2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Dawg, if we could land Harrison I'd be thrilled too.  I like Harrison and Darnell both.  I think in time, Darnell could play both in a year or two.  I hope we can land one of the two.  I don't think we have a shot at Paris unless we trade up and I don't want us to do that.  If trade, I would we rather trade down and get some extra picks.   

 

Depends on how comfortable these guys are switching sides. It's not easy. I hate drafting a guy, starting them on one side and then switching them. Some guys can do it, yes. But not everyone. I coach offensive line. I have coached guys who have went on to have solid college careers. I coached TEs (and was an assistant OL guy) at the D3 level. Only the very best of the best can switch sides at each level. It's easier to do it in Pop Warner than MS. Easier at MS than HS. Easier at HS than D3. Easier at D3 than D1. Easier at D1 than NFL.

 

Not saying some of these guys couldn't change sides, but I really hate the idea of switching a guy mid career unless they are exceptional. 

[method man]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I like both of those guys in different ways. But I think there will be better players.

 

I think Branch would help us more than either of them, for instance.

 

I think Jack Campbell is a better player than both (but 16 is too early for him as well) and he'd be a bigger help to our D. 

 

I think Deonte Banks is on a similar level to Ringo.

 

I think Cam Smith is as well but I hear something about character issues with him?

 

I think there will be multiple edges better.

 

I think Double A (Edge/DT) is better. 

 

Porter I could see a case for as his only real weakness is his hands, which doesn't negate how good he is. 

 

Ringo is real raw. 

Isn’t Banks a lot cleaner than Ringo? I think what hurts Banks relative to the top 3 is he missed his sophomore season so there are really only two seasons of tape on him with one of those being his true freshman season

[KDawg]

Just now, method man said:

Isn’t Banks a lot cleaner than Ringo? I think what hurts Banks relative to the top 3 is he missed his sophomore season so there are really only two seasons of tape on him with one of those being his true freshman season

 

Cleaner yes, also played lesser comp. So it's not an easy comparison. But he's not as raw as Ringo. 

 

I think Ringo is going to have a good NFL career. But he is a risk over more sure things that are just as talented. And I don't see his upside being higher than Gonzo, Spoon or even Porter. 

[mhd24]

38 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think it's tough on the player to have to reverse their footwork so I wouldn't flip my tackles outside of training camp except when injuries create emergencies.  But I wouldn't hesitate to draft a college RT and play him at LT if that's where my opening is that involves the least amount of disruption to the guys I already have on my line.

 

My point is that the role of the modern LT and RT are just mirror images flipped from each other.  They are both playing the same way, just with flipped footwork, and both are going to need to be able to play on an island in pass pro.

 

Left tackles definitely make more money on average, and I think that's a reflection of the greater prestige the position has left over from the pre-shotgun spread era of football.  The best tackles want to play LT and tend to play there, so they make more money for the position.  The market inefficiency is to the point where a really savvy and ruthless team might actually take advantage of this (Philly) and play their best tackle at RT so they can pay him less than he'd get on the open market as a LT.  It's worked for them: there is no world where Laremy Tunsil is even close to being as good as Lane Johnson, but the difference in their salary is huge.  Tunsil is half as good as him and makes almost twice as much.

That's actually why I would draft Dawand Jones as a RT and play him there and move my vets around him, knowing that it's going to save me money second contract time if Dawand works out.

It's not necessarily true.  KC just signed Jawaan Taylor (who only played RT for the Jags) to be their new LT.  

[Going Commando]

Some thoughts on Dawand Jones:

 

- I think there is a pretty good chance that he ends up being the best OL from this class.  I think his upside is elite and in the same tier as Jalen Carter/Bryan Bresee/Will Anderson, and I think that he's the most physically dominant lineman in the class other than Bresee and Carter.  His power is off the charts good and he absolutely imposed his will on an Iowa line in a game where Paris Johnson Jr kinda struggled a bit.

