bubba9497 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Redskins May Face QB Strife Agent, Snyder to Discuss Possible Trade of Ramsey By Nunyo Demasio http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A59101-2004Feb20.html INDIANAPOLIS, Feb. 20 -- One day after completing a deal that would bring Jacksonville quarterback Mark Brunell to Washington, the Redskins on Friday confronted the prospect of a quarterback controversy between the 11-year veteran and last year's starter, Patrick Ramsey. The Redskins late Thursday struck a seven-year, $43 million deal with Brunell that would include a $8.6 million signing bonus, a strong indication the Redskins envision him as a first-string quarterback despite Coach Joe Gibbs's insistence he and Ramsey will compete for the job. Redskins owner Daniel Snyder was scheduled to talk to Ramsey's agent, Jimmy Sexton, Friday night about Ramsey's future. Sexton -- who represents three of the highest-paid Redskins -- indicated last week Ramsey would seek a trade if the Redskins acquired Brunell. According to a source close to Ramsey, Sexton was expected to request a trade during Friday's meeting here. Current Redskins said the signing of Brunell came as no surprise, given the fact that Gibbs relied on veteran quarterbacks to win three Super Bowls with the Redskins in the late 1980s and early 1990s. "I kind of knew it [the signing] was going to happen. Coach Gibbs always had veteran quarterbacks as part of his repertoire," wideout Darnerien McCants, who tied Laveranues Coles with a team-high six touchdowns last season, said Friday night. "It wasn't shocking. It was a little bit of a slap in the face to Ramsey. But he's still young. He has time to get himself together. "I heard he was trying to leave. I hope he doesn't. If Ramsey isn't the starter, I would love to have him backup. Having a strong 1 and 2 is great for the team." The Redskins have worked on Ramsey's psyche to assure him he is a crucial member of the organization and has a chance to play extensively next season. The Redskins' desire to keep Ramsey, who did not return calls seeking comment, goes beyond X's and O's. The third-year player has a salary cap-friendly contract with three years and $5.7 million left on the deal. One underlying issue with Ramsey is the money he stands to lose as a reserve. After holding out for 16 days before his rookie season even began (prompting the Redskins to nearly trade him to Chicago), Ramsey signed a contract with substantial incentives based on playing time. If Ramsey is in 50 percent of the Redskins' plays this season, a $2.5 million salary incentive is triggered. If Ramsey participates in less than half of the Redskins' plays this season, his 2005 salary is a maximum of roughly $600,000. Despite a probable loss in income, Redskins wideout Patrick Johnson said he believes Ramsey would benefit in the long run from Brunell's tutelage. Johnson, who played with Brunell in 2002, points out Brunell is the ninth-rated passer in NFL history and has the touch and ability to read NFL defenses. "I believe this is a blessing in disguise for Patrick," said Johnson. "Mark can run the two-minute drill with the best. He's a very smart guy. He's a deadly passer." However, one of Gibbs's former players, Mark May -- a tackle with the Hogs during the 1980s -- isn't enthusiastic about the decision. "Right now, everyone is falling in line with Joe Gibbs's aura, and they should," said May, the first Redskins player drafted by Gibbs -- taken No. 20 overall in 1981. "But that's a lot of money to pay someone to sit on the bench. I don't think anyone else in the league would pay [brunell] an $8 million bonus. Why do that to your quarterback's psyche? "Patrick is the most gifted quarterback that Gibbs has ever had." The Brunell brouhaha may end up being unwarranted because of his recent injury history. Brunell has suffered two concussions since 2001, and last season he lost his job after three games when he lacerated his elbow in Game 3. But Ramsey may not wait for an injury. And Gibbs has a precedent for trading a promising, young quarterback who groused about not starting. In 1986, Jay Schroeder was 25 when he guided the Redskins to their NFC championship game against the New York Giants. In 1987, Schroeder became inconsistent, causing Gibbs to replace him with veteran backup Doug Williams. That season, Williams led the Redskins to a Super Bowl victory, 42-10 over the Denver Broncos. Schroeder complained about his lost job in 1988, when Gibbs shipped him to the Los Angeles Raiders. During Gibbs's last NFL tenure, he didn't have to deal with the salary cap, which was instituted in 1993, one year after Gibbs retired. Despite the financial pressure to play Brunell, a few NFL team executives here believe Gibbs is sincere about a true competition. "When you make a decision on what you're paying a quarterback, you're making a very