Next Day Thread: Decimating Dallas and Final Studs/Dud Awards!

[FrFan]

 

[KDawg]

Just now, zCommander said:

Can I give dud to Terry for throwing the football in the stands as it was Howell's 1st TD pass in the NFL? Hopefully they are able to get that back for him. 

 

I see some are saying the stats were Taylor like but the reality was Turner kept on calling run, run, pass plays more than needed to be. If you are trying to see how a QB in the passing game you do more passes in a game that doesn't even matter except to see what the future can be. Turner most of the times can't get out of his own way. 

 

They got it from what I read. I don't have the link but I read a story yesterday that Howell had to autograph a ball mid game to give to the people with the TD ball. But he got it. 

[HigSkin]

Not sure which is more satisfying, a beat down of the Cowboys or the scrambling that's going on with all the "Dallas Cowboys Sports" national media networks like Get Up, Undisputed and First Take. 

 

It's hilarious.

[justice98]

53 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Disappointed overall with the Tight Ends. Was thinking they would have a big year especially with Wentz's supposed penchant for utilizing TE's, sadly we know how that ended up. Maybe a combination of having to use them more to supplement the OL, maybe because we never really seemed to get into a rhythm with play calling and they became an after thought. Hoped for more from Bates, build on last year. Was very excited to see Cole Turner but he never materialized, Rodgers had flashes, unfortunately Logan is no longer as dependable as a couple of years ago. I could see picking up a TE early in the draft but Im sceptable under current staff if we would use him to his potential.

 

I thought at least one of these guys was gonna emerge and nothing ever happened.  And I'm counting Turner, Rogers, and Hodges in that.  Bates has a role and he serves his role, anything he gives as a receiver is a bonus to me.  I think Logan Thomas could use another year removed from the injury, or he very well might be done as a useful player.  He was good for one year in his whole career, that might've been the best he's gonna ever be.  

 

But Turner, Rogers, and Hodges spent as much time on IR as they did in the games. I wasn't expecting them all to be studs necessarily, we didn't invest a lot in them, to be fair.  But at least one of 'em being a contributor woulda been nice.

 

11 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I thought Ridgeway stood out until he got hurt.

 

The Hudson thing puzzles me.  Did he play the Bostic/Mayo spot while Mayo filled in for Davis?  If so, why not give him more action there before today?
 

Howell was absolutely terrific.  I’m glad he threw that INT.  It’s a good rep to learn from.  Shame they didn’t give him more opportunities.  Two big drops from Terry and Dotson.  His line could have been better.

 

If they can keep Payne, Payne, Allen, Ridgeway, and Mathis is a pretty DT formidable rotation.

Edited January 9, 2023 by justice98

[skinsfan66]

Fans were signing that Hay Hay Goodbye song late in the game and I am thinking it was directed towards Dan. If true the fans deserve a stud performance award.

[GoDeep81]

"How bout them Cowboys" LOL!! Pretty sure Turners game plan was to not score many points? They opened it up a little in the 3rd and looked pretty good from my untrained eyes! 1st half looked like the rest of the "they don't trust the QB" season. D balled all game!! Really hope to see a new OC and strategy next year. Small sample obviously, but Howell looked like the best QB on the roster. SOP, we'll get em' next year!! 

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

10 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Fans were signing that Hay Hay Goodbye song late in the game and I am thinking it was directed towards Dan. If true the fans deserve a stud performance award.

 

I was there, and singing my ass off too!   It was directed mostly at Cowboy fans who were leaving with still 8 minutes left in the fourth quarter, but definitely applied to Snyder as well.  I talked to at least 15 people yesterday at the game (and the tailgate) who all agreed that at the beginning of the season, if you knew that Snyder would be selling the team, would you be happy going 0-17.  And EVERY single person I asked this said "yes".  Most said something to the effect of "**** yes!"

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Can I give dud to Terry for throwing the football in the stands as it was Howell's 1st TD pass in the NFL? Hopefully they are able to get that back for him. 

 

I see some are saying the stats were Taylor like but the reality was Turner kept on calling run, run, pass plays more than needed to be. If you are trying to see how is the new QB in the passing game you do more passes in a game that doesn't even matter except to see what the future can be. Turner most of the times can't get out of his own way. 

 

 

[KDawg]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

 

My guess is Terry was so excited from the ball that allowed him to catch and run that he didn't even think about it

[Chris 44]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

They got it from what I read. I don't have the link but I read a story yesterday that Howell had to autograph a ball mid game to give to the people with the TD ball. But he got it. 

Lol. Yeah Howell said about 2 mins after the TD they came up to him on the sideline and had him autograph a ball for the fan. Howell seemed pretty chuffed with himself. lol

Edited January 9, 2023 by Chris 44

[justice98]

40 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Lol. Yeah Howell said about 2 mins after the TD they came up to him on the sideline and had him autograph a ball for the fan. Howell seemed pretty chuffed with himself. lol

 

I mean, they coulda handed Howell any ball really.  He wouldn't know the difference.  lol 

[skinny21]

Really seemed like Fuller and Johnson were locked in.  I thought Johnson played well last week too.  I think we look to return him and let him compete with Holmes to be the next man up.

