And would we not do some of the same things the so-called "terrorstinians" are doing now? The UN A bunch of bedowhins Isreal We do. Now if we would just let them us them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black No to both, Sarge, but you're missing gems like this: I should turn off the ignore thing for him. I need a laugh Thanks AtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 Until Israel relinquishes all occupied territories and accepts the rights of the persecuted Palestinian citizens and accepts a Palestinian state there will be more and more violence even though I am against it--I understand it. You do realize that the majority of Palestianians and most (quite possibly all) of those actively participating in terrorism against Israel consider all of Israel to be the territories that are occupied. And yes their goal is to continue the violence until all those territories have been recovered and purged of Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINZ_DOMIN8 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 You do realize that the majority of Palestianians and most (quite possibly all) of those actively participating in terrorism against Israel consider all of Israel to be the territories that are occupied. And yes their goal is to continue the violence until all those territories have been recovered and purged of Jews. Nice try. A wrong is still a wrong. Every single one of you has admitted that Israel currently is occupying (illegally) Palestinian land. Even the U.N. considers it to be illegal. That about is all that needs to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 Nice try. A wrong is still a wrong. Every single one of you has admitted that Israel currently is occupying (illegally) Palestinian land. Even the U.N. considers it to be illegal. That about is all that needs to be said. Show me where I said that. You must have skipped my other post. Show me the map of "Palestein" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Sarge Show me the map of "Palestein" as well. There ya go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I have vowed not to voice out my opinion in this thread, so I'll just voice out others'. Here's the "THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER", 1964 version. OK? 1-9-6-4, no occupation, no corrupt Ariel Sharon in power, no "979guy" born yet. THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni - Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference) INTRODUCTION We, the Palestinian Arab people, who waged fierce and continuous battles to safeguard its homeland, to defend its dignity and honor, and who offered all through the years continuous caravans of immortal martyrs, and who wrote the noblest pages of sacrifice, offering and giving. We, the Palestinian Arab people, who faced the forces of evil, injustice and aggression, against whom the forces of international Zionism and colonialism conspire and worked to displace it, dispossess it from its homeland and property, abused what is holy in it and who in spite of all this refused to weaken or submit. We, the Palestinian Arab people, who believe in its Arabism and in its right to regain its homeland, to realize its freedom and dignity, and who have determined to amass its forces and mobilize its efforts and capabilities in order to continue its struggle and to move forward on the path of holy war (al-jihad) until complete and final victory has been attained, We, the Palestinian Arab people, based on our right of self-defense and the complete restoration of our lost homeland- a right that has been recognized by international covenants and common practices including the Charter of the United Nations-and in implementation of the principles of human rights, and comprehending the international political relations, with its various ramifications and dimensions, and considering the past experiences in all that pertains to the causes of the catastrophe, and the means to face it, And embarking from the Palestinian Arab reality, and for the sake of the honor of the Palestinian individual and his right to free and dignified life, And realizing the national grave responsibility placed upon our shoulders, for the sake of all this, We, the Palestinian Arab people, dictate and declare this Palestinian National Charter and swear to realize it. Article 1. Palestine is an Arab homeland bound by strong Arab national ties to the rest of the Arab Countries and which together form the great Arab homeland. Article 2: Palestine, with its boundaries at the time of the British Mandate, is a indivisible territorial unit. Article 3: The Palestinian Arab people has the legitimate right to its homeland and isan inseparable part of the Arab Nation. It shares the sufferings and aspirations of the Arab Nation and its struggle for freedom, sovereignty, progress and unity. Article 4: The people of Palestine determine its destiny when it completes the liberation of its homeland in accordance with its own wishes and free will and choice. Article 5: The Palestinian personality is a permanent and genuine characteristic that does not disappear. It is transferred from fathers to sons. Article 6: The Palestinians are those Arab citizens who were living normally in Palestine up to 1947, whether they remained or were expelled. Every child who was born to a Palestinian Arab father after this date, whether in Palestine or outside, is a Palestinian. Article 7: Jews of Palestinian origin are considered Palestinians if they are willing to live peacefully and loyally in Palestine. Article 8: Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty. All means of guidance, education and enlightenment should be utilized to introduce the youth to its homeland in a deep spiritual way that will constantly and firmly bind them together. Article 9: Ideological doctrines, whether political, social, or economic, shall not distract the people of Palestine from the primary duty of liberating their homeland. All Palestinian constitute one national front and work with all their feelings and material potentialities to free