Reaganaut Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 There is a great deal of discussion about who Gibbs will pick up as running back for the next season. Most people have questions about Betts and Canidate regarding their size and ability to start for Gibbs. I would like to remind people that these backs were featured under a coach last year who ran Stephen Davis for about half the yards he gained in 2003 on his way to the Superbowl. If we didn't have the advantage of hindsight into Davis' previous skill at running back, might we be questioning some of the same things about him as we are for Betts and Canidate. Admittedly, his size is better than Betts or Canidate, but to judge them on their performance last year is equally as unfair as judging Stephen Davis' performance the year before. Clearly, Spurrier gets substandard performance out of backs. I strongly believe that the Redskins are "good enough" at many positions such as running back and need to focus on getting smart tight ends and defensive lineman plain and simple. It will take a couple years to get the pieces in place to fix the defensive line through the draft and free agency. Focusing on running back now is a little like focusing on speed receivers last year. McCants turned out to play just fine and in the end Coles didn't make the difference between a winning season and a losing season. The great teams have awesome defensive lines. Stephen Davis was hurt last week and the Panthers still blew out the Eagles. That should tell you something about the importance of a great back. We can't waste another season on any other position than lineman plain and simple. Gibbs will get his tight ends relatively inexpensively, but we simply have to get players up front in order to give the Skins a chance at the playoffs. Where is our Strahan? Douglas? Kearse? Peppers? I'd cut Bailey loose to pick up a great young lineman plus an up and comer like a Kalu. The Skins always had a Mayhew to a Green. Smoot will be the shut down corner and we have bigger problems on the line than cornerback. Bailey is too rich for our blood now. I will have serious questions about this organization if they do not immediately deal with the horrible defensive line. We will know soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVskinsfan Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I agree to a point! The coaching here lasy year was absolutley atrocoius...no doubt about it! This is a PROFESSIONAL coaching staff we are assembling NOW! We maybe able to re-install the winning mentality and the toughness to "suck it up" when a player gets hurt. Not the pansies that played for the FLORIDA MISTAKE! the"DROP BACK AND GET SACKED" INSTEAD OF THE FUN & GUN! We are going to be running a PRO offense again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 It seems so long ago, but back at the beginning of this season, when Betts and Canidate were both healthy, they were a fairly decent one-two combination. Though it would be awfully sweet to have a Kevin Jones or a Steven Jackson on the squad. Even Greg Jones. As to whether RB is a priority, it all comes down to filling in needs and how it's done - through the draft, through FA, through trade, or from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 That's a great way to look at it. It's only fair to view the Betts/Canidate production in terms of what Davis did under Spurrier. I believe that Gibb's strong point is that he gets the most out of the players that he has. Betts may have the starting role, while Canidate spells him, changes the pace a bit. Although I do beleive depth is an important part of any team, what the DL needs is a 'playmaker.' We need one big personality to lead the line. While we have some decent players (Noble?, Upshaw), no one in the current group can really step up and lead...like a Sapp, like a Kearse. That's what we desperately need. IMO, Peppers became the player that brought his line together. I realize that Rucker and co. are not slouches, but I believe they stepped-up their intensity to match Peppers' playing ability, and that's why they excelled this season. Bailey is a great player though. And, if he is committed to staying on board, he can sign a long-term agreement that would not affect the cap as much as initially thought. If he does leave though, that will be ironic; he will obviously be leaving because of the instability and mediocrity this franchise has experienced as of late; it will be too bad for him if he leaves and has to face-off against the newly-born NFC powerhouse Redskins under Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Though it would be awfully sweet to have a Kevin Jones or a Steven Jackson on the squad. Agreed, but at what price? Would you keep Lionel Dalton to upgrade at running back this year? What running back has made a difference in the playoffs this year? Did Jamal Lewis make a difference for Baltimore? I see this differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I like Betts, if he can stay healthy and follow the blocks laid by the new Hogs, he could be the workhorse and we could spend the money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I don't think that Trung will make through training camp, unless he puts on some weight and improves his blocking significantly. The logical thing to do concerning Betts is to give him every chance under Gibbs, especially since his opportunities have been limited thus far and the team spent a second rounder on him. There are relevant concerns about his toughness and durability, but a fractured arm isn't something you bounce back from. I think Gibbs will see enough to take a chance on the guy, as Betts in many ways is a Byner clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Bailey is a great player though. And, if he is committed to staying on board, he can sign a long-term agreement that would not affect the cap as much as initially thought. Why hasn't this deal gotten done already then? I'm not sure the long term deal is the panacea for every cap problem. I'd rather sign a couple great lineman to long term deals than Bailey. He hasn't made the difference on this team during his tenure here, where Darrell Gardener had an enormous impact - the difference between 5 and 23 as far as ranking. Who was more valuable then, Bailey or Gardener? