CBS: U.S. attorney reviewing documents marked classified from Joe Biden's vice presidency found at Biden think tank

[tomwvr]

11 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Prong chicken or not, As long as he can still lay eggs he gets my vote!

 

Speaking of laying eggs…

 

Does this really matter? Did the trump documents really matter? How many “top secret” documents do we think a president sees every day? They found tens of the thousands that came across his desk? Consider me shocked.

 

Plus, I imagine that not every top secret document contains super juicey content. Probably most of it is rather mundane…. 
 

 

My guess is the government over uses the secret, top secret classification. Way too many documents that prob dont really require it. All to make it difficult for the citizens to see what is going on 

[China]

19 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

I will never understand why trump didnt turn in all the documents requested. If he had legal authority to have them the courts would have gotten them back for him and if he didnt have authority working with the archives would have kept him out of legal trouble. But my question is how do lawyers without security clearance get to recover documents

 

The same way Trump's lawyers did.  Clearly there needs to be a better system when people leave office, some kind of filter team that goes through documents before they are allowed to be taken.

[tshile]

10 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

My guess is the government over uses the secret, top secret classification. Way too many documents that prob dont really require it. All to make it difficult for the citizens to see what is going on 

 

 

you feel confident saying that, having never had a clearance or seen classified documents yourself?

[Spaceman Spiff]

25 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

I will never understand why trump didnt turn in all the documents requested. 

 

Because he's a ****ing asshole, that's why.  He doesn't think the rules apply to him.  

 

Look, there's only one person who's Above the Law and that's Steven Seagal.  Everyone else needs to fall in line.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

 

you feel confident saying that, having never had a clearance or seen classified documents yourself?

It’s a guess. And personally I agree. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/17/1149426416/the-u-s-has-an-overclassification-problem-says-one-former-special-counsel

 

The U.S. has an overclassification problem, says one former special counsel

 

There's somewhere in the order of over 50 million documents classified every year. We don't know the exact number because even the government can't keep track of it all," Oona Hathaway, a law professor at Yale University and former special counsel at the Pentagon, told NPR. 

Hathaway said the rate at which the government classifies documents has created a problem that ultimately makes it harder for the public to hold the government accountable. She spoke with NPR about some of the reasons behind the issue and one of her suggestions to help.

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

51 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

I will never understand why trump didnt turn in all the documents requested. If he had legal authority to have them the courts would have gotten them back for him and if he didnt have authority working with the archives would have kept him out of legal trouble. But my question is how do lawyers without security clearance get to recover documents

 

How do ex-presidents who no longer have security clearance have possession of classified documents?

[tomwvr]

45 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

How do ex-presidents who no longer have security clearance have possession of classified documents?

If they are no longer classified they can have them. Most are for their libraries .

1 hour ago, tshile said:

 

 

you feel confident saying that, having never had a clearance or seen classified documents yourself?

Absolutely, ive seen too many times where groups have to file foi request to see documents the government has over classified. Sorry but our government does not want the public to know what is going on about way too many things.

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Because he's a ****ing asshole, that's why.  He doesn't think the rules apply to him.  

 

Look, there's only one person who's Above the Law and that's Steven Seagal.  Everyone else needs to fall in line.

I understand that he is a dumb ass but he didnt realize he would not win this fight. Its just another reason why he is not fit to run again

[PokerPacker]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

you feel confident saying that, having never had a clearance or seen classified documents yourself?

If it makes you feel better, I have had a clearance and I will confirm that stuff gets classified because people are too lazy to figure out what doesn't need classification.  My job would have been a lot easier if things were properly partitioned out and classified, and I'd have been able to actually work from home but instead everything I worked on was classified when maybe only about 5% of it actually needed classification.

[The Evil Genius]

I tend to think the discovery of these documents is not surprising as outgoing Pres/VP get packed in a hurry and I suspect neither pack any of it.

 

That said, if documents are discovered and/or requested and you fail to return them...that's where I think there is an issue. 

 

Of course, I defer to the experts here. 

[tomwvr]

15 hours ago, tshile said:

I like your post.  
 

but on this specific point 

 

Is there evidence of that?

 

or is that just something people are saying?

It the impression i get. All politicians are sleazy. From all I have read is the documents at pen were discovered less than a week before the election, then from the reports it was reported to the Whitehouse  who then reported it to the archives. It was not reported to the public until the week the gop took the house and announced they were going to investigate the archives to see about trumps “declassification” . So it really looks like the whitehouse  tried to hide this from the public as long as they could.  That is if all the reports are true. 
 

and with our government i dont really trust anyone to tell us the truth

14 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

I tend to think the discovery of these documents is not surprising as outgoing Pres/VP get packed in a hurry and I suspect neither pack any of it.