 

- That said, Dawand has a redirect issue which is just about the only way he gets beat.  Only happened once in the game, but it showed a potential weakness that NFL linemen could attack: show hard outside then cut back inside and Dawand is going to have to gather up quite a bit of mass to mirror you.  But I think Dawand can improve

 

- Dawand is still raw and not what I would call a consistent technician (even though he wins more consistently than any of the other OLs IMO) and you mainly notice this in his sets.  There is some laziness on sets, maybe some over-reliance on his natural gifts/length advantage.  There are plays where he barely even gets out of his stance and just punches the lineman, and I think it could be because he's tired.  Could be a conditioning issue.

 

- Dawand already has surprisingly good hands though.  His punches are what you'd expect from someone with his length and power, and I noticed that he's really cognizant and consistent about clearing the DL's hands when they get into his chest.  You can tell it's something he's worked on and the speed and power of his hands are special.  I'd like to see him go against Bresee--one of the only other guys in his class of power/explosiveness.  Darnell Wright couldn't clear Bresee's hands when he got into Wright's chest, Bresee's grip strength is absolutely freakish.  I want to see if Wright could handle him.  I have a feeling the camp and practice battles between Dawand and John Allen would be epic.

 

- When Dawand wins, he wins.  Absolutely flattens guys, tons of effortless pancakes every game, and there is nobody better at snatching DLs than him.  It's some of the most nonchalant physical dominance you're going to see.  There was a play in the Iowa game where he got beat back inside on a loop, and I think it might have been against Van Ness, but Dawand still got a punch on him as he went back inside and the guy staggered over and fell on what would have been a clear path to the QB inside.  Bought Stroud a second or two to get the ball out.  Stuff like that is a demonstration of how big a margin for error Dawand is going to have via his length and strength.

 

Speaking of Van Ness, this guy is going to be a player.  He is an absolute specimen of an edge, basically what you'd draw up in the lab.  One of the few speed to power combos that can get a win off Dawand Jones.  He's an NFL athlete for sure, upside is really high with him.

 

Wanted to say that the Georgia and Iowa film are two games now where I thought Dawand played better than Paris Johnson.  I don't think the gap between them is that big, and I think Dawand's actually got higher upside than Paris.

 

CJ Stroud struggled in the first half of the Iowa game, as did Harrison, Egbuka, and Smith-Njigba.  I think JSN was noticeably playing injured in that game.  But when Stroud finally deciphered the Iowa defense in the second half, by God he dominated.  Dimes all over the field and Egbuka and Harrison started balling and feeding off him.  He is such an accurate first and second level passer.  Super catchable ball and puts it on you in stride.  There is a real Joe Burrow-like quality to his game.  Not the athlete and scramble threat that Burrow is, definite run to throw guy, but he looks really good throwing on the run.  I still think Bryce Young is a little bit better than him, but it kind of feels like this is a Mahomes vs Burrow type of dynamic between them and I think the #1 pick could go either way (and be a good pick).  Carolina is lucky, you don't normally get to trade up to #1 in a year where the QB prospects are this good.

 

Lastly, I think we're going to look back on this Ohio State team as one of the most talented to not win a championship.  We're going to wonder:

A - how did this brewing mess of a Georgia team beat them?

B - how the **** did this Michigan team beat them?

 

There are going to be like five freaking NFL pro-bowlers coming from that offense.  They really should have won that Georgia game, and I think they would have done it comfortably if they had a healthy Jaxon Smith-Njigba.

[seantaylor=god]

Great post, @Going Commando. It seems in the media there is a lot less love for him and lately mocks have him slipping to the second. I was particular impressed with what I read about his preparation and detail in analyzing other rushers moves and how to attack their weakness. The mental side of the game and his ridiculous size makes me pretty comfortable that he will develop into a adequate starting RT, at minimum.
 

Keim said he knows they are interested in trading down, I wonder if they think they can get him lower.

