The Evil Genius Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 9 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: This seems bad. https://www.mediaite.com/politics/we-are-looking-at-a-historic-moment-cnns-harry-enten-left-speechless-by-donald-trumps-performance-with-black-voters/ I'd say the same thing as I did about those Michigan Muslim voters a few months back, if some African Americans want to vote for someone that absolutely hates them and wishes them eradicated, go ahead and pick MAGA. Those voters are truly a lost cause if they choose MAGA right now and I truly doubt anything can be done about that. Make no mistake. MAGA is Christian white nationalism. If you fall outside of that, good luck. Edited June 18 by The Evil Genius 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, mistertim said: Any women who are still voting for Trump will vote for anyone with an R next to their name, regardless of what they've said about women (or done to them). They're lost causes at this point. 13 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: I'd say the same thing as I did about those Michigan Muslim voters a few months back, if some African Americans want to vote for someone that absolutely hates them and wishes them eradicated, go ahead and pick MAGA. Those voters are truly a lost cause if they choose MAGA right now and I truly doubt anything can be done about that. I'm not gonna go back and dig, but the same thing has basically been said about Nikki Halley Republicans and college kids pissed at Israel Palestine. Both groups should vote for Joe because "its obvious" and if they don't want to by now they are a lost cause. Not gonna win a lot of elections discarding whole groups so easily. Understanding why something so repugnant as the current Republican party is still more attractive to them than what Democrats are offering would pay off significantly more. Figure out what message it is they are locking onto, and try to counter it. You can't save them all...but that doesn't mean you just sweep them all up into the "lost cause" bin and discard the entire group. Not if you want to win. Counter messaging this evil, constantly, tirelessly and undaunted by seeming futility, is the only way its going to be beaten back. And we might as well accept its not a job that is one and done. Right now Democrats seem to want to coalesce around "Trump is a felon", "He's a racist", "He's a threat to democracy" and "He's a threat to women's rights" and hope that carries them without having to reach out, understand and message to other disenfranchised groups. If they stick with that plan, they will lose. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 26 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said: I'm not gonna go back and dig, but the same thing has basically been said about Nikki Halley Republicans and college kids pissed at Israel Palestine. Both groups should vote for Joe because "its obvious" and if they don't want to by now they are a lost cause. Not gonna win a lot of elections discarding whole groups so easily. Understanding why something so repugnant as the current Republican party is still more attractive to them than what Democrats are offering would pay off significantly more. Figure out what message it is they are locking onto, and try to counter it. You can't save them all...but that doesn't mean you just sweep them all up into the "lost cause" bin and discard the entire group. Not if you want to win. Counter messaging this evil, constantly, tirelessly and undaunted by seeming futility, is the only way its going to be beaten back. And we might as well accept its not a job that is one and done. Right now Democrats seem to want to coalesce around "Trump is a felon", "He's a racist", "He's a threat to democracy" and "He's a threat to women's rights" and hope that carries them without having to reach out, understand and message to other disenfranchised groups. If they stick with that plan, they will lose. As a general rule, I agree with you. However, in the case of hardcore MAGAs, we're talking about a cult, not a political movement. No matter how badly a cult leader treats and exploits women under his spell, the women rarely leave and remain just as devoted. I've seen countless people in countless interviews with MAGAs try to understand the women who continue to vote for Trump despite the rape, sexual assaults, misogyny, and sexism, in the hope of making some sort of dent in their way of thinking. Never happens. The women immediately dig in, refuse to listen to any points, and simply say everything is "fake". They're utterly impervious to any outside views whatsoever. You'd have better luck convincing a literal brick wall to change its mind. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 11 hours ago, Jabbyrwock said: Understanding why something so repugnant as the current Republican party is still more attractive to them than what Democrats are offering would pay off significantly more. from what I see it’s the social progressive issues. Transgender stuff probably being the easiest to point to. Given how that topic has taken over the Democrat party platform, I’m not sure what you can do about that. You and I have both watched how people are on that topic, regardless of how any person feels about what’s right or wrong morally, the dems have certainly painted themselves into a corner with no wiggle room. but to your general point - it’s a large country to govern and you have to figure out what’s more important for your platform. If there’s something that doesn’t have mass appeal then you have to weigh that against your morals and figure out what’s better - more support so you win and have control, or trying to win with less support knowing if you don’t the other party gets control (a party that is against your entire platform) much like republicans have an issue with how to deal with maga, dems have an issue with their progressive wing. How do you get the support you need to win without driving off a group you need? there’s another discussion in the cycle about support from black communities. It is my understanding (happy to be corrected) that the LGBTQ policies are not particularly well received in those communities. There’s also a general “well what have you done for me lately?” Issue with them that we saw with labor unions back in 2016. for years now dems have thumped their chest when they win, used wins against MAGA types as evidence the have some mandate every time they beat one, refusing to consider they get votes because people can’t vote for Trump not because those people agree with their platform. I don’t know how you deal with that if you’re in the DNC. If they back off those social progressive issues they’re going to lose support. And I have no idea what the numbers on either end are to even net it out. I do believe if Trump wasn’t the nominee Biden very well could have been in a lot of trouble in November. Of course that’s easy to speculate when there’s no way to know. Edited June 19 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 6 minutes ago, mistertim said: As a general rule, I agree with you. However, in the case of hardcore MAGAs, we're talking about a cult, not a political movement. No matter how badly a cult leader treats and exploits women under his spell, the women rarely leave and remain just as devoted. I've seen countless people