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New OC Thread (And All Things Offensive - Accepting Any Qualified Applicants)


samy316
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There’s no thread on Scott Turner, so I’ll start a thread on him, because he’s becoming a gigantic portion of the reason why we’re one of the worst teams in the NFL.

 

This guy sucks.  We have what many consider an above average WR Corp, and we have at the very least an average RB group with potential.  I know we have issues with Carson Wentz (mainly immobility and inaccuracy), but Scott Turner might be the worst coordinator in football for how he’s managing the potential of this offense so far this year.  Is it the scheme, or is it the players?  So far, I think the overwhelming answer is it’s the coach and the scheme.  It’s unimaginative, it predictable and it’s failing. What Fitzpatrick said on Amazon Prime last night about our system, and it’s plug & play nature is an indictment on Turner as far as I’m concerned.  If we had an average offense coordinator, we might have hope for a playoff season.

 

Right now, I blame the offense squarely on Turner.  He should be the first member of the staff fired before anyone else.

Edited by samy316
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I was a Scott Turner supporter the first two years. Or at the very least, I was willing to see what he could do with more legitimate talent. Well has that talent now and it still sucks.

 

His play design is bad. He can't get guys into space. Everything is in traffic jams. Not enough slants or crossing routes or quick stuff. 

 

His in game "feel" is poor. Last night we got to 1st and goal and then called some garbage Samuel jet sweep which only got yards because he made a guy miss and the terrible Wentz option/keeper garbage. That whole drive was edge runs by Gibson and Montgomery and then we got completely away from it.

 

There was also a 3rd and 5 playcall where we threw a go route to a double covered Dyami Brown. Its 3rd and 5, why are we throwing deep low % throws to our #4 WR who is double teamed? 

 

And we ran the ball on 1st down like 95% of the time. It was like Gruden all over again but at least Gruden had Adrian Peterson that one year. We treat Brian Robinson like he's Walter Peyton 2.0. 

 

I know we have issues with the OL and Wentz has his inconsistencies, but there is no excuse for the offense to be THIS bad. Its on Turner to right the ship or GTFO.

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Would be cool if we swapped our offensive starters with Kansas City's starters and see what the difference would be.  I have a feeling that our guys would look much better than they do now under Turner. I also bet those guys from KC would look like trash pretty quickly.  

 

Long story short,  while our Oline isn't quite the Hoggs, and Wentz doesn't appear to be the next Brady, the current offensive coaching staff isn't helping these guys one bit. Play design and creativity doesn't exist with this staff.

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When the play by play team are opening questioning the coordinators & scheme it is pretty bad.  They normally don't get so specific in their criticisms but the fact that it seemed so targeted at what they were seeing on the field versus the quality of play itself is pretty telling.

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There are so many examples of him being a bad coach. 3rd down and all the goal line/2 point conversion plays dialed up. My main issue currently is Brian Robinson on 3rd down. I thought in the draft he was by far the best blocking back. With a horrible offensive line, let 3 receivers and tight end make the plays. JD Mckissic doesn’t have the mass and Gibson doesn’t have the experience or want to.

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I’m not interesting in arguing it only because I don’t think we can really know for sure at the moment. 
 

I just want to throw this out there for consideration:

 

up until this year he’s had a solid reputation.  
 

I’ve listened to cooley’s breakdowns and they consistently featured him wondering wtf turner is doing

 

his biggest criticism is all the 3rd down played work of crossers and other concepts that are easily handled by defense simply executing the handoff of coverage well. They have no diversity in play calling. 

 

he also wonders why they run run action out of gun when they never actually run it out of gun. And why they pass 70% on first down and do it with run action. And why when against Tennessee when they ran the ball well under center, they never ran pass concepts off under center formations. 
 

In short this offense is incredibly easy to game plan against and to predict what they’re doing. 
 

but here’s the thing. He said today that there’s only 3 possible answers:

- Scott turner is a bad OC from a scheme/play calling perspective 

 

- Scott turner has no ability to understand his talent and coach/design an offense to cater to that 

 

- Wentz is an awful QB 

 

now look he’s crushed wentz for:

- throwing incredibly hard balls on short routes making it hard to catch 

- missing people behind/high a lot

- missing wide open people, having no situational awareness, not moving through reads right/fast

- not being able to read the defense. Either presnap or when moving through the progressions. 
 

and I’ll repeat - turner has a solid reputation up until this year. 
 

do with that what you will. If you don’t listen to cooley’s breakdowns I highly recommend it. It’s the best hardcore football analysis I’ve ever heard. And he says what he thinks even if it’ll piss someone off. 

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Oh I should add - he seems to really think the offense is super dumbed down because wentz isn’t able to understand and run it effectively. 
 

so - he believes the lack of diversity may be because wentz is limited and they know it. 
 

but he’s not throwing away the idea that turner sucks. It’s just not his first hunch. 
 

also he says the o line problems can be overcome with wentz calling hot routes and the plays they run and that his inability to read the defense is probably the biggest issue in all of it. 
 

in fact he’s pointed out most defenses we faced are running a 3-3-5. They might put 5 guys on the line but they’re dropping into coverage. He thinks wentz may not recognize that, and that If you don’t recognize that when you look up to read the coverage after the snap it just looks like there’s dudes everywhere and no where to go with the ball 

He also said, just for fun for us, Gibbs would absolutely destroy this 3-3-5 trend in the NFL. He’d run counter constantly until they got out of it, because you cannot possibly stop counters in a 3-3-5. You don’t have enough bodies in the box and you don’t have enough size on the field to stop counters. 

