bubba9497 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Hall case for Monk has holes JOHN MARKON POINT OF VIEW: Feb 4, 2004 Contact John Markon at (804) 649-6892 or jmarkon @timesdispatch.com For Washington Redskins fans, the most revealing moment of Super Bowl XXXVIII came more than a full day before Janet Jackson took the stage. A look into the future was provided on Saturday morning, when former Redskins wide receiver Art Monk, one of 15 semifinalists, was a first-round cut as 39 voters selected John Elway, Barry Sanders, Carl Eller and Bob "Boomer" Brown as this year's entries into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. In his fourth year of eligibility, Monk seems to be inching farther away from actual election. This follows a pattern established by former teammates Russ Grimm and Joe Jacoby, who were fairly hot candidates in their first few years but eventually faded into a position where it's now unlikely that either will be awarded a hall pass. T hey were all major figures in coach Joe Gibbs' first tenure with the Redskins. From 1981 through 1992, Washington played in four Super Bowls, winning three, and five NFC championship games, accomplishments that seem destined not to be reflected by a high count of Hall of Fame members. Running back John Riggins, who spent half his career with the New York Jets, is in and Gibbs is in. Cornerback Darrell Green, who isn't eligible until 2008, should also be in. Just two players, and that might be it. Offensive linemen Grimm and Jacoby haven't been finalists in recent years and may have to wait for reconsideration by the Veterans Committee, which tends to specialize in players at non-glamour positions. Grimm's game was more well-rounded. Jacoby had a longer career. By hall standards, neither one's an easy sell. Gibbs always has believed Monk was a no-brainer selection. Monk accounted for more career receiving yards (12,721) than all but two of the 17 wide receivers currently boasting a bust in Canton. With 940 career receptions, Monk has 121 more catches than anyone in the Hall of Fame. Monk was a big receiver who didn't have outstanding speed or double on kick returns but was an excellent blocker. In 1984, when he caught 106 passes for 1,372 yards, a case could be made that, if only for one season, Monk was the NFL's premier player at his position. So, why's he out? Monk's total of 68 career touchdowns is very low for a Hall of Famer. He was a move-the-chains type receiver who caught a lot of 4-yard passes. For much of his tenure with the Redskins, Monk played with other receivers - Charlie Brown, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders - who had more big-play ability and probably were more feared by opponents. Pro Bowl voting is another Monk negative. Only one Hall of Fame receiver played in fewer than Monk's three career Pro Bowls. Consider that the late Bob Hayes, who's also not in the hall, played five fewer seasons than Monk and caught 569 fewer passes but scored eight more touchdowns. Monk had 121 more receptions than did Steve Largent, who was never accused of having breakaway speed but scored 33 fewer touchdowns. Cris Carter, who had many of Monk's skills, retired with 130 TD catches. Marvin Harrison and Terrell Owens, only eight years into their careers, already have scored 83 and 81 touchdowns. In only six years, Randy Moss has 77 TD receptions. Monk caught the first wave of pass-oriented offenses in the 1980s, but his numbers will not improve with age. Monk's advocates always make the argument that Monk went to just as many Pro Bowls, won more titles, had more catches, more yards and even more touchdowns (68-65) than did Charlie Joiner, who was a controversial hall selection in 1996. Monk was a "no comment" guy with writers and broadcasters, who happen to do the hall voting, but that's not what's keeping him out. Several players who were much more unpleasant to deal with are in. Voting by players, not writers, kept Monk out of all those Pro Bowls. I saw maybe two-thirds of the games Monk played. I consider him a qualified but borderline Hall of Famer, a better choice than Joiner and a few other marginal selections but in no way automatic. He isn't the best player or even the best receiver currently not in the hall. As a candidate, his best opportunities may have arrived and departed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 Monk's total of 68 career touchdowns is very low for a Hall of Famer. He was a move-the-chains type receiver who caught a lot of 4-yard passes. Monk was a "no comment" guy with writers and broadcasters, who happen to do the hall voting, but that's not what's keeping him out. Several players who were much more unpleasant to deal with are in. Voting by players, not writers, kept Monk out of all those Pro Bowls. Two sentences stand out for me. First, does anyone know where I can find stats for actual "yards per catch" to verify this guys claim that Monk had alot of "4 yard passes". Not average yards per catch but "actual" yard per catch. Secondly, this guy implies some sort of subtle professional vendetta against Monk because as an introvert he didn't want to talk to the media. If true on his "unpleseant" comment then this really does claify what a political process this HOF thing is. Additionally, it illuminates what adgendas these so called "sports" writers