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Conversly, 2001 Team Goat


Braves On Warpath

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Who is the Guy you LEAST want to see back in the B&G next year?

1. Tony Banks

2. Donovan "We hardly knew ya" Greer

3. Michael "Cheap Shot" Westbrook

4. Jimmy "I must be kin to keep my job" Rainheimer

And the envelope please....

I'll go with Albert Connell in a land slide. He'll get my vote next year too! guns.gif

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The goat is Raye by a landslide. Our offense is almost AAA High School level. Banks is no great shakes, but, the man CAN do some things. We'll just find ways to make those things impossible because they don't fit into what we want to do. Raye is the goat, by a long stretch to me.

I'd still like to see Westbrook brought back. I know he won't come back, but, if that were to change, and he would return, I'd take him in a second. As I do think he's gone, let's make a run at Crowell.

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Doom is in the box.

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Jimmy Raye, Tony Banks. I believe Westbrook will sign with someone else, even if he's offered to stay with the Skins. Any attempt by Marty to keep Banks will send flashbacks of Raye and Banks in his mind and hurry his search (actually he'll be sought) to sign with a new team. Indianapolis, Miami, Tampa Bay, Chicago, SF, Seattle, SD, or Philly will all come knocking at the door.

Greer is gone.

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When Banks was signed, there were no other options. You said yourself in October or so that Marty isn't to blame for George, or for Banks, but Snyder is to blame for sticking Marty with those jokers. Marty tried to make a go of it with George and where he failed was not allowing George to do that which George can do. Sticking him in that offense, if that was always the intention, was doomed to fail. I wonder if George had not had some arm problems if the offense would have been a bit different early.

No matter. Marty is the head coach and laying the blame on him for hiring the goat is fine. But, everyone has a job to do and Marty, while not setting the world on fire doing his, is doing a better job than Raye is at his. Of course, since Snyder ultimately hired Marty who hired Raye, we should blame Snyder I suppose smile.gif.

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Doom is in the box.

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It has to be Raye. We have the most undiscplined offense I have ever seen. The offense came onto the field against the Saints after a turnover and had to call a timeout. Usually we are left wondering why a timeout was used because the following play was usually ill conceived. We have no down field passing attack. There is no flow to the plays that are called. We have trouble getting the correct offensive players on the field when determined by down and distance. I have been watching some of the early bowl games--there are several colleges that use more multiple sets and motion than our offense. Gibbs and Turner gave the defenses something to think about on each play--make the oppostion's defense adjust on each play--that concept is lost on Raye. I hate that Westbrook was virtually wasted this year. I think we will miss him. With the size of our receivers--how many fade passes did we try in the end zone. Raye and Banks have choked this offense to death.

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raye will stay, regrettably, as the power is in marty's corner. misgivings or not, we will find that losing westbrook will put a big hurt on this team and we will waste yet another draft looking for a replacement - haven't seen marty make any moves to groom mccants this year, so i have to assume he is a very long-term prospect.

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let's end the fiction here. Yes, Marty inherited Jeff George. Did he have to keep him for the 2001 season?

Obviously not, because he missed 14 of the 16 games we have played laugh.gif

Was it a mistake to keep George? Yes. Why?

Because Marty's plan from the start was to recraft an offense that was ill-suited to George and ignored his well-established history of being a selfish player.

If Marty's plan had been to work the offense to Jeff's strengths in 2001 and plan for more comprehensive changes after the season and Jeff had still failed then I would put less of the blame on Marty for the gambit and just chalk it up to a 50/50 bet that didn't turn out.

Every good coach has a few of those.

But again, Marty should have known better based on the history of the player. He allowed his ego to get in the way of his judgment.

As a broadcaster you know that Marty would have said the Redskins going into 2001 probably should get rid of the qb because he is difficult to coach and work with and has not shown himself to be a leader or a winner. Start the new regme with a clean slate, etc......

But because it was MARTY that was coming in here, he felt HE could do what others had failed to do in co-opting Jeff George and molding him into a team player and leader at the qb position.

That was just plain arrogance. Marty's real expertise was on the other side of the ball and he was counting on Jimmy Raye and his 27 year old son to put together an offensive system with this kind of potential hazard right over the horizon?

No, this was bad planning and management from the start.

