Taylor Heinicke Extension?

[Redwards]

Bottom line for me:

 

I really don't care what they do at QB. so long as they realize what's painfully obvious: there is no long-term solution on the roster.  You ain't winning a SB with Wentz or TH (or even getting within sight of one) and as much as I like Howell, the odds of a 5th rounder being the long-term, SB solution is very, very rare.  So you can't bank on him being that.

 

This team needs to do whatever it takes to nab one of those blue chip QB prospects in this draft if wants to entertain any notion of not falling perilously behind the rest of the teams in the division.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

Yes, he's decent as a backup and they are a handful of QB situations that are ugly enough that he can at least serve as a stop gap.  Carolina is a mess, Colts are a mess, we bout to find out jus how bad Houston is ourselves. 

 

 Dude was damn near throwing up on himself last year because of how badly he didn't want to lose the chance to start, don't think he won't try elsewhere if he knows he can't start here.

 

We've gone out of our way to keep him from being the starter two seasons in a row, it's not about him being handed anything, it's about him getting the chance to play. And us being cap strapped, I'd rather that money go to oline then backup QB since Howell is here.

 

He's starting to remind me of Colt McCoy, yea he was Jay's dude, but he was right on that line of QBs you could consider as not jus a solid backup but someone to start the season until a rookie is able to take over if it came to that.  That's how he ended up with the Giants, Jones beat him out but when he got hurt Colt went in there and went 1-1.

 

There's nothing that at this point has convinced me Wentz won't be the starter in 2023.  God help us if Taylor is.

I dunno man, it would seem to me that Taylor’s value is wherever Scott Turner is.  
 

I only have to look back to last season to see there was a period where it was absolute Heinicke mania, not just here - but nationally, after the Falcons game.  Once the season ended, it was *crickets* for Heinicke.  No interest from anyone else nor any discussion that he could be the guy, in fact - the only discussion was about who was going to be the guy, as if he didn’t even exist.

 

While his biggest fans here tout the injuries, Covid, etc, as the reasons for his lack of late season success, it seems no other coaches or execs including our own were willing to give that same benefit of doubt.  That’s very telling. 
 

I’m not saying that he won’t find a job in the league should we part ways, but I have a very hard time believing that he will get any serious consideration to be a starter anywhere else.

Edited November 1, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[NoCalMike]

For me a Heinicke extension really hinges on what the coaching staff thinks of Howell. (Assuming the current coaching staff is returning next season).  Heinicke is a good back up, I don't think most people are arguing that.   The two factors to consider are how much he would be asking to be paid to be a back up and if the coaches think Howell would eventually be a better back up (or even a starter eventually?)

[vegeta613]

19 minutes ago, Redwards said:

Bottom line for me:

 

I really don't care what they do at QB. so long as they realize what's painfully obvious: there is no long-term solution on the roster.  You ain't winning a SB with Wentz or TH (or even getting within sight of one) and as much as I like Howell, the odds of a 5th rounder being the long-term, SB solution is very, very rare.  So you can't bank on him being that.

 

This team needs to do whatever it takes to nab one of those blue chip QB prospects in this draft if wants to entertain any notion of not falling perilously behind the rest of the teams in the division.

 

 

In this draft the best 2 CJ and bryce are about the same size as howell or smaller. The guy from Kentucky sucks, and hooker will be like 25 in 2023. We are screwed

[Renegade7]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I’m not saying that he won’t find a job in the league should we part ways, but I have a very hard time believing that he will get any serious consideration to be a starter anywhere else.

 

Here's the thing, I agree with everything you saying.  

 

Won't get any serious consideration is better then zero consideration here, our last two offseasons scream that, and he knows that, too.

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, vegeta613 said:

 

 

In this draft the best 2 CJ and bryce are about the same size as howell or smaller. The guy from Kentucky sucks, and hooker will be like 25 in 2023. We are screwed

QB age doesn’t concern me. Young’s height and weight doesn’t, either. It’s his durability. If he can stay healthy he is going to be absolutely special. He makes off script passes like Mahomes but he’s much more mobile, and Mahomes isn’t a slouch. It remains to be seen if he handles pressure like Mahomes, or shines in big moments. But stylistically he’s an absolute gem.