 

I read an interesting post somewhere that our interest in Joey Porter Jr may be a smokescreen to try and entice a slight trade down with Pittsburgh or Detroit. Along with that, it wouldn’t surprise me if we start hearing rumors that even though we have Howell, we really like Will Levis at QB to try and trade down. Teams like Detroit, Tampa Bay, Seattle, Baltimore,etc. may like him and want to get ahead of a second QB run.

Edited March 22, 2023 by seantaylor=god

[Going Commando]

Also wanted to say about Dawand that I had been underrating his run blocking before now.  He is an awesome run blocker, even better than Andrew Thomas was IMO.  Can totally wipe out the line of scrimmage on down blocks where you are seeing multiple DLs just caught up in his traffic.  And he is a terrifying second level blocker when he gets running out in space.  Accurate, efficient with his movement, and dominating.  You've got no choice but to start backpedaling and widening your pursuit angle when he's coming downhill at you.  Makes it easy as a runner, just follow #79.

 

I think this dude is so good.  We've got to get him.  If we don't pick him at 16, I think there is a good chance the Steelers pick him at 17. 

 

This video is fun:

 

 

Big Thanos lol.

[HigSkin]

 

[Chump Bailey]

Boo to Forbes @ 16

 

Yeah to Dawand @ 16 among others

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, Conn said:

He on anyone’s radar? 

 

I am watching him right now, him and Jordan McFadden, I'll post my take shortly

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

Also wanted to say about Dawand that I had been underrating his run blocking before now.  He is an awesome run blocker, even better than Andrew Thomas was IMO.  Can totally wipe out the line of scrimmage on down blocks where you are seeing multiple DLs just caught up in his traffic.  And he is a terrifying second level blocker when he gets running out in space.  Accurate, efficient with his movement, and dominating.  You've got no choice but to start backpedaling and widening your pursuit angle when he's coming downhill at you.  Makes it easy as a runner, just follow #79.

 

I think this dude is so good.  We've got to get him.  If we don't pick him at 16, I think there is a good chance the Steelers pick him at 17. 

 

This video is fun:

 

 

Big Thanos lol.

 

Agree. I posted this about a week or so ago, look at the hole he helped create.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I would agree with this.  The problem for us though is we are fine on the right side.  After Johnson I don't think anyone is a sure thing starting left tackle.  I think Jones and Bergeron have potential but I haven't seen anything about us interested in them.  It seems we have only interviewed right tackles. 

 

I mentioned yesterday they met with Dawand Jones multiple times (3 times) and then today at his pro-day (4th).  But not Bergeron.  I checked that, am wrong.  They met with Bergeron now twice.

 

The three meetings have been Torrence, D. Jones, D, Wright.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I mentioned yesterday they met with Dawand Jones multiple times (3 times) and then today at his pro-day (4th).  But not Bergeron.  I checked that, am wrong.  They met with Bergeron now twice.

 

The three meetings have been Torrence, D. Jones, D, Wright.

I swear they read this thread based on some of their drafts recently

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, RWJ said:

Thoughts on this SIP.  Like others have said RT is the position that they are projecting him at with big time questions marks at LT.  I think he's a pure RT and we need LT talent or  LT that can play RT.  That's why I like Darnell Wright. 

 

I like Dawand better both in pass protection and run blocking over Wright.   But I do like Wright.  Wright played LT the season before and wasn't nearly as good at that spot compared to RT.   

 

I do think the RT position's importance has been heightened in recent years with more pass rushers coming from that direction.  But LT is still IMO mopre important, protecting the QB's blind side, and more elite pass rushers still seem to come from the left. 

 

Both players IMO are likely at their best at RT -- with Wright we already have a sample size of him in one spot versus another.  

 

 

[RabidFan]

14 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I prefer him too.  I think we get too wrapped up in dudes who are 6'2+ at the corner positions, when studs like Jaire Alexander and Tre White and Stephon Gilmore and Darrelle Revis and Champ Bailey are all 5'11 guys like Spoon.