their homeland. Article 10: Palestinians have three mottos: National Unity, National Mobilization, and Liberation. Once liberation is completed, the people of Palestine shall choose for its public life whatever political, economic, or social system they want. Article 11: The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity, and in order to play its role in realizing this goal, it must, at this stage of its struggle, preserve its Palestinian personality and all its constituents. It must strengthen the consciousness of its existence and stance and stand against any attempt or plan that may weaken or disintegrate its personality. Article 12: Arab unity and the liberation of Palestine are two complementary goals; each prepares for the attainment of the other. Arab unity leads to the liberation of Palestine, and the liberation of Palestine leads to Arab unity. Working for both must go side by side. Article 13: The destiny of the Arab Nation and even the essence of Arab existence are firmly tied to the destiny of the Palestine question. From this firm bond stems the effort and struggle of the Arab Nation to liberate Palestine. The people of Palestine assume a vanguard role in achieving this sacred national goal. Article 14: The liberation of Palestine, from an Arab viewpoint, is a national duty. Its responsibilities fall upon the entire Arab nation, governments and peoples, the Palestinian peoples being in the forefront. For this purpose, the Arab nation must mobilize its military, spiritual and material potentialities; specifically, it must give to the Palestinian Arab people all possible support and backing and place at its disposal all opportunities and means to enable them to perform their role in liberating their homeland. Article 15: The liberation of Palestine, from a spiritual viewpoint, prepares for the Holy Land an atmosphere of tranquillity and peace, in which all the Holy Places will be safeguarded, and the freedom to worship and to visit will be guaranteed for all, without any discrimination of race, color, language, or religion. For all this, the Palestinian people look forward to the support of all the spiritual forces in the world. Article 16: The liberation of Palestine, from an international viewpoint, is a defensive act necessitated by the demands of self-defense as stated in the Charter of the United Nations. For that, the people of Palestine, desiring to befriend all nations which love freedom, justice, and peace, look forward to their support in restoring the legitimate situation to Palestine, establishing peace and security in its territory, and enabling its people to exercise national sovereignty and freedom. Article 17: The partitioning of Palestine, which took place in 1947, and the establishment of Israel are illegal and null and void, regardless of the loss of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and its natural right to its homeland, and were in violation of the basic principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, foremost among which is the right to self-determination. Article 18: The Balfour Declaration, the Palestine Mandate System, and all that has been based on them are considered null and void. The claims of historic and spiritual ties between Jews and Palestine are not in agreement with the facts of history or with the true basis of sound statehood. Judaism, because it is a divine religion, is not a nationality with independent existence. Furthermore, the Jews are not one people with an independent personality because they are citizens to their states. Article 19: Zionism is a colonialist movement in its inception, aggressive and expansionist in its goal, racist in its configurations, and fascist in its means and aims. Israel, in its capacity as the spearhead of this destructive movement and as the pillar of colonialism, is a permanent source of tension and turmoil in the Middle East, in particular, and to the international community in general. Because of this, the people of Palestine are worthy of the support and sustenance of the community of nations. Article 20: The causes of peace and security and the requirements of right and justice demand from all nations, in order to safeguard true relationships among peoples and to maintain the loyalty of citizens to their homeland, that they consider Zionism an illegal movement and outlaw its presence and activities. Article 21: The Palestinian people believes in the principles of justice, freedom, sovereignty, self-determination, human dignity, and the right of peoples to practice these principles. It also supports all international efforts to bring about peace on the basis of justice and free international cooperation. Article 22: The Palestinian people believe in peaceful co-existence on the basis of legal existence, for there can be no coexistence with aggression, nor can there be peace with occupation and colonialism. Article 23: In realizing the goals and principles of this Convent, the Palestine Liberation Organization carries out its full role to liberate Palestine in accordance with the basic law of this Organization. Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields. Article 25: This Organization is in charge of the movement of the Palestinian people in its struggle to liberate its homeland in all liberational, organizational, and financial matters, and in all other needs of the Palestine Question in the Arab and international spheres. Article 26: The Liberation Organization cooperates with all Arab governments, each according to its ability, and does not interfere in the internal affairs of any Arab states. Article 27: This Organization shall have its flag, oath and a national anthem. All this shall be resolved in accordance with special regulations. Article 28: The basic law for the Palestine Liberation Organization is attached to this Charter. This law defines the manner of establishing the Organization, its organs, institutions, the specialties of each one of them, and all the needed duties thrust upon it in accordance with this Charter. Article 29: This Charter cannot be amended except