 

I’m not big on McCain, but I’m not sure I’ve seen him really get picked on when he’s moved to the slot.  Of course, I don’t know how much we’ve moved away from man coverage recently.  I have no problem going after a safety in the draft, though I’m hoping Butler can make a similar leap that we saw in Forrest.  Wonder too if Reaves returns…

 

DL didn’t get as much pressure as I’d have liked, but they were clearly tasked with 1) stopping the ground game and 2) keeping Prescott in the pocket and not letting him extend plays - and they did a great job of both.

 

Turner drives me nuts at times, but he’s also had a fair bit of success with limited qbs (Howell’s limitation being experience).  I also get that he’s in a bit of a bind, trying to balance run opportunities (in order to protect the qb, wear down defenses, and keep the opposing offense on the bench), but also putting the qbs in a tough spot to have to convert 3rd downs (and too often 3rd and long when the run game is struggling).  I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Patterson started finding more room to run as the game wore on and the D tired (getting lost in the crowd and his shiftiness/vision helps).  Don’t get me wrong, I’d be more than happy to move on from Turner, but as has been mentioned - 1) who’s going to jump on board with the coaching/FO future in the air, and 2) is changing systems the right move for Howell (not to mention the offensive/defensive synergy we’ve seen quite often this year).

 

Hats off the the defensive coaches - with no Curl, Allen, St Juste or Davis, while giving significant time to guys with virtually no game experience (Hudson, Holmes, Butler, Potoa’e (sp?)) - that was a damn impressive game plan against a talented offense.

 

Back to Patterson for a sec, I don’t think I’d have thought of this prior to yesterday’s game, but I wonder if he could actually be a good “finisher” type of back for us.  His biggest weakness - size/ability to fight through tackles - is mitigated by D’s getting worn down, which allows his strengths to come through.  Hammer teams with Robinson, make them run/gas them with Gibson/McKissick (not to mention Howell running), then give Patterson some work.  Maybe I’m being naive here though.  

 

I’m intrigued by the young guys that received praise in the offseason, even though they didn’t show much on the field (or get a chance to) - Eifler, the rookie TEs, Holmes, Paul.  Will be interesting to see how their development goes.

 

I’m not going to really talk about Howell - it’s all been said - but really liked what he showed.  I’m not even sure I spend 10+ mil on a competition guy like Brisset rather than grabbing a developmental guy (like a Haener type) and a clear backup (a Chase Daniels type of guy).  Spend the money on Payne, extending Curl, bringing back some guys (DJ, Reaves, maybe Holcomb, etc), OL, or whatever.  No guarantees Howell works out, but it’s a risk I happily take.

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by skinny21

[method man]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

 

I thought at least one of these guys was gonna emerge and nothing ever happened.  And I'm counting Turner, Rogers, and Hodges in that.  Bates has a role and he serves his role, anything he gives as a receiver is a bonus to me.  I think Logan Thomas could use another year removed from the injury, or he very well might be done as a useful player.  He was good for one year in his whole career, that might've been the best he's gonna ever be.  

 

But Turner, Rogers, and Hodges spent as much time on IR as they did in the games. I wasn't expecting them all to be studs necessarily, we didn't invest a lot in them, to be fair.  But at least one of 'em being a contributor woulda been nice.

 

 

If they can keep Payne, Payne, Allen, Ridgeway, and Mathis is a pretty DT formidable rotation.

A couple things:

 

You have to keep in mind that 3 of the 5 guys were rookies. The TE role takes some time to get used to and I expect at least 1 of the 3 to emerge in year 2. My money is on Rogers. It says something about his athleticism when he is running jet sweeps. Dude also showed he is a decent blocker this year, all without much experience at the position.

 

On DT, I hope Ridgeway and Mathis can get PT next year and allow Allen and Payne to play 60%-70% of snaps vs the 90%ish they have played this year. Need to keep both those guys fresh. Both backups are NTs so they will allow Payne to play more 3 technique

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

Would be nice to have an upgrade at PR. Dax Milne is a nice feel good story, but he is as uninspiring as Randle El.

[Skinsinparadise]

Top 10 on offense and defense in the eyes of PFF

 

 

[CobraCommander]

Stoopid Dallas. We really

 

[Inigo Montoya]

that Patterson score seems wonky... I thought he found a ton of extra yards yesterday and to my eye I didnt see missed cuts/reads.

 

I have no idea why we would spend anything near $10mil for a backup. Cheap vet (not opposed to TH), draft a wild card, and Howell. Spend the money on LBers, O Line and get a new O Coordinator. I prefer a whole staff with new owners, but assuming that won't happen. 

[zCommander]

Howell ready to roll them boys next season!

 

 

 

 

[RVAskins]

6 hours ago, fearlessNelms said:

Unless you're an elite QB that can quickly adapt to any system, being comfortable in an offense is paramount to success-  

 That would be my only argument for bringing Turner back as OC. I'd like for Howell to be in the same system so he's comfortable at the start of the season. I do think it's way past time for Turner to take off the training wheels and open the playbook so we're not so predictable.

