bubba9497 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Acquiring Brunell Would Be A Veteran Move By Michael Wilbon Tuesday, February 10, 2004; Page D01 Of course the Washington Redskins should try to get Mark Brunell. Only a handful of teams are lucky enough to find one young quarterback, put him on the field to take every snap, and have it work out. The Patriots have Tom Brady, the Colts have Peyton Manning and the Packers still have Brett Favre. But way more often than not, a team needs two quarterbacks, both of whom can be starters, both of whom a team can depend on in the playoffs. The Rams have needed three: Trent Green, Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger. Look at the Eagles of 2002, who needed not only Donovan McNabb but also Koy Detmer and A.J. Feeley, and made it to the playoffs. Jeff Garcia was a Pro Bowl quarterback but the 49ers still needed Tim Rattay. Michael Vick and Chad Pennington couldn't play the whole season, and as a result their teams missed the playoffs. Since 1995, only two NFL quarterbacks have won more games than Brunell, who barely played last season, and that would be Favre and Steve McNair. Yes, Brunell is past his prime; he'll turn 34 in September and he missed 14 starts in his eight-year run with Jacksonville from '95 to 2002. In fact, you don't even get Brunell with the idea that he's going to start all 16 games because he's done that only twice in his career. You get Brunell because he's well-rested (only three starts in 2003, after Byron Leftwich arrived), because he probably has a couple of really good seasons in him, because he's played in and won big playoff games, including one when he got the best of John Elway in Denver. He led the Jaguars to the AFC championship game following the 1996 and 1999 seasons. You get Brunell because, while Patrick Ramsey looks promising, he's only 24, he's started just 16 NFL games, and he has yet to demonstrate (even if it's not his fault) that he can take a team into the playoffs. You also get Brunell because Joe Gibbs likes veteran quarterbacks. Just look it up. Joe Theismann was 33, then 34, when the Redskins went to back-to-back Super Bowls following the 1982 and 1983 seasons. Jay Schroeder was in his mid-20s when he started for the Redskins, but Gibbs had (and used) the security blanket of Doug Williams, who was 32 when the Redskins won the Super Bowl after the 1987 season. Even Mark Rypien was 29 years old when he led the Redskins to the Super Bowl following the 1991 season. Clearly, Gibbs is most comfortable when he has a veteran quarterback and when his young quarterbacks (remember Rypien and Stan Humphries) have had long apprenticeships. And you don't bring Gibbs back to coach and have him uncomfortable with his triggerman. Is this going to retard the growth of Ramsey? Probably not. What quarterback who played for Gibbs had his growth retarded? Not Rypien. Not Humphries, who led the Chargers to a Super Bowl. First of all, if Ramsey's as good as many of us think, maybe he beats out Brunell for the starting job. And if not, he sits and learns for another year or two. Brunell wouldn't come for the long haul. With his mileage, the future is this minute. If Brunell comes to Washington and starts for two full seasons, Ramsey would still have a chance to reclaim the starting job by the time he turns 27. And if he does come, he doesn't come in as a locker room-dividing lightning rod. He's not Jeff George. My reservation about getting Brunell is this: The price seems fairly steep. You don't just throw away second-round draft picks in the NFL, which reportedly is what it's going to take to complete this trade with Jacksonville to get him. A second-round choice ought to become a starter in the NFL, and fairly quickly at that. The Redskins need a defensive tackle, a pass rusher, a safety and, one would think, a running back. Some of the shopping can be done through free agency, but not all of it. A second-round pick ought to be a five-year starter at the very least. Brunell isn't going to be a five-year starter, so there is the issue of value. But there's also the issue of competition. Is it worth a second-round pick to the Redskins to get Brunell and keep him away from the Dallas Cowboys? Does the deal become sweeter when you strengthen your own team while hurting your primary rival? This isn't just about whether the Redskins want Brunell; there's also the matter of how badly Brunell wants to be a starter. There's every chance he could come here and be beaten out by Ramsey. There's a much better chance, should he go to Dallas, that Brunell will be the starter, maybe go unchallenged for a spell. I like Quincy Carter and it appears he made major strides last year under Bill Parcells. But only a fool would think the Cowboys aren't going to upgrade at the quarterback position and Brunell is an upgrade. What's missing from Brunell's résumé is a trip to the Super Bowl. He's been to the Pro Bowl three times. He's proven he could evolve from an ath-a-lete to a passer, reducing his rushing attempts from 80 (for 396 yards and three touchdowns in '96) to 39 (for 224 yards) in 2001. Maybe he looks at Gibbs and sees a devout man, as he is, and a coach whose philosophy begins with protecting the quarterback, and figures he wants to play for this particular team and for this particular coach. From what I know of Brunell and Gibbs, they seem like quite the match. It would be an interesting first recruit for Gibbs. He didn't do much of this kind of thing, if any at all, in his first go-round as an NFL coach. My bet is his recruiting skills are as sharp as anybody's. Sit with Gibbs for an hour and you have zero chance of telling him no. Now, whether he has a good GM's eye for talent only time will tell. But these sets of circumstances are what test the men who try to both acquire the talent and coach it. Can Brunell still bring it like he did in '99? If not, is he willing to accept demotion and be an able backup and tutor to Ramsey? And is a second-round draft pick too much to give up, even if it hurts Dallas, too? What's not in question is whether Brunell somehow clutters the backfield. You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too many quarterbacks who can play. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27043-2004Feb9.