in countless interviews with MAGAs try to understand the women who continue to vote for Trump despite the rape, sexual assaults, misogyny, and sexism, in the hope of making some sort of dent in their way of thinking. Never happens. The women immediately dig in, refuse to listen to any points, and simply say everything is "fake". They're utterly impervious to any outside views whatsoever. You'd have better luck convincing a literal brick wall to change its mind. I agree. But "Hardcore MAGA" is different than "Any woman still voting for Trump", which was your assertion. And the difference between the two is largely my point. There is a tendency to lump people currently expressing an interest in voting for Trump as necessarily MAGA...the two groups are not the same. But if Democrats insist on seeing them that way, they will lose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said: I agree. But "Hardcore MAGA" is different than "Any woman still voting for Trump", which was your assertion. And the difference between the two is largely my point. There is a tendency to lump people currently expressing an interest in voting for Trump as necessarily MAGA...the two groups are not the same. But if Democrats insist on seeing them that way, they will lose. Fair point. I probably should have been more precise in my wording. Edited June 18 by mistertim 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 15 minutes ago, tshile said: from what I see it’s the social progressive issues. Transgender stuff probably being the easiest to point to. Given how that topic has taken over the Democrat party platform, I’m not sure what you can do about that. You and I have both watched how people are on that topic, regardless of how any person feels about what’s right or wrong morally, the dems have certainly painted themselves into a corner with no wiggle room. but to your general point - it’s a large country to govern and you have to figure out what’s more important for your platform. If there’s something that doesn’t have mass appeal then you have to weigh that against your morals and figure out what’s better - more support so you win and have control, or trying to win with less support knowing if you don’t the other party gets control (a party that is against your entire platform) much like republicans have an issue with how to deal with maga, dems have an issue with their progressive wing. How do you get the support you need to win without driving off a group you need? there’s another discussion in the cycle about support from black communities. It is my understanding (happy to be corrected) that the LGBTQ policies are not particularly well received in those communities. There’s also a general “well what have you done for me lately?” Issue with them that we saw with labor unions back in 2016. for years now dems have thumped their chest when they win, used wins against MAGA types as evidence the have some mandate every time they beat one, refusing to consider they get votes because people can’t vote for Trump not because those people agree with their platform. I don’t know how you deal with that if you’re in the DNC. If they back off those social progressive issues they’re going to lose support. And I have no idea what the numbers on either end are to even net it out. I do believe if Trump wasn’t the nominee Biden very well could have been in a lot of Trump and in November. Of course that’s easy to speculate when there’s no way to know. I agree that the social progressive issues are probably costing the democrats more than they had anticipated (I would note I have a son firmly planted on the LGBTQ rainbow, so I do not like that this is the case at all). I'm not sure how these issues impact African American communities. But I can tell you they build a permission structure for Christians (not just evangelical) and Latinos (very very catholic) to vote for Trump. What I haven't figured out yet is whether its the actual democratic position on social issues or the rights portrayal of those positions that they have locked onto. If the latter, there may be a messaging battle that can be won. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Jabbyrwock said: Understanding why something so repugnant as the current Republican party is still more attractive to them than what Democrats are offering would pay off significantly more. It’s because they’re repugnant people. Also stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: It’s because they’re repugnant people. Also stupid. They're not all Cowboys fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 @Jabbyrwock I would guess it’s both. They have always had a problem with messaging. In part because they’re not great at it. But also because the republicans seem to be experts at frothing at the mouth, conspiracy laden, totally made up rhetoric. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 As for Black voters and polls: And as for MAGA being a cuit: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) Edited June 19 by Cooked Crack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Notably absent from that list is "winning an election legally by courting voters." Edited June 19 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) Edited June 19 by The Evil Genius 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Just now, The Evil Genius said: Trying to see the connection to the thread lol... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 (edited) 1 minute ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Trying to see the connection to the thread lol... Yeah I corrected that. For some reason it didn't copy the link I wanted. Edited June 19 by The Evil Genius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 11 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Who are the morons applauding that statement? lol...If you're applauding it means you know what cryptocurrency is, and if you know what cryptocurrency is you (should) know how asinine his comment truly was. And what is Biden's war in cryptocurrency? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I think I know where Trump got his knowledge of crypto from lol... A few days later: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 To the crypto bros anyone that isn’t vocally praising crypto is against it the true believers see Trump as pro crypto. They were for RFK jr (because he said he was pro crypto) until they realized he was just a side show I think blockchain is an interesting idea and crypto is fun to understand enough to treat like gambling, but those people are nuts. they actively root for a collapse of the USD so crypto can take hold not one of them has been able to explain to me how crypto works when the USD crashes and everything goes to ****. 6 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: I think I know where Trump got his knowledge of crypto from lol... He was previously against it and someone in his campaign team identified it as a group of voters with no legitimate candidate to support he was anti crypto years ago. Right now he’s desperate for new voting blocs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Security Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, Cooked Crack said: Drove through that part of the state today. Whew boy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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