good calculated decision [on the starter]," New York Giants GM Ernie Accorsi said. "But Gibbs didn't win three Super Bowls because he's going to let [a contract] make a decision. The great coaches -- and he's certainly one of the greatest of all-time -- are going to play the best guy." Note: The Redskins are interested in Jim Kleinsasser, an unrestricted free agent, considered one of the best blocking tight ends in the NFL. Last season, Kleinsasser earned about $3 million, and the Minnesota Vikings say they can no longer afford him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 One underlying issue with Ramsey is the money he stands to lose as a reserve. There you go. Sexton is trying to get more money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavarleap56 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Redskins May Face QB Strife Agent, Snyder to Discuss Possible Trade of Ramsey By Nunyo Demasio Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, February 21, 2004; Page D01 INDIANAPOLIS, Feb. 20 -- One day after completing a deal that would bring Jacksonville quarterback Mark Brunell to Washington, the Redskins on Friday confronted the prospect of a quarterback controversy between the 11-year veteran and last year's starter, Patrick Ramsey. The Redskins late Thursday struck a seven-year, $43 million deal with Brunell that would include a $8.6 million signing bonus, a strong indication the Redskins envision him as a first-string quarterback despite Coach Joe Gibbs's insistence he and Ramsey will compete for the job. Redskins owner Daniel Snyder was scheduled to talk to Ramsey's agent, Jimmy Sexton, Friday night about Ramsey's future. Sexton -- who represents three of the highest-paid Redskins -- indicated last week Ramsey would seek a trade if the Redskins acquired Brunell. According to a source close to Ramsey, Sexton was expected to request a trade during Friday's meeting here. Current Redskins said the signing of Brunell came as no surprise, given the fact that Gibbs relied on veteran quarterbacks to win three Super Bowls with the Redskins in the late 1980s and early 1990s. "I kind of knew it [the signing] was going to happen. Coach Gibbs always had veteran quarterbacks as part of his repertoire," wideout Darnerien McCants, who tied Laveranues Coles with a team-high six touchdowns last season, said Friday night. "It wasn't shocking. It was a little bit of a slap in the face to Ramsey. But he's still young. He has time to get himself together. "I heard he was trying to leave. I hope he doesn't. If Ramsey isn't the starter, I would love to have him backup. Having a strong 1 and 2 is great for the team." The Redskins have worked on Ramsey's psyche to assure him he is a crucial member of the organization and has a chance to play extensively next season. The Redskins' desire to keep Ramsey, who did not return calls seeking comment, goes beyond X's and O's. The third-year player has a salary cap-friendly contract with three years and $5.7 million left on the deal. One underlying issue with Ramsey is the money he stands to lose as a reserve. After holding out for 16 days before his rookie season even began (prompting the Redskins to nearly trade him to Chicago), Ramsey signed a contract with substantial incentives based on playing time. If Ramsey is in 50 percent of the Redskins' plays this season, a $2.5 million salary incentive is triggered. If Ramsey participates in less than half of the Redskins' plays this season, his 2005 salary is a maximum of roughly $600,000. Despite a probable loss in income, Redskins wideout Patrick Johnson said he believes Ramsey would benefit in the long run from Brunell's tutelage. Johnson, who played with Brunell in 2002, points out Brunell is the ninth-rated passer in NFL history and has the touch and ability to read NFL defenses. "I believe this is a blessing in disguise for Patrick," said Johnson. "Mark can run the two-minute drill with the best. He's a very smart guy. He's a deadly passer." However, one of Gibbs's former players, Mark May -- a tackle with the Hogs during the 1980s -- isn't enthusiastic about the decision. "Right now, everyone is falling in line with Joe Gibbs's aura, and they should," said May, the first Redskins player drafted by Gibbs -- taken No. 20 overall in 1981. "But that's a lot of money to pay someone to sit on the bench. I don't think anyone else in the league would pay [brunell] an $8 million bonus. Why do that to your quarterback's psyche? "Patrick is the most gifted quarterback that Gibbs has ever had." The Brunell brouhaha may end up being unwarranted because of his recent injury history. Brunell has suffered two concussions since 2001, and last season he lost his job after three games when he lacerated his elbow in Game 3. But Ramsey may not wait for an injury. And Gibbs has a precedent for trading a promising, young quarterback who groused about not