 

That said, if documents are discovered and/or requested and you fail to return them...that's where I think there is an issue. 

 

Of course, I defer to the experts here. 

I wont disagree what trump did was levels worse. But this just shows the public that we are to lazy within our government to track these properly and to classify them properly. But if we were to follow the law intent does not matter. Intent could be used in figuring out a punishment . I believe it is 10k and up to 15 years for each document found. If we go after everyone the same who does this trumps punishment would be far more sever but they would all be guilty of improper handling of documents  

Edited January 17 by tomwvr

[Jumbo]

Tomwvr makes a number of valid statements on this imo.

 

Don't have a heart attack, Tom 😛

[tomwvr]

5 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Tomwvr makes a number of valid statements on this imo.

 

Don't have a heart attack, Tom 😛

Im not going to . Im a political junkie this type of stuff is really interesting to me now what the skins/wft/commanders do may 😂😂

Edited January 17 by tomwvr

[Larry]

2 hours ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

How do ex-presidents who no longer have security clearance have possession of classified documents?

 

Just pointing out - I believe former Presidents retain their security clearances.  I know that other former government employees do.  

 

I remember reading that Trump was the first ex-Pres to not continue receiving national security briefings.  Although I certainly assume that their "need to know" is considerably reduced.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

 

2 hours ago, PokerPacker said:

If it makes you feel better, I have had a clearance and I will confirm that stuff gets classified because people are too lazy to figure out what doesn't need classification.  My job would have been a lot easier if things were properly partitioned out and classified, and I'd have been able to actually work from home but instead everything I worked on was classified when maybe only about 5% of it actually needed classification.

 

I imagine it depends on your field.  Id say 90% of what i saw seemed appropriate.  Now some things will get broad classification when not each part needs it at that level but that actually cuts down on the work overall.  

 

Example:  The user list of ES is determined to be Secret EXCEPT any lefthanded posters over the age of 65.  That is determined Confidential.  TK or whoever could just classify the while list Secret so they don't have to segment it (this can have its own negative effects but not the point here.)

 

2 hours ago, tomwvr said:

But if we were to follow the law intent does not matter. 

 

I agree with what Jumbo said but you are 100% wrong here.

[Jabbyrwock]

2 hours ago, tomwvr said:

But if we were to follow the law intent does not matter.

 

Intent matters.  Why? Because humans are fallible and mistakes happen.

 

How many intelligent human beings do you think would voluntarily work on classified material if the result of accidental mishandling of said material would subject them to possible prison time?  Let me give you the answer: very very few.  Congratulations, you've just completely decimated the entire civilian scientific support staff for such things as the U.S. nuclear complex.  Lets see them compete with hiring for the intelligent people coming out of college when part of the job description is "possible prison time if you don't drink enough coffee in the morning or are maybe handling classified material when you find out one of your parents died"

[tomwvr]

58 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said:

 

Intent matters.  Why? Because humans are fallible and mistakes happen.

 

How many intelligent human beings do you think would voluntarily work on classified material if the result of accidental mishandling of said material would subject them to possible prison time?  Let me give you the answer: very very few.  Congratulations, you've just completely decimated the entire civilian scientific support staff for such things as the U.S. nuclear complex.  Lets see them compete with hiring for the intelligent people coming out of college when part of the job description is "possible prison time if you don't drink enough coffee in the morning or are maybe handling classified material when you find out one of your parents died"

I understand that but mishandling one document is different than refusing to return them or holding them in multiple locations for over 5 years.

and how well cooperation with the government on this should be taken into account. I really think unless the whitehouse was hiding stuff this is not close to trumps issue, but again penalties imposed should meet the level of wrong.    

[Jabbyrwock]

2 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

I understand that but mishandling one document is different than refusing to return them or holding them in multiple locations for over 5 years. 

 

Refusing to return shows intent.

 

Having them in multiple locations for 5 years, you would have to show someone had knowledge they were there and was actively attempting to hide them.  Then you have intent.  I haven't seen anything to indicate that at the moment.  Right now, from what I've read, it sounds more like a **** ton of docs were thrown haphazardly into boxes and stored with Biden being more or less oblivious to what's in them.  That's an accident.  And I don't think some poor staffer who threw them into a box should go to jail for making such a mistake in the rush.

