Buddha Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 I recently moved into a house that has a pre-installed CAT-5 cabling system for telephone, computer, and cable/satellite. I am trying to network my new computer (running XP) with my old computer (running WIN 98SE), but I'm having problems. Here is what I have done so far... 1. Set up a network connection on the XP computer 2. Used the XP disk to run the network connection wizard on the 98SE computer per the instructions given under XP. 3. Plugged in all network cables into their respective jacks. The problem is that the XP computer is saying, under Local Area Connection, that a network cable is unplugged. Therefore, I see no network places on the 98SE computer. I assume what I am trying to set up is a peer-to-peer network. Unfortunately, XP's help section has no reference to peer-to-peer networks. I'm afraid that my XP computer is trying to look for a server and thinks the cable is unplugged because it cannot find a server. Would someone PLEASE help me??? Mrs. Buddha gave me a lot of sh!t for choosing this option on our home instead of a larger deck. She may kill me if I can't get this network running... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallyG3 Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Are you using a router? You can't run a network connection directly from one PC to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted February 7, 2004 Author Share Posted February 7, 2004 Ah, so I'm missing another piece of hardware... It doesn't work like a direct cable connection??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Nope. You need a router. Fortunately they are cheap. I use a Belkin internet router. Zero set up (on a mac- not sure about PCs) and it shares my cable modem with all of my computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Buddha Ah, so I'm missing another piece of hardware... It doesn't work like a direct cable connection??? Buddha - You need to get what's called an Ethernet hub or switch. Usually they are available for as low as $25 or so at any major electronics/computer/office store. Simply connect your CAT 5 cables into said device and the physical setup is complete. From there, you just need to to configure your Windows boxes into a logical workgroup and setup your network interfaces on each PC (i.e. TCP/IP settings). Or you could get a router with a builtin hub or switch - best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turdfurguson Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Or you could use 2 nics ( if you have 1 extra lying around) in the main machine and have one for the internet and 1 for the internal network. All you have to do is use ICS Internet connection sharing on the XP machine and use your setup disk on the 98 machine and tell it that it will connect through the XP machine using ICS. Your ISP will not see the other machine because xp will hand out IP address using DHCP automatically. But you must run a firewall on the internet connection XP has a built in feature. But there are some free ones out there Zonealarm ect. This set up worked fine for me until I got a router. That is the best way to go. If you used a hub with just one nic your isp might not like that and charge you extra for the added IP address your other machine (s) will need. I have 4 machines 2 machines set up to dual boot 1 is win 98 and 2000 server and another machine dual boots XP home and 2000 pro. the 3rd is 98 Se and the 4th is XP home. Ialso have 2 networked printers. It works great back ups are simple and sharing with the others is easy. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Will something like this work??? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384171495&skuId=3906544&type=product&cmp=%20%20 DSL isn't available in my neighborhood just yet, but it should be within the next few months. I want to make sure I don't buy the wrong kind of hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101_proof Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I would get this one. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=33-124-007&catalog=28&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0 Are you close to Fredericksburg? I can come out and set you up and I also have a old network hub you can use until your dsl line is setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Definitely get the DSL/Cable router rather than just a hub. Otherwise you will need two NIC cards and a software router to share your connection, plus the computer acting as the router will have to be on for the other machine to acces the internet. I went the sotware router routine with a simple hub for awhile before the cable routers became cheap and available and while it worked OK, it could be a pain and there was a lot of set up time. The Cable router is a breaze to set up and you will love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Some things to check: Unlike phone wiring, where all the jacks in your place are connected to each other, ethernet cabling strictly goes from one jack to another jack. (The plan is that this central place is where the hub goes.) This means that the two jacks you're using may not be connected to each other, but instead, all the jacks in your place go to a panel located somewhere (in a closet or some such) where there are a bunch of jacks (one corresponding to each room in your place). (If this is an apartment building, then the central place may not be in your apartment, but may be shared among all the units in your building.) In short, both your units may be plugged into a cable which goes to a closet somewhere, and there's nothing on the other end of the wire. A good diagnostic you can use is: Most network cards have a few LEDs on them. One of them (called the "link light") indicates (when it's lit) that the the NIC detects another NIC, powered on, at the other end of the wire. (And that the wire has the correct configuration). If neither NIC is showing a link light, the most likely cause is a cabling problem. Technically, it is not necessary to have a hub (or a switch, which you can think of as simply another kind of hub) in your network. However, you do need a hub in almost every case. (And, they're cheap, and make troubleshooting a lot easier. If the only things on your network are two devices (two computers, or one PC and one printer, or a PC and a DSL modem) then it's possible all you meed is a crossover cable (or adaptor, or some such). (The crossover is needed because, otherwise, both devices will be trying to "talk" on the same wire, and they'll both be "listening" on a wire that nobody's talking on.) (You don't use a crossover to connect a PC to a hub, because their jacks are wired oppositly. You use a crossover to connect a PC to another PC, or a hub to a hub.) (Also note: most hubs have one jack that's wired like a PC, so the hub can be connected to another hub without a crossover. This jack is typically labeled "uplink". Often the hub will have two jacks which are only considered one device. {A five-port hub will have six jacks, labled 1-4 and two labled 5. One of the lacks labeled 5 is wired like a hub, the other is wired like a PC. Only one of the lacks labeled 5 can be used.