 

I think Spoon is a star who can take over games in a way that the other corners didn't really demonstrate in college.  Never gonna forget that Michigan game where he almost single-handedly willed his team to the W against a vastly superior opponent.

Just because Gonzo is a better athlete does in no way mean he'll be a better corner.  Hell Troy Apke got a 9.94 RAS score and couldn't play DB at all.

 

Tape means more than RAS scores and in a position when a player is often on an island 1 v 1, game tape should be the deciding factor IMO.

[KDawg]

Just now, RabidFan said:

Just because Gonzo is a better athlete does in no way mean he'll be a better corner.  Hell Troy Apke got a 9.94 RAS score and couldn't play DB at all.

 

Tape means more than RAS scores and in a position when a player is often on an island 1 v 1, game tape should be the deciding factor IMO.

 

Gonzo has good tape.

 

But it's not as good as Spoon's. Spoon is CB1 in my eyes. Gonzo is 2. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I was just reading about playing on the left versus right on the O line.  It's interesting.  Seems like its an adjustment for some.

 

If they are in win now mode makes me wonder if for example they are looking for a LG they flat out sign a college LG as opposed to a RG.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/penei-sewell-struggles-right-tackle-detroit-lions/

 

Have you ever wondered why a guy seemingly so equipped and well-statured to anchor the right side of the line just doesn’t cut it there? Or why a player with all the necessary athletic skills for the left tackle spot makes a better player on the right side? While the rapid exponential growth of media, analytics, and scouting tools have introduced a plethora of information at our fingertips, sometimes it’s best to just keep it simple and avoid change.

 

For many, the right and left sides of the line are interchangeable spots. If a player is able to dominate at right guard, he surely can do the same on the left side, right? And if a tackle is dominant on the left side, it would require little transition to the opposite side.

As we’ve seen with the Detroit Lions’ No. 7 overall selection Penei Sewell, that simply isn’t the case.

 

For context, envision a snowboarder being asked to immediately switch their lead leg, or a soccer player primarily working opposite their dominant foot. Or furthermore, trying to brush your teeth with the opposite hand. While it’s completely doable, the marathon of hours, reps, and muscle memory are vacant, leaving a serviceable gap for players to fill when asked to switch to the opposite side of the offensive line. Comparably, it isn’t as simple as asking a corner to slide inside or moving a receiver across the formation, the entire shift in footwork, vision, and mental fortitude is put to its ultimate limit. 

 

Deemed by many as a generational talent during his illustrious career at the University of Oregon, Sewell sat out the 2020 COVID-rattled college football season in preparation for the 2021 NFL Draft. It was a move relatively unquestioned within front offices around the league due to his immense ceiling, and Sewell entered Detroit as the preemptive starter on the left side of the line. However, as the summer has progressed, his projection has taken a massive hit, as his move to right tackle has come with an army of skeptics toward newly-minted head coach Dan Campbell. 

 

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/3/29/18287117/nfl-mailbag-offensive-linemen-switch-playoffs-2019-predictions

 

Here’s what you asked me this week on Twitter. If you have any questions you’d like answered in the future, hit me up: @geoffschwartz.

What is the most difficult position switch for an offensive lineman to make on the O-line that the majority of people think is easy? (ex: OT to OG or LT to RT etc) — @pmeredith77

I get asked this question more than any other. The majority of people believe switching positions is easy because they’ve never done it before. Moving from side to side is easy for some, but most often, it takes a while to adjust. In the immortal words of Josh Sitton, switching from one side to the other is “like wiping your ass with the other hand.”

Everything is awkward and different. I had to switch from the right side to the left side (LG) a couple times in my career. It always went bad. ALWAYS. I was never comfortable at left guard. I’d always punch like I was at right tackle and when I was being bull-rushed, I’d switch my stagger to anchor the bull like a right guard, thus allowing myself to get beat inside.

