KWII vs. Sean Taylor: make your case.

[SKINZ_DOMIN8]

If you have a top 5 pick then I think you've got to go best player available ahead of need.

:doh:

:thud:

Just think of the potential # of picks we could accumulate solely by trading down a few slots. Udeze/Harris/Lavalis/Troupe.

:eaglesuck and always will.

[atloldskin]

I would still take Taylor. I think he solidies the defense. I am intrigued with Winslow and would welcome him too. These are the only two worthy of the #5 pick.

[freakofthesouth]

Taylor would be the anchor to this revised secondary that may be necessary for success.

KW2's athleticism and talent is pehnomenal; there is no question. But ultimately, it comes down to the team as a whole: where are the problem areas? When we look at this question, we can see that the defense, in more ways than one, is currently lacking.

Now, KW2 will be an immediate addition to any offense. But take a look at Gibbs' offense: he has a fantastic running back, good O-Linemen, two starting-caliber Qbs, and some talented WRs. Where is the deficiency there? A freakish TE would be pretty helpful, but not at all a need. Gibbs wants/needs blocking TEs.

However, take a look at our secondary- we lost an all-world corner, and our safeties are not that good. We are hurting here, and unless we adda Deon Grant or a John Lynch, watch Taylor be the pick.

Furthermore, to have a versatile safety creates an incredible dynamic for a defense, and it may help releive some of the other problematic areas, including DL.

If our recent FA actions show anything, it is that we may be headed to a 3-4. And while it is important for those 3 DL to hold their ground, the defense will rely on it's pressure through massive scheming and confusion. And that confusion can be aided significantly by a high-potential safety.

If we are going 3-4, it's my guess that Gibbs and co. watched the tapes on the Pat's defeats of our entire division (minus us, of course!). They may realize that the rest of these teams have no success w/ that type of setup, as the Pats more or less handled each NFC East rival we have. These teams are not used to it, and they will suffer if Williams puts all his thought and energy on creating these plays, which he most likely will.

So, to end this long-winded, run-on post, we're going 3-4, and we're drafting Taylor.

[NavyDave]

Taylor obviously.

Everyone believes Springs is going to be gimpy, Smoot was nicked up last year, terrell didnt contribute to that many remote tosses last year but he did fill my swear jar with his performance as did Frantz.

Missing out on butler leaves us with Bauman and Jimoh and in our division the coaches do scout out our weaknesses and contrary to popular believe we are weak in the secondary.

KW2 isnt going to be on the field when we need a defensive stop.

[citigent]

Originally posted by LaVarArringtons****

Question is does Winslow fit in Gibb's offensive scheme? NO! Taylor all the way.

after all the talk on this board how can you even say this with a straight face. kw2 could play te , wr, or h-back, a position that did not exist until gibbs created it. and the man that he created it for was kw2's dad. :hammer:

[Monks04]

To me it really depends on Gibbs offensive philosophy. If Gibbs is going to run the same style offense he did in the 1980's; I would choose Taylor. Under Gibbs in the 80's the most catches a TE had in a season was 35 catches I think. I don't want to spend mega-bucks on KWII for 40 catches. I don't think KWII would care much for that either. This would make Taylor the easy selection because its an obvious upgrade to the defense.

On the other hand, if Gibbs is wanting to mix-up the offense a little to take advantage of a talent such as KWII... I am all for it. Everything Joe Gibbs has done.... turns to GOLD!

[dahogs]

Winslow is by far the most versatile pick.

[The Sisko]

I'm still somewhat of the mind that we would be better off trading down in the first round perhaps more than once even. IF we could be reasonably sure that doing so would net us some combo of two of Starks/Watson/Jones I'd be tickled pink. If we could get another say 4th round pick (assuming we trade down once more)in the process that we could use on a wide body DT like a Siavi (especially if we decide to go to a 3-4) that would be excellent also. If we use this strategy I think we'd probably end up filling a fair # of holes in the draft and thus set ourselves up to be in a position to need only 1 or 2 more players next offseason.

I personally happen to think that using a #5 pick on a TE like Winslow might just be a bit of overkill. If we trade down we can probably get a close to comparable TE in Watson, AND a very good DT in Starks and/or perhaps a very good S prospect in Jones.

If we stick with our current spot, I think KWII has to be the pick. I think a powerful and complete offensive unit would do the team more good than adding a S that would just be a bandaid on a unit with more holes to fill. I'd rather we have at least ONE totally complete unit going into the season and KWII would provide that in spades. Additionally, I think the chances of us finding a very good S in next year's draft or in F.A. are probably quite good while TEs like Winslow don't come along very often....especially where we're likely to be drafting:)

[RF4L]

Originally posted by Bufford Q Justice

Does the person who starts the 1,000,000th thread of this topic win a prize?

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :laugh:

Priceless, Euro dude.

[Samuels]

Yes to whoever ask Kellen Winslow is only 20 years old when he matures watch out. But Taylor is only 20 also. I've watched UM alot the last few years and Winslow2 just stands out even his freshman year. Shockey flat out said KW2 is better.KW2 makes wow plays and does it by blocking or hustleing along with his recieving skills. The offense would be straight TNT, other teams would be playing alot of catch up and have to pass. Winslow2 will have to be covered by a big CB he'll kill safetys and lb's.Like the eagles will play Vincent or Taylor on Shockey. Most teams won't be able to man him up and will have to double him inside out opening up everything.