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 Acquiring Brunell Would Be A Veteran Move By Michael Wilbon Tuesday, February 10, 2004; Page D01 My reservation about getting Brunell is this: The price seems fairly steep. You don't just throw away second-round draft picks in the NFL, which reportedly is what it's going to take to complete this trade with Jacksonville to get him. A second-round choice ought to become a starter in the NFL, and fairly quickly at that. Ever hear of Ladell Betts? The skins are experts of wasting 2nd round and 1st round picks for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I'm sorry, I don't see how this is a step forward, not only do we get a QB who has no repore with the team, but we have to bench the best QB this team has had in over 10 years in favor of a guy who is no better than PR. Then we loose, like 8 mill on the cap AND give up a 2nd rounder? Is Brunell that much of an upgrade over Pat, or even Tim H.? I sure hope that if the move goes down, this post can get thrown back in my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvoSkins Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I do agree with Wilbon about it necessary to have tow competent QBs and that a second rounder is too steep. With the competition from other teams, a first rounder may be dealt for him. It will be interesting to see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie Robertson Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I say, don't worry. I think that Coach Gibbs made it perfectly clear to Brunell that if he comes to DC he will be Patrick's backup. Hasselbeck will be No.3. Hamden has already been deallt to NFL Europe and will never see another Redskin uniform unless he is being sacked somewhere down the road. I think it is a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WM_Marylander Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 For the Betts and Jacobs pick, we've also got Smoot and Jansen. Not everyone we've picked in the 2nd round has been bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posse81 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Wilbon actually makes a pretty strong case for bringing in Brunell. Like most others, I just don't want them to trade Ramsey. Robbie Robertson- Welcome aboard and nice name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by panel but we have to bench the best QB this team has had in over 10 years in favor of a guy who is no better than PR. I would say Johnson is better then PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by WM_Marylander For the Betts and Jacobs pick, we've also got Smoot and Jansen. Not everyone we've picked in the 2nd round has been bad Betts and Jacobs have barely been on the field and Smoot was a shotty pick. Jansen I believe was Casserly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Robbie Robertson I say, don't worry. I think that Coach Gibbs made it perfectly clear to Brunell that if he comes to DC he will be Patrick's backup. Gibbs wouldn't be giving up a second round pick to be a backup :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Brasi Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 This article actually brings a lot of reason and common sense into the equation that we, as Ramsey supporters, are not seeing. The one thing that all of us are clearly against is a trade that involves losing Ramsey. That, in my opinion, is not even a thought in any of our coaches or front office people's minds. Patrick has started 16 games. 16 games under a coach that didn't understand football at the NFL level. Brunell has more experience, and has had great success in the NFL. I believe Ramsey has more raw talent then Brunell, or most qb's for that matter, but most times, the most important thing you can have going for you is good decision making and experience. That usually only comes with lots of time under good coaching. I am starting to think that a year under Gibbs/Brunell good be the best thing to ever happen to Ramsey. If Patrick beats Brunell out in training camp, then I'm all for it. But good decisions and experience are something that will win more games than a cannon arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddlerdurden Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Wilbon is always excellent at articulating his point. I actually still disagree with the decision to bring Brunell in though, because I do believe (unless something isn't being reported) that it will stunt the growth of Ramsey. Sure, he can sit behind Brunell for two years -- but this is the era of free-agency and come 2006, if Ramsey feels he's likely to be benched in favor of another veteran, he's just going to skip town. And I don't think Brunell would be happy here, because I do think Ramsey would win a QB Competition in camp...with both QBs being first-years in Gibbs system, what good mentoring does Brunell offer? A 2nd Round pick is a high price to pay for someone to tap Ramsey on the back and say good job. Now, if he doesn't mind coming here and being #2 -- I'm completely down for his arrival. Something tells me this doesn't get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Robbie Robertson I say, don't worry. I think that Coach Gibbs made it perfectly clear to Brunell that if he comes to DC he will be Patrick's backup. Hasselbeck will be No.3. Hamden has already been deallt to NFL Europe and will never see another Redskin uniform unless he is being sacked somewhere down the road. I think it is a good move. First of all, the Gibbs that we all know doesn't guarantee playing time or roles to anyone. He wants the best performer to win the job. If that means Ramsey being Brunell's backup then that's how it'll be. The best man will win the starting job. Secondly, NFL teams send their players to NFL Europe to develop, not to get rid of them. He may never see a redskins uniform on gameday, but the Skins didn't just "deal" him away to NFL Europe, he's their for a purpose, which is to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvan Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 same old topic...different thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by Robbie Robertson I say, don't worry. I think that Coach Gibbs made it perfectly clear to Brunell that if he comes to DC he will be Patrick's backup. Hasselbeck will be No.3. Hamden has already been deallt to NFL Europe and will never see another Redskin uniform unless he is being sacked somewhere down the road. I think it is a good move. I don't think there will be a place on Joe Gibbs' team for Hasselbeck. I cannot think of one weak-armed QB that Joe Gibbs has ever had on his roster. It's amazing to me that Hasselbek is even in the NFL. The guy looked absolutely pitiful at times last year throwing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 RF4L, I actually completely disagree. I think if we add Brunnell it increases the odds that Tim is our #3 QB. He's good enough to be 3rd on the depth chart IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Doesn't Wilbon dislike Ramsey, though? BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Originally posted by BD Doesn't Wilbon dislike Ramsey, though? BD What?!?!? I don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 The way Delhomme and Kurt Warner progressed through their NFL Europe experience we should maybe be looking for Hamsandwich to be leading us into the Superbowl next year or the year after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 The way Delhomme and Kurt Warner progressed through their NFL Europe experience we should maybe be looking for Hamsandwich to be leading us into the Superbowl next year or the year after. that's if he can lead them his nfle team to a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown 43 Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 People, Brunell will be playing with us for about 3 years. After that time Ramsey will have the offense down PAT (ha ha), he will be 27 and kicking booty for us for the next 8 years! He will even see time during Brunells three years also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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