According to social media, switching from tackle to guard is the “easy” solution for a tackle who’s struggling. Not so fast my friend. If an offensive tackle has good hands, generally has good movement skills but might lack some foot quickness to play tackle, then moving inside could be productive. If an offensive tackle is struggling with his strike and punch location, plus has bad feet, then moving inside is a no-go. Things happen fast at guard. Your hands must be ready for action now. And if you miss with your hands, your base better be good so you’re able to recover.

So in short, moving a struggling OT to OG isn’t easy, and it’s rarely the solution.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I've said so before, he feels like a Steeler but hope not, hope he's here.

 

 

 

 

 

Paris Johnson Stars in Offensive Line Drills

Offensive line drills are over. Dawand Jones did not participate.

 

Paris Johnson was nothing less than spectacular. He showed great bend, athleticism, and agility. During pulling drills he moved like a very athletic defensive end. His footwork in pass protection drills was outstanding. Johnson looked every bit like the top offensive lineman in this draft and a top-10 pick.

The New York Jets ran both Johnson and center Luke Wypler through additional offensive line drills. Tennessee Titans head coach Mike Vrabel kept close watch while this was going on.

Wypler also had a fine day. He wasn’t as athletic or quick compared to his teammate yet very much looked like he has starting potential on Sunday for a team that needs a center.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Tossing in another name in the CB hat that is underrated IMO:

 

Myles Brooks, Louisiana Tech

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Depends on how comfortable these guys are switching sides. It's not easy. I hate drafting a guy, starting them on one side and then switching them. Some guys can do it, yes. But not everyone. I coach offensive line. I have coached guys who have went on to have solid college careers. I coached TEs (and was an assistant OL guy) at the D3 level. Only the very best of the best can switch sides at each level. It's easier to do it in Pop Warner than MS. Easier at MS than HS. Easier at HS than D3. Easier at D3 than D1. Easier at D1 than NFL.

 

Not saying some of these guys couldn't change sides, but I really hate the idea of switching a guy mid career unless they are exceptional. 

I can't stand drafting guys and having them change positions either. Its something this franchise has tried to do for 20+ years. Get a guy and put him where he excels right away and let him grow and develop there.

[Going Commando]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was just reading about playing on the left versus right on the O line.  It's interesting.  Seems like its an adjustment for some.

 

If they are in win now mode makes me wonder if for example they are looking for a LG they flat out sign a college LG as opposed to a RG.

 

It's not easy because you have to learn to sync your hands to the opposite foot.  Basically flip your technique.  It's hard on the player at first, especially if you've got a long time vet who has his way of doing things that he's gotten used to.  But it is an imminently doable switch, tons of NFL and college tackles do it every single year, and it's kind of the life of a back up OL.  Or even guys who are starters who aren't fortunate enough to get drafted into a steady line with rock solid continuity.  Andrew Wylie started at a different spot from the year before each season of his career so far.

 

When you're drafting a foundation tackle like we would be doing with Dawand Jones in the first round, the time to make the side switch is their rookie season when they're already going through a major adjustment period and haven't gotten set in their techniques yet.  But he'd also be the most talented guy on our line as a rookie, and the smart long term play would be to find the spot he's best at and shuffle everyone else around him, since he's the one who will be here the longest if everything goes according to plan.

 

The line combo I would want to see is Leno and Dawand at the tackle spots, Cosmi and Wylie at the guard spots, and Gates/Roullier at OC.  I especially like a potential right side of Cosmi/Jones because I think that could be dominating athleticism and size and power the run game in that direction.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's not easy because you have to learn to sync your hands to the opposite foot.  Basically flip your technique.  It's hard on the player at first, especially if you've got a long time vet who has his way of doing things that he's gotten used to.  But it is an imminently doable switch, tons of NFL and college tackles do it every single year, and it's kind of the life of a back up OL.  Or even guys who are starters who aren't fortunate enough to get drafted into a steady line with rock solid continuity.  Andrew Wylie started at a different spot from the year before each season of his career so far.