 

Hooker is smart, has a charisma about him and despite his age things have really seemed to click for him. 
 

Having said all that, too many dismiss Howell because he was a fifth rounder. Many of those people love Heinicke, who wasn’t drafted. It would also be wise to keep in mind that if Howell came out a year prior he’s probably going top 10.

 

His senior tape wasn’t bad, in fact I think it was his best year when you consider he lost all of his weapons and his OL was so bad saying it was abysmal is a compliment.

 

He needed work on footwork and reading both halves of the field but had the rest of the tools, including the ability to move. 
 

People are way too quick to discount him.

[skins island connection]

5 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

I don't think anyone's gonna be going for Heinicke in the offseason even as a backup, plus he probably wants to stay here. If they want him back they can do something in the offseason and I bet it gets done. They'll probably let him test the market first, confident in that he won't get too many offers...and if he does, they won't be hard to beat.

 

 Yea, this is exactly how they let Cousins go.

Fans cried " oh he can't throw a fade pass " " he's garbage " " He'll wash out like everyone else "..etc etc .

 

This is part of the bigger problem with QBs here; no one wants to give ANY QB a chance to grow, learn from mistakes and develop into a QB capable of winning.  One year one & done, thats the motto here, everyone wants THE top QB to ever play the game and when a QB makes the first mistake they're ready to cast them to the wolves. 

 

The Eagles didn't give up on Hurts, even though he played poorly his first year; by all accounts here fans would have demanded they get rid of him { and don't lie you know who you all are } because thats what these fans do. 

TH has more than deserved a chance to stay here; its not like the guy doesn't give a crap, he plays his best; if the game plan doesn't favor what he can do he will struggle at times, if the o-line doesn't constantly break down in .5 seconds on nearly every play, if the route running isn't sold by the WRs, then ANY QB will struggle.

So, absolutely YES, if they do to TH as they've done to other QBS here then i'd hope he goes somewhere and succeeds, because its not the WQB, its the FO and owner who are ignorant at doing things the right way.

[Voice_of_Reason]

53 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m not saying that he won’t find a job in the league should we part ways, but I have a very hard time believing that he will get any serious consideration to be a starter anywhere else.

If Chase Daniel can be a backup for 14 years, TH can be a backup for .. less than that because he's already 29.  But I'm sure somebody will give him a job. The only thing really working against TH is he is proficient in the Turner offense, which only the Turner's run now.  I can't think of another Air Coryell based system in the NFL.  Maybe there is one somewhere, but I can't think of it.  It's almost all WCO.  A ton of it traces back to the Andy Reid and Mike Shanahan branches at this point.  (All the former Redskins assistants who are HC's are off this line, even if you consider (as he has said) Boy Wonder McVay to be off the Jay Gruden branch, Jay is off the Jon branch, which is off the Reid branch, so it goes back to Reid.  

 

If Wentz is gone, however, the idiots who run this organization will bring him back for the exact reason you indicated: he is most valuable to Scott Turner.  

 

The best comp for Taylor Hienicke I can come up with is Danny Wuerfell/Steve Spurrier.  Wuerfell had no busienss ever playing in the NFL, but there was one coach who thought he knew his system well enough to make it work, and so the 'ol ball coach brought him here and he failed as everybody knew he would.

 

The difference is Scott Turner knows TH's limitations, so doesn't want him as a starter, but absolutely wants him around because he's become a binky.  

 

They need to cut ties with him to free Scott Turner.  

25 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

This is part of the bigger problem with QBs here; no one wants to give ANY QB a chance to grow, learn from mistakes and develop into a QB capable of winning. 

If a QB can't throw a 20 yard out, in the NFL, they can't develop to anything more than a low-level backup.

 

It has nothing to do with patience.  It has to do with talent. 