starting. In 1986, Jay Schroeder was 25 when he guided the Redskins to their NFC championship game against the New York Giants. In 1987, Schroeder became inconsistent, causing Gibbs to replace him with veteran backup Doug Williams. That season, Williams led the Redskins to a Super Bowl victory, 42-10 over the Denver Broncos. Schroeder complained about his lost job in 1988, when Gibbs shipped him to the Los Angeles Raiders. During Gibbs's last NFL tenure, he didn't have to deal with the salary cap, which was instituted in 1993, one year after Gibbs retired. Despite the financial pressure to play Brunell, a few NFL team executives here believe Gibbs is sincere about a true competition. "When you make a decision on what you're paying a quarterback, you're making a very good calculated decision [on the starter]," New York Giants GM Ernie Accorsi said. "But Gibbs didn't win three Super Bowls because he's going to let [a contract] make a decision. The great coaches -- and he's certainly one of the greatest of all-time -- are going to play the best guy." Note: The Redskins are interested in Jim Kleinsasser, an unrestricted free agent, considered one of the best blocking tight ends in the NFL. Last season, Kleinsasser earned about $3 million, and the Minnesota Vikings say they can no longer afford him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 For $3 million a year I don't think the Redskins can afford Kleinsasser either Seriously, we have too many high salaries on this club already to hire a blocking TE and pay him what we would pay a starting WR or RB. At some point the club is going to have to start unearthing those 'bargain gems', at minimum vets and undrafted free agents to come in here and make contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyRules Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I don't think so unless he becomes a cancer like Jeff George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReaper21 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 hmmm, Kleinsasser. Plays H Back, great blocker. Can catch too. I say sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Hopefully, Ramsey will grow up and use the opportunity afforded him to learn how to play QB in the NFL under Gibbs, Burns and Brunell as Patrick Johnson said in the article. PR is still a very raw player, he doesn't have much sophistication to his game. I don't think he is there yet. Might not be for another year or two. What Ramsey and the other players here are going to have to learn is that NOBODY is guaranteed anything with Gibbs. You have to prove you belong. And earn that starting spot each season. Look, this is not something that Gibbs alone is dealing with. Parcells had to make that point last season to veteran Larry Allen as well as youngsters Terrence Newman and Antonio Bryant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Kleinsasser is my offseason's top player for this team. He is the IDEAL fit. One of the game's best blockers at the spot. Has the ability to move around. Can do a little damage in the passing game. He's young enough to be good for us. I love Kleinsasser on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 but at what cost? yeah, the decision on whether to HAVE him is an easy one in terms of fit, but it's the dollars................$3 million for a blocking TE? Jimmy is going to have to settle for a lot less than that to find a home in 2004 I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Bulldog, Kleinsasser was franchised last year so he had a hefty tag. It's unlikely his cap number would get to that point again for another year or two at least. In any case, a blocking tight end is one staple of the Gibbs offense that never changed. Everything else changed. But Gibbs always had a hammer to block at the tight end spot. It may be the single most important spot in the Gibbs offense INCLUDING QB. I suspect Kleinsasser will get a contract with up to a $7 million bonus and he'll be two or three years into the deal before he's back to the franchise price of a tight end again. More than any of our other needs on offense, this is the guy who fills a need perfectly. You could argue that between the blocking tight end and defensive end it's a pretty close call as to what we need more. But, since we DO need a blocking tight end, it might not hurt to consider the game's best in the bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 So you don't think the Skins could 'get by' quite nicely in 2004 with say a bargain priced Walter Rasby type at TE? I would have to think that the DL is the top priority for the team pending the potential move of Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I think DL is a priority as I said. But there can be no mistaking the criticality of the hammer tight end in the Gibbs offense. Kleinsasser is the brute force, down in the mud type of guy that would almost