by two-thirds majority of the members of the National Council of the Palestine Liberation Organization in a special session called for this purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 979, I appreciate that this must be a very emotional issue for you. But you're one of the most intelligent and thoughtful posters here, so if you're willing, I'm sure most of us would love to hear your opinions and thoughts as to a possible resolution (or the impossibility of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINZ_DOMIN8 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 You do realize that the majority of Palestianians and most (quite possibly all) of those actively participating in terrorism against Israel consider all of Israel to be the territories that are occupied. And yes their goal is to continue the violence until all those territories have been recovered and purged of Jews. And you do realize that Israel is, ONCE AGAIN, ILLEGALLY occupying/killing Palestinians on land that IS NOT THEIRS. See the West Bank, Gaza Strip. And you do realize that Israel continues to ILLEGALLY build settlements on the Palestinian lands? Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyster Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 You never answered my post SKINZ. Instead you keep making stuff up. First you said it was guerilla warfare. Now its Israel being there illegally? So that makes it OK to blow up a bus, even though the assertion of ownership can be disputed? I guess in your mind if American Indians start blowing themselves up on buses in American, that's OK? Because they were here first? At a certain point, you have to live and let live. I really believe the Israelis would do that if they didn't get bombed every other week. You are out of your mind. You're like some kind of weasel, just squirming from one insane argument to the next when each one is blown out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Just so we get it correct. Muslims built their Holy Sites on top of Jewish ones. The Terrorstinian Charter was in 1964, Israel started (in current form) in 1948. It's easy to see who was their first and who the land REALLY belongs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINZ_DOMIN8 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I really believe the Israelis would do that if they didn't get bombed every other week. Do what? Continue to persecute the Palestinian men, women, and children? What about their legal right of return which is recognized by your own "U.N." or your illegal settlements? Israel will not win this war. You know it and I know it. The population of Palestinians is increasing exponentially each year and there has been a documented slow population growth of Israelis in their own country. Sooner or later the Palestinians will already have a voting majority in "Israel." Then what will those murdering persecutors do? Quit killing innocent Palestinian children and forcing families to starve!!!!!!!!!! The Israelis have blood on their hands and that is why the doves staunchly disagree with Sharon and his band of thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 And you do realize that Israel is, ONCE AGAIN, ILLEGALLY occupying/killing Palestinians on land that IS NOT THEIRS. See the West Bank, Gaza Strip. And you do realize that Israel continues to ILLEGALLY build settlements on the Palestinian lands? Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy THE MAP SHOW ME THE MAP OR YOUR AURGUEMENT HAS NO MERIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 Do what? Continue to persecute the Palestinian men, women, and children? What about their legal right of return which is recognized by your own "U.N." or your illegal settlements? Israel will not win this war. You know it and I know it. The population of Palestinians is increasing exponentially each year and there has been a documented slow population growth of Israelis in their own country. Sooner or later the Palestinians will already have a voting majority in "Israel." Then what will those murdering persecutors do? Quit killing innocent Palestinian children and forcing families to starve!!!!!!!!!! The Israelis have blood on their hands and that is why the doves staunchly disagree with Sharon and his band of thugs. THE MAP. SHOW ME PAESTINE. BTW, Isreal can win this easily. AS we saw this weekend, terrorists in wheelchairs against Apache gunships is no contest. NOW SHOW ME PALESTINE ON A MAP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINZ_DOMIN8 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 BTW, Isreal can win this easily. AS we saw this weekend, terrorists in wheelchairs against Apache gunships is no contest. Yeah, they sure fight fair. With their American built Apache Helicopters they shoot a quadraplegic and a number of innocent civillians. Israel should be real proud. :finger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Yep they should be very proud. A few less terrorist scumbags plotting their demise is a GREAT thing. None of the terrorists are innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 Yeah, they sure fight fair. With their American built Apache Helicopters they shoot a quadraplegic and a number of innocent civillians. Israel should be real proud. :finger: You probably prefer I went and exploded myself in a bus full of children in Gaza, that would be playing it fair, right? Come on, DOMIN8, we love you. it's ok. Whatever it was that happened in that basement when you were a child - let's talk about it. It will go away. Those nightmares and the voices you keep hearing - we'll make them disappear. We love you. Come now, give us a hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 Yeah, they sure fight fair. With their American built Apache Helicopters they shoot a quadraplegic and a number of innocent civillians. Israel should be real proud. :finger: A MAP OF PALESTINE OR HAVE A BIG CUP OF STFU:finger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyster Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 SKINZ, you still didn't answer my questions. Like