[DTYJR]

both players are truly talented and have bright futures in the NFL but this is a team sport and our biggest need is defense. I think if we would have signed butler then a slight edge to winslow, but we didn't and TE's in our system are not generally condsider for there ability to catch, of course gibbs has not had one of those so we don't know if it will work or not, but for now its TAYLOR

[novascotiadiesel]

I really had no strong opinion on this matter untill i read this thread but after hearing all the arguments posted here, many of them very good by the way, i am quite sold on the idea of drafting KW2 in fact now i am really hoping we do!!

[Snagletooth]

Heap managed 57 recepts for 693 yeards in a heavy run offense. Gonzo in the more pass oriented KC offense had 71 recepts and 916 yards.

I don't see that Gibbs would really have to alter his offense significantly to get a talent like K2 60 plus receptions. Gibbs has stated he is shooting for balance on offense. I view NY as a relatively balanced offense under Fassel. And Shockey pulled down 48 recepts in his 9 games played.

Generally I'm more of a defensive guy. I buy into "defense wins championships." Nothing has pained me more that to watch our defense get shoved around for so many years. And I would like nothing more than to see an ultra aggressive top defense on par with Dallas and Philly. I just don't see that with or without Taylor. I can't sell my self on Taylor. I'm on the K2 bandwagon for now.

[TheDevil'sAdvocate]

Okay, since I do not believe that the Redskins will trade down, unless, of course, they're offered the moon, I'm going to predict that we select Kellen Winslow Jr. with the 5th overall pick.

The last thing in the world the Redskins need is a TE with the 5th pick. Their defense is horrible and the draft is the last chance to get major talent help there. Gibbs offense in D.C. never needed a TE like Winslow. It's pointless to get him and it actually would HURT the Redskins because neglects this shaky at best defense even further.

With that said, I would trade down (when Gibbs said they were going to stay at #5, that was, to me, like saying "we can be moved from #5, but you better offer us something good because there's a blue chip player waiting for you at #5)......

I think the team could look at both Ben Troupe (TE) and Kevin Jones (S). There you can get your precious TE, who's got #1st round talent himself and can be a future Pro Bowler himself and a safety who's very good in his own right. Get both positions.

Of course, I'd really want help on that horrendous defensive line. So maybe you forget the TE alltogether for a lineman. The safety is 1st day quality and both can be had in the right trade scenario. That's what would help the Redskins the most.

[Samuels]

Gibbs never had a player in DC like KW2 he'd use him and well. Kellen Winslow SR had his best seasons under Joe Gibbs in SD and was catching 80-90 balls a year. Why not make the offense unstoppable and drafting KW2 would. We'd without a doubt win 10 games just on outscoring people alone. I think coaching alone will make us a better defense and our safety play was'nt hurting us. Our problems on defense was because of the D-Line not the safety play. At Te we did'nt have anybody that could block or catch. We have Rasby who is strictly a blocker and over 30. Royal is average but can't stay healthy. Fleminster and Ware both should be cut and Flem already was 2 times last year by us and Cleveland.Sellers was a good blocker but he's been busted on drugs and playing in the CFL not someone to count on. I don't think Bryan Johnson or Rock fit the mold of a H-Back/TE. I'd rather Rock be the 3rd RB and maybe use him in short yardage. Winslow makes a ton of sense we could trade Rod for a pick and not miss a beat with DMac and 2 picking up the slack.

[KDawg]

Winslow would take touches from Coles, that's the one thing that bothers me about drafting Winslow... If we pay him, we'll throw to him... Coles is the bigger playmaker and one of the two will wind up unhappy...

Go Taylor

[Art]

KDawg,

I actually believe Winslow would ADD touches to Coles. He'd keep drives going, giving us more opportunities. He'd take safety help away from areas and through motion Gibbs would get Coles alone against corners. Coles might be good for 100-110 catches in a Gibbs system anyway. With Winslow, that would be somewhat easier.

[Samuels]

I agree Art 100%. Winslow2 is very clutch on 3rd down and will help to keep drives churning. He also has a great ability to see the blitz and break off his route for his qb immediately and thats a very rare trait in a TE. I think if we were sold on drafting #5 why not go get our d-line fixed now. I'd try to sign Sapp and Brackens they would fit nice or even Gardner for Sapp. You add Sapp and Brackens and I think our defense can be top notch we've been top 5 with worse safetys then we got now.

[KDawg]

Just as you said, Art, without Winslow Coles will probably register over 100 receptions... With Winslow, although Coles will be open more often, I just don't see him getting that many touches with so many options on offense...

Gardner, Jacobs, McCants, Winslow, Portis, Rasby, Rock, Coles, etc.

I'm not against Winslow, but the very fact that it could limit Coles production in terms of touches turns me off...

[Samuels]

I don't think KW2 will hurt Coles production. I think his YPC would go up a few yards with KW2 though. Winslow would become the player D-Cordinators gameplan the most for in the passing game from day 1. Coles will be given alot of 1 on 1 matchups that he should win. I think Gardner would immediately become option #3 and could be traded for a late 1st or high 2nd maybe getting us Sean Jones to play FS or get us a young D-lineman.

[Griff]

At this point I think it will be KWII. KWII will add one hell of a wrinkle to Gibbs O.

[Mania]

Originally posted by LaVarArringtons****

Question is does Winslow fit in Gibb's offensive scheme? NO! Taylor all the way.

What are you talking about. KW2 will hopefully work in his offense like his father did on San Diego and Gibb's was in charge of the Air Coryell offense. Besides Gibb's will make an offense to suit his players strengths.