 

And on Cousins, I think there were a lot of us who really wanted Cousins to stick around, but in the end, some combination of Bruce, Dan and McLoughan blew it from a contract perspective and away he went.  I wanted him to stay, just not for the contract the Vikings paid him. The whole thing was imminently avoidable, except, we had Dan and Bruce.  But don't forget, McLoughan was the first who didn't want to pay him $20m/year after the 2015 season.  That was where it all started.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

32 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 Yea, this is exactly how they let Cousins go.

 

 

No it's not lol...

 

If they give Heinicke the franchise tag two years in a row while offering him a lower tier starting QB contract, and then refused to trade Heinicke even though teams were inquiring about him, THEN it will be exactly how they let Cousins go.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated

[sebestian]

5 hours ago, Dan T. said:

Extend him.  Two years at $4.5 per.  

 

At least!!!

[Jumbo]

 

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

17 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The best comp for Taylor Hienicke I can come up with is Danny Wuerfell/Steve Spurrier.  

 

 But don't forget, McLoughan was the first who didn't want to pay him $20m/year after the 2015 season.  That was where it all started.  

I think the best comparison is Todd Collins and Al Saunders. Collins could run Saunders offense quite well and we were lucky Jason Cantball got hurt in time for Collins to get us into the playoffs, but Collins later failed miserably as a backup for the Bears.

 

And McC's initial offer if I remember correctly was initially only for around $14m/yr.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

I think the best comparison is Todd Collins and Al Saunders. Collins could run Saunders offense quite well and we were lucky Jason Cantball got hurt in time for Collins to get us into the playoffs, but Collins later failed miserably as a backup for the Bears.

 

And McC's initial offer if I remember correctly was initially only for around $14m/yr.

Yeah, but Collins at least had NFL arm talent.  Not top-end arm talent, but he could make throws to the sideline and into tight windows.  

 

TH does not.  That's the big difference.  Which is why I went with Danny.  He physically could not play in the NFL.  

[88Comrade2000]

I would only give him a one year deal.

 

If Carson is cut, Ron is going after another veteran next year.

 

If Ron isn’t the coach next year, all bets are off as to who the qb is.

 

With Ron’s mom passing; he may decide to retire. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

With Ron’s mom passing; he may decide to retire. 

I don't know how much his mom's passing would have to do with it, but I could absolutely see him saying, "I cant' do this, nobody can do this, it's not worth it." and retiring.  

 

And in that case, who knows who Dan could get to coach the team. Probably somebody nobody has ever heard of, unless he makes a Godfather offer and somebody accepts it.  

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Having said all that, too many dismiss Howell because he was a fifth rounder. Many of those people love Heinicke, who wasn’t drafted. It would also be wise to keep in mind that if Howell came out a year prior he’s probably going top 10.

 

His senior tape wasn’t bad, in fact I think it was his best year when you consider he lost all of his weapons and his OL was so bad saying it was abysmal is a compliment.

 

He needed work on footwork and reading both halves of the field but had the rest of the tools, including the ability to move. 
 

People are way too quick to discount him.

 

It's living in the moment and out of sight, out of mind syndrome man.  Howell very well could be the answer but no one is there with him until he lights up the preseason next year or comes in for a few games later this year.

 

I noticed one thing about him when he got out of that jam against Ravens, escaped and ran for a first down towards our sideline around 4:30 mark.  His teammates erupted.  You can tell they like his "moxie" which he has similarity to Heinicke.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=_1QRa8UKlyl

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by HigSkin

[SpacePenguin]

Hopefully he goes elsewhere and takes Turner with him. Ron too, and all the ex-panther linemen.

[CommanderDOOM]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

no one wants to give ANY QB a chance to grow...The Eagles didn't give up on Hurts...

 

We ain't special, all fan bases without an obvious elite Qb have fan forums where they drag the qb.....

 

25 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron’s mom passing....