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41 minutes ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

This is a much-needed thread. I think I would change the title to "...and all things offensive."

  

I had the same reaction. Our offense is offensive, but not in a good way.

 

Scott has some great schemes from what I can garner, but man he's seems to suffer from too many obvious shortcomings thst seem hard to explain. A head scratcher to me as I don't think most of the criticisms are just misplaced fan reactivity (often the case ime when coordinators are being pilloried consistently by the average fans).

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  • samy316 changed the title to Scott Turner Thread (And All Things Offensive)
10 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

  

I had the same reaction. Our offense is offensive, but not in a good way.

 

Scott has some great schemes from what I can garner, but man he's seems to suffer from too many obvious shortcomings thst seem hard to explain. A head scratcher to me as I don't think most of the criticisms are just misplaced fan reactivity (often the case ime when coordinators are being pilloried consistently by the average fans).


Just updated the thread title (for accuracy)

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All Turner had to do was watch Chicago's game plan...attack the edges. Turner was DETERMINED to run up the middle/between the tackles..right into the teeth of the defense. I don't think I saw 1 play action. Then he'd dial up passing plays where the Oline had SHOWN they couldn't protect. All the "Good" plays were edge plays and then he'd abandon it??? I remember Gibbs and Counter Trey...he'd run it until they stopped it.  I think he's just choosing plays with no "anticipation" as to the expected defensive counter.

 

 

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4 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

All Turner had to do was watch Chicago's game plan...attack the edges. Turner was DETERMINED to run up the middle/between the tackles..right into the teeth of the defense. I don't think I saw 1 play action. Then he'd dial up passing plays where the Oline had SHOWN they couldn't protect. All the "Good" plays were edge plays and then he'd abandon it??? I remember Gibbs and Counter Trey...he'd run it until they stopped it.  I think he's just choosing plays with no "anticipation" as to the expected defensive counter.

 

 

He calls run when we should pass and pass when we should run. 

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5 hours ago, tshile said:

Oh I should add - he seems to really think the offense is super dumbed down because wentz isn’t able to understand and run it effectively. 
 

so - he believes the lack of diversity may be because wentz is limited and they know it. 
 

but he’s not throwing away the idea that turner sucks. It’s just not his first hunch. 
 

also he says the o line problems can be overcome with wentz calling hot routes and the plays they run and that his inability to read the defense is probably the biggest issue in all of it. 
 

in fact he’s pointed out most defenses we faced are running a 3-3-5. They might put 5 guys on the line but they’re dropping into coverage. He thinks wentz may not recognize that, and that If you don’t recognize that when you look up to read the coverage after the snap it just looks like there’s dudes everywhere and no where to go with the ball 

He also said, just for fun for us, Gibbs would absolutely destroy this 3-3-5 trend in the NFL. He’d run counter constantly until they got out of it, because you cannot possibly stop counters in a 3-3-5. You don’t have enough bodies in the box and you don’t have enough size on the field to stop counters. 


LOL.  This isn’t hard.  Wentz sucks.  We know it, the league knows, everyone other than Dan knows it.  He ****ing sucks.  I don’t care how many yards he has in X game or how many TDs he throws when it doesn’t matter.  He sucks.  Everyone needs to stop thinking so hard, trust their eyeballs, and Occums Razor.

 

ETA: Turner is in year 3 and if you aren’t good by year 3, you suck too.  

Edited by 86 Snyder
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8 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

LOL.  This isn’t hard.  Wentz sucks.  We know it, the league knows, everyone other than Dan knows it.  He ****ing sucks


I mean I said that when we traded for him. They let go of a starter without a plan. You don’t do that unless literally anything else would be better. 
 

I don’t think as many people think this as you claim. There’s plenty of people making arguments that suggest otherwise 

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3 minutes ago, tshile said:


I mean I said that when we traded for him. They let go of a starter without a plan. You don’t do that unless literally anything else would be better. 
 

I don’t think as many people think this as you claim. There’s plenty of people making arguments that suggest otherwise 


That wasn’t a comment against you.  Just saying.

 

I disagree.  Pretty much everyone who evaluates what’s happening in the league talks **** about Wentz.  Either he sucks or it’s the biggest witch hunt of all time lol.

 

P.S. well yes there are some posters here….

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6 hours ago, tshile said:

I’m not interesting in arguing it only because I don’t think we can really know for sure at the moment. 
 

I just want to throw this out there for consideration:

 

up until this year he’s had a solid reputation.  

I just dont think thats the case at all.  Where have you ever seen that?  Is there any source, any journalist that has said that?  Ron Rivera thinks Turner is good.  Thats one guy, and that is the entirety of Turners OC career, and the last 5 seasons he has coached.  One guy keeps hiring him to do a bad job, no other team has ever had him on their staff and doing a good job calling or designing plays.  And by no "other" team I mean no team including the W's, but emphasizing he only has a job because of Ron.  

 

Scott Turners ENTIRE NFL career is one of Ron Rivera and his dad.  Look it up.  He was hired in 2011 as a QC coach under Rivera.  In 2013, his dad hired him to be WR coach in Cleveland.  In 2014, when Norv moved to the Vikings, his Dad hired thim to be the QB coach.  When he was fired in 2017, no NFL team wanted him so he became a college analyst at Michigan.  Then, Rivera hired him in 2018,  Then hired him in 2020.  The ONLY two people to have ever hired Turner in the NFL are Ron Rivera, and Scotts dad.

 

 

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  • samy316 changed the title to New OC Thread (And All Things Offensive - Accepting Any Qualified Applicants)

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