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by Reaganaut Why hasn't this deal gotten done already then? Because it's still January. Free Agency is still weeks away. Simmer down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 The smart money right now says Bailey is a franchise player next season. This may be the lesser of all evils, but with Troy Vincent and Charles Woodson on the free agency roles this year, how many teams are going to give the Skins two draft picks for Bailey? I'd like to keep him, really, but at what cost? I have a couple hundred dollars worth of Bailey rookie cards with a skins uniform on, believe me, I do not take this lightly. He is still my favorite player on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I understand the sentiment, but I think you are mistaken if you actually believe that Joe Gibbs will go with the same group of RBs next season. While Betts and Canidate flashed, they did not show the kind of consistancy or toughness Gibbs requires from his RBs, especially in the area of pass blocking. Maybe Betts has the potential, but I just don't see Gibbs gambling on him panning out. Mark my words: the Redskins WILL bring in a veteran RB. Could be someone high profile that they might have to shell some bucks out for, like Corey Dillon or Duce Staley. But it could be someone lower profile like Stacey Mack or Mike Anderson. But you will see a veteran in the backfield next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Yeah, Reagan, I think the plan is to follow through a bit w/ Bailey. Let him sweat a little. I think our FO knows that his expected salary is not consistent w/ his play this past season. On top of that, the free agent defensive back market is flooded w/ supply, so his contract value will inevitably decrease, and he will return to the Skins, and settle for a lesser deal. Even if he does find some delusional team that will pay him what he wants, there may be a significant trade-value for him, which may benefit the team more substantially. So it's win-win. Plus, w/ our accreditted defensive backs coach (going blank on his name!), I am confident that he will coach this secondary in their full potential, with or without Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by Reaganaut Agreed, but at what price? Would you keep Lionel Dalton to upgrade at running back this year? What running back has made a difference in the playoffs this year? Did Jamal Lewis make a difference for Baltimore? I see this differently. What running back has made a difference? I don't know....err how about Davis and Foster. You can pretend their success is based on O-line alone but that's nonsense. A great back like Davis (and Foster it seems) can get first downs on first down. They can ice a game. They can give you short 3rd downs. They stop the other team from blitzing. They make a safety hesitate. Betts and canidate can be stopped by the d-line and a linebacker. No real threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 I understand the sentiment, but I think you are mistaken if you actually believe that Joe Gibbs will go with the same group of RBs next season. If he adds a veteran, fine, but not at the expense of a premium defensive lineman. Getting a Dillon or high first round pick running back will be a big letdown for me. I'd be happier with an unheralded veteran or cheap bruiser with potential back there. I'm not married to Betts or Canidate, but these guys were high draft picks. They've been misused so far in their careers. I think it'd be worth it to wait another year to see them under a Gibbs system rather than go grab another RB for high dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 you can't coach someone to fall backwards all the time, they will either be backups or gone next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHarasek Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by Reaganaut I strongly believe that the Redskins are "good enough" at many positions such as running back and need to focus on getting smart tight ends and defensive lineman plain and simple....... I'd cut Bailey loose to pick up a great young lineman plus an up and comer like a Kalu. The Skins always had a Mayhew to a Green. Smoot will be the shut down corner and we have bigger problems on the line than cornerback. Great point about the RB and Defensive Lineman. But I can't agree about letting Champ go. Do you honestly believe that Smoot is a Shut Down Corner. While he has impressed me alot, especially with the way he played through injuries and took more of a leadership role this season. I still can't put my faith in him to be a #1 corner. Letting Bailey go would hurt the secondary greatly. Especially if we keep the safeties that we have now. But that is just IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Everone....please understand this, before any more assumptions... Coaching is 2/3rds of the game. These players that have been in Spurrier's defunked system inevitably have un-tapped potential, particularly the younger players. So, while a big name RB may look sexy, and keeping Champ seems like a necessity, these are big-time coaches that know the game. They also know how to evaluate players. But as far as making decisions now on our current roster, it is nearly impossible to predict what the outcome will be. There will be some surprises, and there will be some changes. But, the line-up that we end up w/ will be the most effective, regardless of our seemingly pointless speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by freakofthenorth Coaching is 2/3rds of the game. I agree then what is health concerns?? Betts has been injured as soon as he walked on the practice field this year, and candidate is not a 20 to 25 carry back, he is a third down type back and that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Keep Champ. If they have to franchise him, then it's win-win if he departs. Also, let Gibbs evaluate his rb situation. Betts and Canidate were both injured for much of the year. I definitly think Betts can step up with better coaching and a line that isn't using the most moronic blocking schemes possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman56 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 On a scale of 1 to 100 (100 being best), I would rate Candidate's ability to break tackles at a negative 37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma this year, and candidate is not a 20 to 25 carry back, he is a third down type back and that is all. Joe Gibbs rarely uses a back that will get over 20 carries/game. His greatest success with the running game came when he used a running back by committe approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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