 

 

Even though I am a righty I used to play a lot of left midfield in soccer, and I can switch to play either side without much trouble but yeah it makes sense as to hand placement, etc its not an easy adjustment for an NFL O lineman.

 

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

When you're drafting a foundation tackle like we would be doing with Dawand Jones in the first round, the time to make the side switch is their rookie season when they're already going through a major adjustment period and haven't gotten set in their techniques yet.  But he'd also be the most talented guy on our line as a rookie, and the smart long term play would be to find the spot he's best at and shuffle everyone else around him, since he's the one who will be here the longest if everything goes according to plan.

 

 

Agree, I am with you on the Dawand Jones hype.  I posted originally about him months back.  And the more I've digested and the more I've watched the more I like.  He's my tackle #2 right now.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Starry Plough]

You guys are so friggen convincing! I was finally set on Anton Harrison at #16 (and even managed to trade back in a mock simulator yesterday and still get him) only to now have to re-adjust again to Dawand Jones! 😅

 

Glad to see there’s a lot more optimism for potential tackle picks on the offensive line compared to a little earlier in the college season though, when the cupboard was looking a little bare and especially so given we seem almost locked in on that front (at least according to Keim and possibly a few others.

[Going Commando]

There are two components to this argument about the value/potential/skill set of LT vs RT. 

 

The first component of the argument is over the difficulty in switching sides due to technique differences.  I think we all agree that the technique transition is tricky and involves an uncomfortable adjustment period for anyone who isn't a really ambidextrous or technically gifted lineman.  But it's a doable change in technique that tons of OLs are expected to be able to handle as they're finding their positions on the depth chart heading into a season. 

 

The second component of the argument is whether or not there is a schematic/skill set difference between the RT and LT position that is meaningful, and this where I am disagreeing with others.  I don't think there is.  It used to be that you'd hide your less athletic tackle on the right side because you could help him with the TE and your QB had to take a seven step drop from under center on your long passing plays, leaving his back to the left side.  But this really isn't how passing offense is commonly done any more.  A shotgun drop is not like an under-center drop, the steps are shallower, fewer, you can see the field way better, and you never turn your back to the line running play action.  It makes it a lot easier to see left side pressure.  And your formations are spread now and your six man protections are more likely to use the back instead of the tight end.  You can have your back help out anywhere on your line.

 

You see the symmetry of protection schemes now in the fact that edges don't play on a dedicated side any more.  They move from game to game and throughout a game.  Nick Bosa and TJ Watt are coming from both sides now.  They will basically line them up over whichever of your tackles is worse.

 

NFL teams approach the OT position as if it's interchangeable in importance too, and will spend premium assets on a tackle and then expect him to flip sides in order to fit in with the parts of their line that are already built.  The Chiefs have done it with both Orlando Jones and Jawan Taylor, the Eagles drafted Lane Johnson 4th overall as a LT from college and played him at RT, the Lions drafted Penei Sewell 7th overall and moved him to RT, etc.  IMO thinking of an OT prospect as being for one side only is an outdated way of looking at the NFL game, and that the skill set and schematic responsibility of both tackle spots is the same now.  TBH I think the main difference of the positions is just the money.  RTs still have a harder time making as much as LTs because of a market inefficiency where teams are taking advantage of outdated precedents to pay RTs less.

[Going Commando]

9 minutes ago, Starry Plough said:

You guys are so friggen convincing! I was finally set on Anton Harrison at #16 (and even managed to trade back in a mock simulator yesterday and still get him) only to now have to re-adjust again to Dawand Jones! 😅

 

Glad to see there’s a lot more optimism for potential tackle picks on the offensive line compared to a little earlier in the college season though, when the cupboard was looking a little bare and especially so given we seem almost locked in on that front (at least according to Keim and possibly a few others.

