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Taylor Heinicke Extension?


smithmal
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3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Like, I hear ya, but it's an assumption based on what would maybe make more sense, not what they've given any indication they willing to do, they hard headed.

 

 

My hope is we get rid if Fuller as well, trade Sweat, and use that money to pay Payne no matter what we do at QB.  

 

I can totally see them keeping Wentz to save face and try to convince us they have a better veteran option then the Trifecta you proposed.

 

I'm still waiting for something like combine to maybe change their mind, hard if we get a mind round pick.

How about trading Payne for two serviceable Olineman. How about we try to give any QB more than 2.5 seconds to throw the ball.

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2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Like, I hear ya, but it's an assumption based on what would maybe make more sense, not what they've given any indication they willing to do, they hard headed.

 

 

My hope is we get rid if Fuller as well, trade Sweat, and use that money to pay Payne no matter what we do at QB.  

 

I can totally see them keeping Wentz to save face and try to convince us they have a better veteran option then the Trifecta you proposed.

 

I'm still waiting for something like combine to maybe change their mind, hard if we get a mind round pick.

yeah, i don't think it's the likely outcome. i was just stating more of what i would want to see, if they have enough introspection to realize they are doubling down on a mistake, if they already see the writing on the wall, at the detriment to the overall roster. like you said, if i were to bet money, i'd put it on them saving face.

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5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Like, I hear ya, but it's an assumption based on what would maybe make more sense, not what they've given any indication they willing to do, they hard headed.

 

 

My hope is we get rid if Fuller as well, trade Sweat, and use that money to pay Payne no matter what we do at QB.  

 

I can totally see them keeping Wentz to save face and try to convince us they have a better veteran option then the Trifecta you proposed.

 

I'm still waiting for something like combine to maybe change their mind, hard if we get a mind round pick.

 

Edited by tmandoug1
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2 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

LOL @ the part in bold 😂...actually at the Star Wars tractor beam part, too lol...

 

I think Collins had a stronger arm than Heinicke but that's not saying much (hell, I have a stronger arm than Heinicke lol) and was a bit more accurate...probably...I'm just guessing from memory, to be honest. But there was a LOT of complaining on here about Collins' lack of arm strength at the time. Then again, there was some about Mark "noodle arm" Brunell as well, if you can believe it.

Todd Collins’ arm was good enough defenses couldn’t entirely collapse the field.  It wasn’t great, if it were he would have been a starter somewhere. But it was good enough to operate Al Saunder’s mostly verticals passing game. (As a side note, the fact these OC’s who like veritical passing games but fall in love with backups with weak arms is odd.)

 

Brunell had a really good arm early in his career. But by the time he got here it was mostly shot.  
 

That said,  not even in his wildest dreams could TH throw either of the 2 bombs to Moss on the Monday Night Miracle.  The first was released at 50 and was caught about 5 yards in the endzone.  That’s 55 yards in the air.  The second was released at about the 27 and caught at the opposite 25.  So just under 50 yards

 

Here’s my favorite Redskins video of all time.  It shows it clearly.  It has the Monday Night Miracle and also the 2006 game wheee they beat Dallas in the untimed FG at the end.  Those were 2 big time throws.  Brunel might have had a mid-tier starting QB arm at that point in his career, but it was good enough to stretch the defenses. (Caveat: he got hurt, I think a hamstring, and when that happened, his velocity decreased dramatically) Anyway, I dare anybody to watch this video without tearing up. ST21 features prominently…. The Crimson Tide music is also magnificent. 
 

 

TH under threw a ball to a wide open receiver 45 yards down field.  The ball left his hand at about the 45 and would have landed at about the goal line but McLaurin somehow caught it.  
 

he’s not capable of throwing it 10 yards farther, where it needed to be.  Every time I watch it I marvel how McLaurin caught it and it wasn’t intercepted.  Because it really should have been.  
 

If Brunnnel had an iffy arm, it’s a freaking howitzer compared to the broken squirt gun TH possesses.  

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8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If Brunnnel had an iffy arm, it’s a freaking howitzer compared to the broken squirt gun TH possesses.  

 

 

This is only one post and from 2012, but....

 

On 11/12/2012 at 9:33 PM, ceviker said:

...You mean to tell me we were in a better position with Mark noodle arm Brunell in 2005 after three devastating losses in a row?

 

So for awhile anyway, declaring our QBs to have weak "noodle" arms was a thing...now at least it's more accurate lol.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

This is only one post and from 2012, but....

 

 

So for awhile anyway, declaring our QBs to have weak "noodle" arms was a thing...now at least it's more accurate lol.