}) You might want to consider getting a small hub (or switch) simply because it doesn't cost much, it makes troubleshooting a lot easier, and if you ever add a third device to the network you'll need one, anyway. If you have a hub, my suggestion is to simply connect one PC to the hub, and see if you get lights on both the hub and the PC. (If you don't get lights, try using the "uplink" port on the hub: If that works, then there's a crossover of some kind between the PC and the hub.) If you do, then you can try to connect the other PC to the hub (just carry the hub to the second PC and try it), and then you can try connecting one PC to the hub via the built-in wiring. In short, the hub (and the LEDs on the hub and NIC) can be used as a diagnostic tool to narrow this problem down to a PC or a wiring problem. (And, after we've got all the right blinky lights, then we can enter the wonderfull world of IP protocol configuration.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 And Mike's got a point: Many places stock a box (Linksys makes a popular one) that contains a hub and a router (a device that allows all the devices on your network to access the DSL/cable modem/T1/whatever to access the internet). Although right now, all you're trying to do is troubleshoot the wiring and get a connection, as soon as that's working, you're going to want to get your network connected to the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by 101_proof I would get this one. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=33-124-007&catalog=28&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=0 Are you close to Fredericksburg? I can come out and set you up and I also have a old network hub you can use until your dsl line is setup. Thanks for the offer, but I live about 2 hours from Dead Fred. I got impatient and picked up the more basic model today. I did see the one you mentioned-- looked a little bit much for what I'm trying to set up here. But thanks for the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Larry Some things to check: Unlike phone wiring, where all the jacks in your place are connected to each other, ethernet cabling strictly goes from one jack to another jack. (The plan is that this central place is where the hub goes.) This means that the two jacks you're using may not be connected to each other, but instead, all the jacks in your place go to a panel located somewhere (in a closet or some such) where there are a bunch of jacks (one corresponding to each room in your place). (If this is an apartment building, then the central place may not be in your apartment, but may be shared among all the units in your building.) In short, both your units may be plugged into a cable which goes to a closet somewhere, and there's nothing on the other end of the wire. A good diagnostic you can use is: Most network cards have a few LEDs on them. One of them (called the "link light") indicates (when it's lit) that the the NIC detects another NIC, powered on, at the other end of the wire. (And that the wire has the correct configuration). If neither NIC is showing a link light, the most likely cause is a cabling problem. Technically, it is not necessary to have a hub (or a switch, which you can think of as simply another kind of hub) in your network. However, you do need a hub in almost every case. (And, they're cheap, and make troubleshooting a lot easier. If the only things on your network are two devices (two computers, or one PC and one printer, or a PC and a DSL modem) then it's possible all you meed is a crossover cable (or adaptor, or some such). (The crossover is needed because, otherwise, both devices will be trying to "talk" on the same wire, and they'll both be "listening" on a wire that nobody's talking on.) (You don't use a crossover to connect a PC to a hub, because their jacks are wired oppositly. You use a crossover to connect a PC to another PC, or a hub to a hub.) (Also note: most hubs have one jack that's wired like a PC, so the hub can be connected to another hub without a crossover. This jack is typically labeled "uplink". Often the hub will have two jacks which are only considered one device. {A five-port hub will have six jacks, labled 1-4 and two labled 5. One of the lacks labeled 5 is wired like a hub, the other is wired like a PC. Only one of the lacks labeled 5 can be used.}) You might want to consider getting a small hub (or switch) simply because it doesn't cost much, it makes troubleshooting a lot easier, and if you ever add a third device to the network you'll need one, anyway. If you have a hub, my suggestion is to simply connect one PC to the hub, and see if you get lights on both the hub and the PC. (If you don't get lights, try using the "uplink" port on the hub: If that works, then there's a crossover of some kind between the PC and the hub.) If you do, then you can try to connect the other PC to the hub (just carry the hub to the second PC and try it), and then you can try connecting one PC to the hub via the built-in wiring. In short, the hub (and the LEDs on the hub and NIC) can be used as a diagnostic tool to narrow this problem down to a PC or a wiring problem. (And, after we've got all the right blinky lights, then we can enter the wonderfull world of IP protocol configuration.) I think I have run into the problem you mentioned above. All the cables go into a panel box in my garage. I was hoping to find one wire in there that I could plug the router into, but all the network cables are split open into their individual wires and connected by long white plastic thingies. I connected the router directly to my main computer and am no longer getting the "network cable unplugged" message, but I cannot find the other computer on the network anywhere. I have one solid amber light and one blinking yellow light on my computer, and no lights at all on the other computer. Looks like I'm going to have to get the installer out here to do something at the panel box... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Any way you can skip the panel and plug the machines into the router directly as a test? That way you can elimintate the posibility that it is a configuration problem first. Although Cat 5 cable can be crimped and cause problems, usualy it is a simple configuration problem with one machine or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Originally posted by Buddha Will something like this work??? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384171495&skuId=3906544&type=product&cmp=%20%20 DSL isn't available in my neighborhood just yet, but it should be within the next few months. I want to make sure I don't buy the wrong kind of hardware. THat is exactly what I use here Buddha. But DAMMIT I PAID LIKE $100 for it 2 years ago!!!!!!!!! Do you have a cable modem though? If you aren't trying to share internet, you can still set everything up to share on a network without the cable. It's pretty easy, but I don't quite follow what kind of setup you have there at your house. If it helps-- we have the cable modem in one room hooked up to a specific port in the Router. Can't remember what it's called. Then the rest of the comps in the house, three of them, all plug directly into the ports on the router. You set up the interface/software through a little software program you can acess from any computer thats hooked to it, and bam you are up and running. Hope that contributes to solving the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turdfurguson Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Remember the IP address you had for your computer (the one your ISP hands out to you) is now the routers IP address. Depending on if you have a static or dynamic IP address. I have a D link router and you have to configure it on the web page by putting in the address of your computers new IP address (the new IP address that router hands out to all computers connected to it.) Also if you have trouble seeing the other machines you may have to make sure your TCP/IP is set to get a address automaticly from the router. If you have the IP and subnet mask entered it will not work. Another thing you can try is force the router to find all the Hardware addresses of your NICs call MAC addresses. then power down the unit and power it back on it should find all the nics installed. After that you get to configure the ports for access...Yeah good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 It sounds, from your description, like your wiring goes from the individual rooms to a "punchdown block". At that point, it sounds like the cable is split into individual wires, which are them pushed on to individual metal "tabs", which actually make contact with the conductors without actually having to strip the wires. FWIW, Home Depot sells tools, connectors, and so forth for working with home (and commercial) wiring panels. (What they don't seem to have is a lot of instructions.) (My local Home Depot has two different areas for electrical things: One with outlets, circuit breakers, and so forth, and another with light fixtures, home intercoms, telephones, and low-voltage landscape lighting. The home network tools are in the second department, along with tools for wiring telephones and cable TV. It's possible that all you need is a panel to turn the wiring you've got in the closet into RJ-45 jacks. One other option: Instead of getting a cable/DSL router to act as the center of your network and gateway to the Internet, Linksys (and, no doubt lots of others) make a bax that has all of those abilities and a WAP. (The "base station" for a wireless network). With that and a wireless NIC in the 2nd system, then you don't need wiring in your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by Buddha Ah, so I'm missing another piece of hardware... It doesn't work like a direct cable connection??? you need a router to connect the computers, i would recommend a router and firewall to be safe, if you get a wireless router which you can tell the wife if she has a laptop from work she can do some work right from the chair in the living room make sure you encrypt the wireless signal though, a lot of people don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma make sure you encrypt the wireless signal though, a lot of people don't There are son security things you may want to think about for your network. Some of them are particulary important with a wireless network. About wireless networks: Remember, if you don't have security on the WAB (the "base station") then anybody with a laptop and a wireless NIC can park in front of your house, and he's on your network. Depending on how things are set up, he can access the hard drives of your computers. He may well be able to send spam (or child porn, or whatever) via your e-mail account. If you network's not encrypted, then he can (with the right software) monitor the data passing back and forth on the network. For anybody on a peer-to-peer network: If you chose to share files from one computer to another, (your word processing docs, pictures, whatever), Windows makes it easy for your computers to "share" their hard drives. One good security proceedure: Don't share the whole drive. (Don't just click on drive C: and say to share it. Create a folder named "Shared" or some such and share that folder. {I think WinXP even creates such a folder by default}) That way, somebody who gets to your network (or if one of your systems gets a virus) can't modify Windows on the other computers. (The only thing they can get at are the things you wanted to share.) Create an Administrator password. By default, most modern versions of Windows come with one user created on the system, named "Administrator". This user has unlimited authority, and his password is blank. This user is pre-installed by Microsoft as part of Windows. (He's the user who has permission to create other users.) If someone manages to get to your computer via a network, your computer will demand a user name and password. Guess what user name and password the hacker will try first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 Thanks for all the input. I found out that the installer has to put in patch cables at the junction box in order for the wiring to be networked. Don't know why the package didn't come with it in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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