To try and put a better face on it now is only going to achieve one purpose and that is to allow Marty to claim later that his early troubles in preseason and starting out 0-5 were strictly the result of players getting used to his system.

We know that is only part of the story. His inability to see trouble brewing in camp with his veteran players and head that off before it affected the team in the regular season was a major lapse.

That following on the heels of having a starting quarterback whose every body movement showed how uncomfortable he was, set the stage for the worst start in 40 years.

That start and not the 20-15 loss to the Bears or the 20-6 loss to the Eagles is the reason the Redskins are not in the playoffs, even with all the other things this team has had to overcome.

And that start is directly attributable to the behavior and lack of management, personnel skills of the HC/GM.

As I said in another post, for a 15 year HC making $10 million over 4 years, you would hope to get a guy with a better sense of his team and where his players are morale wise and work to manage his relationship with them so the team is as successful as it can be.

That clearly didn't happen here. frown.gif

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Raye vs Banks

Is Banks limited by a very conservative, unimaginative offense?

Or is Raye limited by a quarterback who hasn't been able to fully grasp the offense and lacks the ability to read his progressions in the passing game?

Theisman had some good points during the game last night on the silly timeouts the Redskins have wasted all year. In his opinion, it was the fault of the coaching staff. The calls are too wordy and it takes too long to get from Raye to Brian S and then to Banks. On one play in the red zone, Banks did not finish receiving the play call until there was 17 seconds left. There were about 10 seconds left by the time the team got lined up - then Garder was out of position and they had to burn a time out.

I don't think Raye is going anywhere, so I'm hoping we get a smarter QB next year. Maybe we can pick Mr. Wonderlick Husak up againeyebrows.gif

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If you can't be good, be good at it.

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My vote goes to Marty.

Jimmy Raye is just a scapegoat. Just last year, he coached a Chief team to over 5000 yds of offense with Grbackbreaker at QB.

Marty knew what kind of O Jimmy was bringing. But instead of landing players to fit that system, he cuts Larry Centers (the pass catching RB is a focal point of the WCO) and sticks with Mr. 10-cent-brain Jeff George. He could've at least tried to land Beuerline, Cade McNown, or even Ron Powlus or Rick Mirer--all who have had experience running this type of scheme. Instead, he hands the reins over to his under-qualified son to teach Jeff George the nuances of this complicated offense.

We know what happened next...Offensive ineptitude on a historical level.

So he cuts Jeff and signs...Tony Banks?!--Another player regarded as having a gun for an arm, but not much else. And Kent Graham had been begging to come here before all of this transpired.

The upshot to all of this is that Raye had to ditch his system and go back to a ball control scheme that limited Banks' involvement. This is akin to asking a composer of symphonic music to limit himself by using only 3 notes and 2 instruments. Maybe this is the reason why coaches like Marty (& Tony Dungy) never acquire great offenses even though they have the talent; creativity is not encouraged.

And at bottom, I think this is the offense Marty wanted all along. The West Coast Offense relies on the passing game-- the running game is not really emphasized. On the other hand, we have Stephen Davis, one returning receiver & a conservative head coach on our squad. Any GM would tell you that the these two would not mix.

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VoR, please tell me you are kidding about Powlus or Mirer being any kind of superior option for us. I'll take Banks every day before those losers. I wouldn't have minded seeing McNown, as he has the physicals that should be successful in this offense, but, certainly, Banks isn't going to be rated below him either.

Marty's mistake was going with George and not allowing George to do what George can. Again though, now much that arm injury made a difference is not something I can answer. I know it's surprising to see George not on a team anywhere though. It is somewhat possible that arm of his hurt more than we realized.

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Doom is in the box.

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Ha! Powlus and Mirer is the pits! That does make Banks attractive laugh.gif

Graham IMO is the sleeper as the solid #2 that will get better, and has the tools necessary to do what a Williams or Hoestetler can do - take a team to the playoffs as a #2.

Dilfer had Baltimore's D to keep him going. IMO, the offense has a good QB at least in the #2 spot already. That makes for better scenario than Banks. Marty really needs to address his OC coaching headache and layoff more on tinkering with it and let the OC do it. Some of his overrides to Jimmy Raye have been Horendous at times.

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