 

 

I’m not saying it didn’t happen.  
 

And I went in person to the Indy game in 2006 (I think) where Peyton lit us up like a Christmas tree.

 

I could tell the arm strength difference during the 5 minutes before the game warmup when Peyton was just throwing a few tosses to his TE something Dallas 

maybe?  Brunell was over there lofting balls, and Peyton was just casually zipping them.  Maybe 15 yards? Nothing fancy but you could tell the difference  It was evident.  Brunnell’s arm was shot.  Peyton dropped like a 60 yard dime that game.  This was peak Peyton.  Before the neck injury took his ability to throw away.  
 

But Brunnell’s shot arm was still better than TH’s not-shot arm.  And it’s not close
 

But that’s where we are.  

Edited by Voice_of_Reason
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44 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

TH under threw a ball to a wide open receiver 45 yards down field.  The ball left his hand at about the 45 and would have landed at about the goal line but McLaurin somehow caught it.  
 

he’s not capable of throwing it 10 yards farther, where it needed to be.  Every time I watch it I marvel how McLaurin caught it and it wasn’t intercepted.  Because it really should have been.  

 

 

You point it out a lot, but the lack of arm strength is not just a distance thing, but a timing thing as well.

 

Even when TH does throw the ball a set distance it takes so much longer for it to get there.

Even a tiny time difference can be what determines an open WR, a contested catch or a closed window.

 

On a lot of these routes (out routes especially) it is not the issue of TH being able to throw far enough, but rather throwing the ball fast enough.

 

 

 

I put in my time in having to watch TH most of last year. I'm sick of having to live through the exact same limitations all over again, even after the coaching staff public ally acknowledging the problem after the season.

 

TH's arm is more child friendly than a TMX Elmo.

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19 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m not saying it didn’t happen.  
 

And I went in person to the Indy game in 2006 (I think) where Peyton lit us up like a Christmas tree.

 

I could tell the arm strength difference during the 5 minutes before the game warmup when Peyton was just throwing a few tosses to his TE something Dallas 

maybe?  Brunell was over there lofting balls, and Peyton was just casually zipping them.  Maybe 15 yards? Nothing fancy but you could tell the difference  It was evident.  Brunnell’s arm was shot.  Peyton dropped like a 60 yard dime that game.  This was peak Peyton.  Before the neck injury took his ability to throw away.  
 

But Brunnell’s shot arm was still better than TH’s not-shot arm.  And it’s not close
 

But that’s where we are.  

 

I was never making a comparison between Brunell and Heinicke...or between Collins and Heinicke for that matter lol. I was talking about how fans on this site were complaining about arm strength even when the arm strength of the QB was on full display like it was numerous times with Brunell (hence the "if you can believe it" at the end of my earlier post).

 

 

6 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

You point it out a lot, but the lack of arm strength is not just a distance thing, but a timing thing as well.

 

Even when TH does throw the ball a set distance it takes so much longer for it to get there.

Even a tiny time difference can be what determines an open WR, a contested catch or a closed window.

 

On a lot of these routes (out routes especially) it is not the issue of TH being able to throw far enough, but rather throwing the ball fast enough.

 

 

 

I put in my time in having to watch TH most of last year. I'm sick of having to live through the exact same limitations all over again, even after the coaching staff public ally acknowledging the problem after the season.

 

TH has a more child friendly arm than a TMX Elmo.

 

It's also not just speed, it's the ability to make legitimate throws when the mechanics are off.

 

At any rate, we've seen Heinicke make throws with more than enough zip on them. We should stop acting like he's throwing a beach ball out there. But better arm strength would mean he makes them with consistency, week after week, which he does not do now.

Edited by Califan007 The Constipated
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13 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

I don't think anyone's gonna be going for Heinicke in the offseason even as a backup, plus he probably wants to stay here. If they want him back they can do something in the offseason and I bet it gets done. They'll probably let him test the market first, confident in that he won't get too many offers...and if he does, they won't be hard to beat.

I think there are quite a few teams that would take him as a back up. Which backup players would you rather have? 

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8 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

Yeah I get inadequate arm velocity (hence no quick outs on that last drive), but TH launches it from the 47-48 to the 1.  He standing on the midfield logo

F5323278-1B5A-4D9A-8B43-BB9CF40BF7C0.jpeg

on this play, he actually got good protection and got a chance to set his feet. plus, on these types of throws where it's a 1-on-1 ball where timing isn't as much of a concern he can make these throws. i think most qbs on an nfl roster have enough arm to throw this kind of high arching ball. his arm becomes an issue if he has to throw on the run/off platform past a certain distance or on middle to deep throws outside the hash where the balls have to get there quick before the db can break up the pass.