 

I really like Harrison too, and think he can be a Pro-Bowl OT.  He's faster and rangier than Dawand, so he might be a better fit for some teams.  But I think Dawand is just better and more special than him.  Dawand is a unicorn in that there are only a couple of guys in the entire league who are as big and athletic as him.  The two most recent guys Daniel Faalele and Mekhi Becton college film sucked compared to Dawand's film.  Usually guys this big aren't that good.  Maybe that's what's putting draftniks off of Dawand?  Getting burned by Becton?

 

There is also something to be gained in the identity and scheme department from having dominant size.  If you draft Dawand in the first and someone like Darnell Washington in the second, you've created an offensive identity off of just that.  Especially when you already have Cosmi available to play RG.  You've created a part of an offense that almost every defense is going to struggle to fit runs against.  You've got such easy run scheming on that side, and can build off the fact that defenses are going to have to sell out to stop you from getting six yards a carry on runs to the right.  Everything snow balls from that initial mismatch you've created on the right side.

 

Anton is my OT3 and would be a fantastic consolation for missing on Dawand, but I'm picking Dawand at 16 if both are on the board.  I might even pick him over PJJr if both were there, although I'm not 100% on that take and I doubt we'll have to make that choice anyway.

 

I think the anxiety for me about the quality of the OT class really comes down to its depth.  I like the five first round options sans Broderick Jones.  But I think there is a cliff after them where I'm not confident about the rest of the class.  I think we have to go OT in the first if we want a rookie starter.  That's not to say OT isn't worth drafting outside the first, because you can get pipeline talent to develop over time.  Just that I think the only way we can be confident in getting a year one upgrade to our tackle depth chart is with one of the first round OTs.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

There are two components to this argument about the value/potential/skill set of LT vs RT. 

 

The first component of the argument is over the difficulty in switching sides due to technique differences.  I think we all agree that the technique transition is tricky and involves an uncomfortable adjustment period for anyone who isn't a really ambidextrous or technically gifted lineman.  But it's a doable change in technique that tons of OLs are expected to be able to handle as they're finding their positions on the depth chart heading into a season. 

 

The second component of the argument is whether or not there is a schematic/skill set difference between the RT and LT position that is meaningful, and this where I am disagreeing with others.  I don't think there is.  It used to be that you'd hide your less athletic tackle on the right side because you could help him with the TE and your QB had to take a seven step drop from under center on your long passing plays, leaving his back to the left side.  But this really isn't how passing offense is commonly done any more.  A shotgun drop is not like an under-center drop, the steps are shallower, fewer, you can see the field way better, and you never turn your back to the line running play action.  It makes it a lot easier to see left side pressure.  And your formations are spread now and your six man protections are more likely to use the back instead of the tight end.  You can have your back help out anywhere on your line.

 

You see the symmetry of protection schemes now in the fact that edges don't play on a dedicated side any more.  They move from game to game and throughout a game.  Nick Bosa and TJ Watt are coming from both sides now.  They will basically line them up over whichever of your tackles is worse.

 

NFL teams approach the OT position as if it's interchangeable in importance too, and will spend premium assets on a tackle and then expect him to flip sides in order to fit in with the parts of their line that are already built.  The Chiefs have done it with both Orlando Jones and Jawan Taylor, the Eagles drafted Lane Johnson 4th overall as a LT from college and played him at RT, the Lions drafted Penei Sewell 7th overall and moved him to RT, etc.  IMO thinking of an OT prospect as being for one side only is an outdated way of looking at the NFL game, and that the skill set and schematic responsibility of both tackle spots is the same now.  TBH I think the main difference of the positions is just the money.  RTs still have a harder time making as much as LTs because of a market inefficiency where teams are taking advantage of outdated precedents to pay RTs less.

Did anyone think the skill set was different between left and right?

 

It’s technique, stance and comfort. And money. That’s the difference.

 

But skill set varies simply based on comfortability. I don’t throw a ball as well with my left than my right. Playing OL can be similar in nature.