 

I'm happy to reconsider my position if there is any sourced evidence to show otherwise.

[tomwvr]

I agree we have to get more information. But again it does seem they withheld this from the public until after the election and again i do think due to political

games both parties make if the dems has held the house this would have never come out

[dfitzo53]

1 hour ago, tomwvr said:

I agree we have to get more information. But again it does seem they withheld this from the public until after the election and again i do think due to political

games both parties make if the dems has held the house this would have never come out

OK, I'll bite, what part of this coming to light has anything to do with Republicans taking the house?

[China]

On classified docs, GOP’s Comer can’t explain his double standard

 

When it comes to members chairing the House Oversight Committee, the Republican Party hasn’t always sent its best. Before this year, the most recent GOP chairman was South Carolina’s Trey Gowdy, who’s best known for leading a ridiculous investigation into Benghazi conspiracy theories. He was proceeded by Utah’s Jason Chaffetz, who didn’t realize that charts have y axes.

 

Also in recent memory, California’s Darrell Issa was a relentlessly partisan GOP chairman of the Oversight Committee, following an even more ridiculous tenure from Indiana’s Dan Burton, best known for shooting melons in his backyard in pursuit of anti-Clinton conspiracy theories.

 

Now, it’s Rep. James Comer’s turn — and it looks like the Kentucky Republican is joining an unfortunate GOP club.

 

If Comer’s name sounds at all familiar, he’s just now starting to generate a national reputation. In the wake of Election Day 2022, for example, the GOP congressman was so fixated on Hunter Biden that he tried to connect the presidential son to Brittney Griner’s release from a Russian prison.

 

In the months leading up to the midterm elections, Comer also helped take the lead trying to defend Donald Trump from questions surrounding the former president’s classified documents scandal. The materials Trump took, Comer said, “didn’t amount to a hill of beans.” The Kentuckian added soon after that, as far as he was concerned, the former president didn’t “intend to take anything that he wasn’t supposed to take.”

 

Asked after the election if his oversight panel might examine the controversy at all, Comer replied that the matter “will not be a priority.”

 

Wouldn’t you know it, after President Biden and his team disclosed the fact that he inadvertently had some Obama-era classified materials, Comer’s entire perspective changed quickly and dramatically.

 

Yesterday, for example, Trump boasted that he has “INFO on everyone” who visits Mar-a-Lago. With this in mind, The New York Times reported on Comer’s disinterest in the former president’s visitor logs, despite demanding nonexistent logs from Biden’s personal home.

 

Quote

Mr. Biden’s Republican critics, like Mr. Comer, are seeking transparency in ways they have not for Mr. Trump. Asked on Monday whether the Oversight Committee would be requesting from Mr. Trump the “INFO on everyone” from Mar-a-Lago, a spokesman for Mr. Comer declined to answer. Instead, he offered a statement that did not address why the committee had sought visitor logs from Mr. Biden’s home, but not Mr. Trump’s.

 

Click on the link for more

[Tundra scout]

I’ll just put this here. CNN is on board now. The walls are closing in on the Biden crime family 

 

 

[Tundra scout]

 

[tshile]

My understanding is the discovery was made over 2 months ago. Ie: before the election. 
 

that’s a bad look. 
 

I think what trump did was worse. 
 

but the optics here are bad. And if the reporting (I got it from Chris czalliza ) is accurate then that’s really bad. I don’t know if the coverup is worse than the crime with Trump but it certain seems it is with Biden. 
 

 

Also - I respect that multiple people have told me they have experience in over classification of stuff. 
 

but to me that’s a totally different issue. Whether they should be classified is different than where they are classified at the time <whatever> happened. 

Edited January 19 by tshile

[The Evil Genius]

Biden crime family? Right.

 

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

39 minutes ago, tshile said:

My understanding is the discovery was made over 2 months ago. Ie: before the election. 
 

that’s a bad look. 
 

I think what trump did was worse. 
 

but the optics here are bad. And if the reporting (I got it from Chris czalliza ) is accurate then that’s really bad. I don’t know if the coverup is worse than the crime with Trump but it certain seems it is with Biden. 
 

 

Also - I respect that multiple people have told me they have experience in over classification of stuff. 
 

but to me that’s a totally different issue. Whether they should be classified is different than where they are classified at the time <whatever> happened. 

 

This is why Biden shouldn't run in 2024. Too much distraction.