 

I did not know this. Rip Ron's mom. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, but Collins at least had NFL arm talent.  Not top-end arm talent, but he could make throws to the sideline and into tight windows.  

 

TH does not.  That's the big difference.  Which is why I went with Danny.  He physically could not play in the NFL.  

 

Collins, who? Todd Collins? lol...his throws to the sidelines often had hang time.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

34 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Collins, who? Todd Collins? lol...his throws to the sidelines often had hang time.

 

 

Hang time? Sure.  As though they were stuck in a Star Wars tractor beam?  No.  

 

He also didn't get nearly as many players sent to the blue tent (I get that the blue tent didn't exist at that point, but work with me here.)  

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Hang time? Sure.  As though they were stuck in a Star Wars tractor beam?  No.  

 

He also didn't get nearly as many players sent to the blue tent (I get that the blue tent didn't exist at that point, but work with me here.)  

 

 

 

LOL @ the part in bold 😂...actually at the Star Wars tractor beam part, too lol...

 

I think Collins had a stronger arm than Heinicke but that's not saying much (hell, I have a stronger arm than Heinicke lol) and was a bit more accurate...probably...I'm just guessing from memory, to be honest. But there was a LOT of complaining on here about Collins' lack of arm strength at the time. Then again, there was some about Mark "noodle arm" Brunell as well, if you can believe it.

[xxprodigyxx]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

There's nothing that at this point has convinced me Wentz won't be the starter in 2023.  God help us if Taylor is.

i dunno. i think i remember reading, a while back, that wentz can be cut next season with no cap hit so we'd get back 20+ million back. if washington needs money and that, combined with more contract finagling, allows them to resign payne and sweat (if they want both)...i could see them cutting him, even with the picks invested in him for the trade.

Edited November 2, 2022 by xxprodigyxx

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, xxprodigyxx said:

i dunno. i think i remember reading, a while back, that wentz can be cut next season with no cap hit so we'd get back 20+ million back. if washington needs money and that, combined with more contract finagling, allows them to resign payne and sweat (if they want both)...i could see them cutting him, even with the picks invested in him for the trade.

 

But then who's the QB?

 

The guy whoever they've tried to replace two offseasons in a row or a 5th round pick they were afraid to play against starters in August?

 

Those are options, not better options, Ron concerns me because he's not giving any indication he wants to draft a rookie. If he did, I'd have less reservations moving on from Wentz to get the cap space back.

 

Basically that cap space doesn't matter without an answer at QB.

[xxprodigyxx]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

But then who's the QB?

 

The guy whoever they've tried to replace two offseasons in a row or a 5th round pick they were afraid to play against starters in August?

 

Those are options, not better options, Ron concerns me because he's not giving any indication he wants to draft a rookie. If he did, I'd have less reservations moving on from Wentz to get the cap space back.

 

Basically that cap space doesn't matter without an answer at QB.

my assumption would be heinicke, howell, and a 1st round qb...IF this were to happen.

 

i know that doesn't give us a definitive answer at qb, but if i'm trying to make the best of a bad situation, i'd rather go with that than have wentz in the mix, if the front office lost faith in wentz and is only holding onto him because they want to save face, while losing payne and/or sweat.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, xxprodigyxx said:

my assumption would be heinicke, howell, and a 1st round qb...IF this were to happen.

 

Like, I hear ya, but it's an assumption based on what would maybe make more sense, not what they've given any indication they willing to do, they hard headed.

 

1 minute ago, xxprodigyxx said:

i know that doesn't give us a definitive answer at qb, but if i'm trying to make the best of a bad situation, i'd rather go with that than have wentz in the mix, if the front office lost faith in wentz and is only holding onto him because they want to save face, while losing payne and/or sweat.

 

My hope is we get rid if Fuller as well, trade Sweat, and use that money to pay Payne no matter what we do at QB.  

 

I can totally see them keeping Wentz to save face and try to convince us they have a better veteran option then the Trifecta you proposed.

 

I'm still waiting for something like combine to maybe change their mind, hard if we get a mind round pick.