[zCommander]

Diggs getting a wake up call from Howell. Love it!

 

 

[MartinC]

Missed the game live - I was on a plane - but watched it on replay last night.

 

Howell did well - though that pick was awful. Certainly showed enough to at least be in the mix to compete for the starting job next season and I tend to agree with @KDawg that I would plan on him as the starter entering camp. But you need a vet backup behind him - I would not be surprised if that’s Heinicke though. He wont get starting money offers in free agency and he might well end up back here on top end backup money plus incentives. If he wants a clean start though we have to find a quality vet backup.

 

I think we can all agree we need to stay away from the starter money retread vet QB market - even if its a free agent like say Mayfield. 

 

I’m on the fence about Scott Turner. Objectively he’s not been great - or even good. But he’s also been severely limited by what he’s had at QB. Hes been designing game plans and calling plays to work around glaring issues at the QB spot (different issues depending which of the circa 10 QBs he’s called players for - but issues). Also bringing a new OC in means a new system and Howell say loses the benefit of year two in a system if he’s the starter. I’d stick with him for another year - unless there is an ownership change and a new HC in which everything is on the table. But I think any ownership change happens too late for big coaching changes for next season. That will the season after I think.

 

Overall I think we have a roster on the rise - it’s good enough to win double digits with given good QB play. O’Line needs attention and I’d like to see us draft a corner high to give more depth and as a replacement on deck for Fuller who will entering the last year of his deal. Another quality starter at backer would help - Davis played better as the season went ion and is at least a solid starter now but that’s still a unit that could be improved. 

 

I think Samuel stays for another season but we draft/add depth at that position. Brown and Simms might not be brought back or will be competing for roster spots in camp - neither have really taken the step forward this season (though both had flashes). 

 

Not sure what we do with Payne and Sweat. I’d certainly look to try to extend Payne just not sure if that’s an easy deal to get done. Sweat I’m on the fence over - he’s been much better than just scouting him by sack numbers would show, but I think he will be looking to get paid elite DE money and I’m not sure I would pay him at that level.

 

Overall I think the glass is more than half full. The needle is pointing up - and way up if Howell can become ‘The Guy’.

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Rewatched the game highlights to look more at the OL. Keep in mind these are highlights and not all-22 of every play.

 

Culprits for pressure allowed:

Trai Turner, he doesn't have his legs anymore. He can't help double someone then get back to the guy stunting to his area.

Cosmi was scared of Parson's speed, and would play that a bit too much and then Parson's lateral agility meant inside moves were easy.

Chris Paul needs a more consistent anchor. Some plays he looks immovable, others he's giving up too much ground too quickly.

 

Culprits in the run game:

Trai Turner, him not having his legs anymore is pretty clear. A lot of his issues stem from his legs just moving too slow, he's off balance a lot when moving with traffic.

Chris Paul, generally you see power and movement, but occasionally the defender would get too low for Paul to handle, and he couldn't move him.

 

Chris Paul's penalty could have been called on 3 of the 5 OL. They were all downfield for a screen to the opposite side. That play looks good for either the screen if thrown, or the TE who leaked to the opposite direction. But there's too much stuff happening beforehand. He fakes a handoff to the RB going out on the screen which kills a second and is probably why the OL was already that far downfield.

 

I don't think we chipped Parsons once. Leno seemed to more or less hold his own against him. Cosmi had more issues.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

2023 possible starting OL outlook:

LT - It's still Leno's. He's alright and most importantly never hurt.

LG - Competition, Paul should compete for the LG job, he could improve and win it with an offseason of training.

C - '?', what to do with Roullier's injury history

RG - '?', Cosmi might move here?

RT - '?', maybe Cosmi can fix his oversetting issues vs speed, otherwise this is Lucas and he's certainly upgradeable.

 

Depth

Schweitzer, injury prone, otherwise he'd be good depth

Norwell, probably cut, he doesn't move well anymore

Turner, retirement. Age has caught up to his legs.

Larsen, age and that big injury are worrisome, otherwise he'd be good depth

Charles, looked out of his element

Nick Martin, bad depth

 

OL isn't in as bad of a pickle, but depth sucks, we need to figure out Roullier and the Center spot, along with starting competition for the LG and RT spot. We need 3 guys who can be average and compete. Is that through the draft or FA? I do not think the OL is that far away from being a league average unit. It will take a bigger effort to be one of the better OL in the league. I don't think that's something we should seek, unless it just falls into our laps in FA and the Draft.

[Captain Wiggles]

56 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Would be nice to have an upgrade at PR. Dax Milne is a nice feel good story, but he is as uninspiring as Randle El.

 

A returner what could run jet sweeps as well would be ideal. Especially considering Turners obsession with running sweeps n trick bull****. 

[Idaho fan]

Dissapointed the season is over.  shocked they put a beating on the cowboys.  confused how they split games with the Eagles & Cowboys yet couldn't get a win against the Giants or the Browns when they desperately needed it.