 

my recollection of the monday night miracle throw was that it didn't have as high of a trajectory and got there with zip with moss at full speed.

Edited by xxprodigyxx
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1 minute ago, xxprodigyxx said:

on this play, he actually got good protection and got a chance to set his feet. plus, on these types of throws where it's a 1-on-1 ball where timing isn't as much of a concern he can make these throws. i think most qbs on an nfl roster have enough arm to throw this kind of high arching ball. his arm becomes an issue if he has to throw on the run/off platform past a certain distance or on middle to deep throws outside the hash where the balls have to get there quick before the db can break up the pass.

 

Yeah, we're debating this throw on several threads. I agree with many... that he doesnt possess the arm to get that into the endzone.  Not really a secret.  Not really worth debating.

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43 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Which QB now or which QB next offseason?...Because there will probably be a number of "starters" this season who will be signed as backups next season.

Such as, and 31 one of them? And that you’d prefer over Th?

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84
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35 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I think you give him a 2 year contract.  somewhere between 10-15 mil; plus incentives for every start he makes.   Max value around 20 mil. 

I certainly consider giving him a couple of years on an extension. I’d probably half those numbers on my offer though.

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I’m not sure why we are even talking about extending Heinicke halfway through the season?  Can we wait till we see how the season pans out first? So those who want to extend Taylor, I assume you want him as your starter for the the next couple years.
 

I like Heinicke but believe we still need to continue to look for a true franchise qb whether through the draft, trade or free agency. Plus I’m not convinced that Taylor will have a boat load of teams ready to hand out a contract.  I get you want to get a jump start to keeping him under contract but we can’t and should not pay more than 5-8 million per year for a backup. 

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7 hours ago, xxprodigyxx said:

on this play, he actually got good protection and got a chance to set his feet. plus, on these types of throws where it's a 1-on-1 ball where timing isn't as much of a concern he can make these throws. i think most qbs on an nfl roster have enough arm to throw this kind of high arching ball. his arm becomes an issue if he has to throw on the run/off platform past a certain distance or on middle to deep throws outside the hash where the balls have to get there quick before the db can break up the pass.

 

my recollection of the monday night miracle throw was that it didn't have as high of a trajectory and got there with zip with moss at full speed.

You're right.  Moss didn't have to throttle down for either catch.  There wasn't a lot of "top" on either throw.  On the second one specifically, a QB with a stronger arm could have gotten the ball maybe 5-10 yards farther out with more top, and Moss could have had even an easier catch, just drop it into the bread basket.  

 

But Brunell had enough arm to get it there, get it there on time, not force his receiver to come back to the ball.  At least in 2004 and 2005, he had an NFL arm, even if it wasn't an elite arm.  In 2006, the injuries really caught up to him and he lost the last little umph he had on the ball, which took him out of the starter category.  

 

The other thing that is maddening about this play, as you pointed out, the protection was actually good.  And his mechanics were still a mess.  I wonder if he had actually stepped into the throw if he could have gotten it the extra 5-8 yards to make it a non-contested catch.  He sortof flicked it, rather than driving it.  Aaron Rodgers can flick that ball 50 yards down field with his wrist.  At least peak Rodgers could.  I'm not sure who else can. None of Brady, Manning or Brees could. Back in the day, Favre could, as could Marino and Elway.    I'm not even sure Wentz could do that, and he's got a great arm. So the fact TH didn't get his mechanics sorted out and really put his full weight behind the throw is wild.  What you should have seen is the back foot actually come off the ground after the ball is released.  If you watch any of the great QBs throw deep balls, when they have time, you see them step into it, drive it, and that back leg always comes off the ground as they push through.  

59 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I think you give him a 2 year contract.  somewhere between 10-15 mil; plus incentives for every start he makes.   Max value around 20 mil. 

If Ron/Scott are fired (or Ron resigns) for whatever reason, there are really good odds TH doesn't get another job in the NFL.  He is most valuable knowing a system nobody else runs.

 

He's worth maybe yesterday's leftover ham sandwich to any team other than us.  

 

Galdi is saying they should be talking contract extension with TH.  That's madness.  If they want him, they can get him.

 

They should not want him.  If they want him, it means Howell stinks.

 

He was PUTRID for 55 minutes on Sunday.  He pulled a rabbit out of the hat and made 2 good throws and then got massively lucky on an underthrown deep ball.  Sam Elhinger looked better than TH through 55 minutes of the game.  The first half last week and 55 minutes this week was some of the absolute worst QB play you will see in the NFL the entire year.  It was HORRID.  

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