IMMEDIATELY become among the team's most popular players the second he hits the field. I think we'll address both the defensive line and the blocking tight end this offseason, so I suspect we won't have to make a choice as to what's more important. But, if I had the choice between Kearse and Rasby or Daniels and Kleinsasser, I'm taking Daniels and Kleinsasser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I agree on your last point as I am not enamored of Kearse at this point. He seems to be a player that topped out early in his NFL career and then has become injury prone in recent seasons. We don't need that here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 When I read that line about Kleinsasser, I almost yelped with joy. He is THE PERFECT TIGHT END for the Gibbs system. He can play any position in the backfield, can be a short yardage guy if need be, catches great, runs great... fantastic that the FO realizes this, too. McCants is making a lot of sense: "I kind of knew it [the signing] was going to happen. Coach Gibbs always had veteran quarterbacks as part of his repertoire," wideout Darnerien McCants, who tied Laveranues Coles with a team-high six touchdowns last season, said Friday night. "It wasn't shocking. It was a little bit of a slap in the face to Ramsey. But he's still young. He has time to get himself together. "I heard he was trying to leave. I hope he doesn't. If Ramsey isn't the starter, I would love to have him backup. Having a strong 1 and 2 is great for the team." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I want Kearse and TE Erron Kinney, and by God we are gonna get em too. :laugh: The one problem with Kleinsasser is that he doesn't do anything with the ball after he catches it. He has a very pedestrian 8.9 lifetime yards per catch average after the catch. Which tells me the guy aint too fast and would be a better lumberjack. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnacpa Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I love how Gibbs is getting things done, or at least, potentially getting things done ... We have QB depth now (barring any trade of PR) If we get Kleinsasser and possible trade CB to Detroit for #6 and Rogers, and sign Kearse ... we can draft Sean Taylor, Udeze or Harris, plus go after a quality RB in the second round. The only other weakness not addressed will be the CB spot vacated by, well, CB. I am sure we will be in aggressive pursuit of either McAlister, Plummer, Woodson, or Winfield. If they aren't available, we can go after Dawkins or Taylor. I wonder if we would go after one of Philly's corners ... right now we have Brunell who knows Coughlin. It would be nice to have another rival's former player on the team for some good info, but I would rather have Woodson. We may actually get our whole Christmas list filled this year before ever reaching the 5th round in the draft!!!! This is going to be an amazing year for us!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINZ_DOMIN8 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Kleinsasser would be perfect if not for his probable salary demands. Too bad. :eaglesuck Welcome to the Redskins, Mark Brunell, our new starting Quarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citigent Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 i thought of a question when i read this does incentives go to the cap figure , because if so for the next year or two the skins will save 2.5 mil on ramsey salary , barring a injury or if ramsey wins the job? im not sure how the cap works in that regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted February 21, 2004 Author Share Posted February 21, 2004 Originally posted by ccableguy i thought of a question when i read this does incentives go to the cap figure , because if so for the next year or two the skins will save 2.5 mil on ramsey salary , barring a injury or if ramsey wins the job? im not sure how the cap works in that regards. not until the next year after, if the bonuses are obtained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70Chip Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Is it fair to say that there is fatigue on the board with Sexton's grumbling if the interest in this thread is about Kleinsasser? I haven't weighed in on the Ramsey thing yet. The solution to all of this is so easy. Keep quiet, lay low, show up at camp and blow everybody away. The fans support him (with nothing against Brunell, either). Patrick's good, and we know he's good. All he has to do is show it, and then none of this garbage means a bit. I'm totally with Kornheiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn X Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Sexton's squirming. Hopefully Snyder will tell him to squirm his ass outta everybody's sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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