I said earlier, you are such a weasel. You don't answer any questions and resort to rhetoric constantly. Case in point: You: "Israel will not win this war. You know it and I know it." Reply: "BTW, Isreal can win this easily. AS we saw this weekend, terrorists in wheelchairs against Apache gunships is no contest." You: "Yeah, they sure fight fair." Notice how you don't say anything to back up your claims. You just try to change the subject. You're not intelligent and you can't hold an arguement to save your life. Sarge is right when he says if you can't show us a map of Palestine, your whole "argument" is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Sarge, i'm not defending the suicide bombers. Its that even if your beyond a doubt guilty you go to trail. The Nazis went to trail, Sadaam is goin on trial, and we're trying to catch Bin Laden to put him on trial. Though we didn't have apaches during WW2, we do now and we aren't blowing Sadaam and Bin Laden to dust, killing inoccents in the process. I defend the Isrealis trying to defend themselves, but to me they are goin about it the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Renegade7 ...we do now and we aren't blowing Sadaam and Bin Laden to dust, killing inoccents in the process.... Please support this notion. Please. US Bombing Kills Six Civilians By Mirwais Afghan KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - At least six Afghan civilians were killed and seven wounded in a U.S. airstrike in Afghanistan's central province of Uruzgan, officials said on Saturday. Many of the casualties in the Friday night raid on a village in the province's Charcheno district were women and children, said a provincial government official who declined to be identified. Six people had been killed and seven wounded, said a police officer, who also declined to be identified. A Pakistan-based Afghan news agency said seven people had been killed -- three women and four men. U.S. military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Bryan Hilferty said he was unaware of any civilian casualties. He said U.S. aircraft had pounded suspected Taliban positions in the province on Friday morning, not evening, in retaliation for the killing of two U.S. soldiers on Thursday in a fire fight in which five militants were also killed. He said the air strikes in the Tarin Kot area killed three more suspected militants. "I have no information that indicates coalition forces killed any civilians in Uruzgan," he said. "Certainly I have no reports that women or children were killed." U.S.-led forces have stepped up a hunt for Taliban and al Qaeda militants, including Osama bin Laden, in south and east Afghanistan launched since March 7, codenamed "Mountain Storm." The United States has been criticized by many Afghans and rights groups for killing and wounding civilians in its pursuit of Taliban, al Qaeda and fighters allied to them, launched after the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. The United Nations has called for details of investigations into such incidents to be made public. In the worst U.S. attack on civilians, in July 2002, 48 people were killed and 117 hurt when a U.S. gunship attacked a wedding party in the province, according to Afghan officials. The U.S. military eventually said 34 had been killed and 50 wounded -- most women and children -- but said the aircraft had come under fire. "NAVIGATION ERROR" In other violence overnight, three militants were killed when several dozen suspected Taliban and al Qaeda fighters attacked government forces near a U.S. military base at Shkin in Paktika province close to the Pakistani border. The attackers struck from four directions, said Paktika police chief Mohammad Rahim Ali Khel. The rebels fled into Pakistan when U.S. helicopters appeared, he said. The attack occurred just across the border from a major Pakistani military operation against hundreds of suspected al Qaeda militants in Pakistan's South Waziristan region. In another incident, a U.S. helicopter launched an attack inside Pakistan's North Waziristan region on Friday night, killing one person and wounding three, villagers said. The region's top security official confirmed the attack but said he had no information about a death. The helicopter strayed into Pakistani territory because of a navigation error, he said. (Additional reporting by Sayed Salahuddin and David Brunnstrom in Kabul and Haji Mujtaba in Miranshah, Pakistan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 We aren't bombing Sadaam and Bin Laden because we aren't trying to kill him! Ya we've killed inoccents but not to get one person. If they know where the terrorist are, why don't they go out and just arrest them? I understand they want to destroy the terrorist, but they're goin about it the wrong way. That's my point, and i'm stickin to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINZ_DOMIN8 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Israel kills civillians every day!!!!!!!!!! It starves the innocent children everyday!!!!! It keeps men and women from working everyday!!!!!!!! It violates human rights everyday!!!!!! It builds illegal settlements everyday!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Renegade7, we tried to kill Saddam the first day of Gulf War II. And if we had bin Laden in our sights, we'd kill him too and accept a high degree of "collateral damage" in the process. And 99% of Americans would be cheering. I'd be right in among them. Israel is acting no differently than the USA would in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8 Israel kills civillians every day!!!!!!!!!! It starves the innocent children everyday!!!!! It keeps men and women from working everyday!!!!!!!! It violates human rights everyday!!!!!! It builds illegal settlements everyday!!!!!!!! Good thing the nice monarchies surrounding Israel are charitable enough to open their borders, welcome the Palestinians into their lands, and begin the process of healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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