actually have. But given the info that has come out after this years fiasco that's not too hard to believe anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 The only "holes" are in this guys head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by aREDSKIN Two sentences stand out for me. First, does anyone know where I can find stats for actual "yards per catch" to verify this guys claim that Monk had alot of "4 yard passes". His YPC for his career is 13.5 which is very low for a WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma His YPC for his career is 13.5 which is very low for a WR Well that stat is an average not "actual" yards per catch. I want a stat on "actual" yards per catch to verify this bozo's claim that Monk caught a lot of 4 yard passes. Additionally, 13.5 ypc is not that far away from Joiner's 16.2, Stallworth's 16.2 and Swann's 16.0 ypc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatFischer37 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 who would you rather have on your team, a guy like Monk whose unselfish play got his team to four Super Bowl appearances in less than 10 yrs or a Cris Carter, Terrell Owens, Randy Moss who despite making enormous amounts of catches and touchdowns...couldnt get their teams clutch catches in big games to win championships This is the curse of being on good teams and not having the stats to match up with those who are on bad teams and can rack up the stats Ask James Lofton who got in last year about how many rings he has with his years with GB, LA Raiders, and Buffalo....none, he watched the Skins beat his only shot a title, yet he is in the Hall How about Lynn Swann and J. Stallworth taking so long to get in. 4 rings didnt get them in any faster....they just won, that is their penalty. Barry Sanders is the latest. Unbelievable stats, breakaway capability, lost in the NFC Championship to the Skins in '92...had 4 yds rushing that glorious day I hear that when Andre Reed comes up for his first ballot, he is a sure thing...how can you elect Reed, again with no SB rings over Monk??? Sorry Art, unless you played for Lombardi's Packers, the HOF doesnt like you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 And apparantly Monk wasn't a big game player, yet his playoff ypc was 15.4 ... two yards more than his regular season average. Odd that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by bubba9497 Hall case for Monk has holes Pro Bowl voting is another Monk negative. Only one Hall of Fame receiver played in fewer than Monk's three career Pro Bowls. This is another specious factoid offerd as worthy. Lynn Swann, John Stallworth and Charlie Joiner all have been in exactly "3" career pro bowls. To diminish Monk's accomplishments would also diminish their's too. Somehow I don't think he wants to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Here's the top five reception leaders of all time. Jerry Rice's average per catch is 14.8 yards. Cris Carter .. 12.6. Tim Brown.. 13.8 Andre Reed 13.9 Art Monk .. 13.1 So, any more stupid arguments? These Sportswriters and every other detractor needs to just shut up. You're wrong, period. The man deserves enshrinement. Again, more receptions than ANY receiver currently in the hall, and STILL 5th all time on the list. Seriously,, enough. The idiots have won, he's not in. Now be secure in the knowledge that if you support such a thing, you're a fool. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 13.5 is low for Randy Moss. Can we please put this Monk's era into context. Monk should be in just on the merit he was an intrecal part of three super bowls. What about his average of over a hundred yards in the SB. This is a joke, and stop defending a bs hall that lets Ellerd and Brown in before Jim Marshall. It's a joke plain an simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted February 5, 2004 Author Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Bang Here's the top five reception leaders of all time. Jerry Rice's average per catch is 14.8 yards. Cris Carter .. 12.6. Tim Brown.. 13.8 Andre Reed 13.9 Art Monk .. 13.1 So, any more stupid arguments? These Sportswriters and every other detractor needs to just shut up. You're wrong, period. The man deserves enshrinement. Again, more receptions than ANY receiver currently in the hall, and STILL 5th all time on the list. ~Bang :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Peter King will choke on his mooca latte when he reads that. I guess he will need to make up another BS stat to keep Redskin Monk off his Giant loving, Redskin Hating ballot. the putz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Bang Here's the top five reception leaders of all time. Jerry Rice's average per catch is 14.8 yards. Cris Carter .. 12.6. Tim Brown.. 13.8 Andre Reed 13.9 Art Monk .. 13.1 Bang first off Carter and Rice have a gazillion td's. Brown and Reed last I checked are not in the HOF. The only for sure HOF's on this list are Carter and Rice, Brown might be but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I think Monk should be in the HOF but only the "Great" ones like Elway or Sanders will get in early, everyone else it takes time. Swann took 15 years so we have to think for Monk it will take 10 or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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