2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[SoCalSkins]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We're gonna go OL. Not sure about T or G but if I were a betting man I'd bet big we go OL at 16 and try to address DB in round 2.

 

I really really really hope we don't go G. I have no idea who the best T prospect is though after Paris Johnson. Is it Anton Harrison?

If Joey Porter Jr is there he will be tough to pass up. All these kids of NFL players have been balling recently. We definitely need an athletic tackle who can actually play tackle in the NFL if we grab one in the first. We have drafted so many tackles who ended up playing guard over the years and I’m tired of it.

[Conn]

He on anyone’s radar? 

[Going Commando]

54 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

Logan Paulsen said he preferred Witherspoon to Gonzalez because Witherspoon was more competitive, physical and tough even though Gonzalez was more athletic. 

 

I prefer him too.  I think we get too wrapped up in dudes who are 6'2+ at the corner positions, when studs like Jaire Alexander and Tre White and Stephon Gilmore and Darrelle Revis and Champ Bailey are all 5'11 guys like Spoon.

 

I think Spoon is a star who can take over games in a way that the other corners didn't really demonstrate in college.  Never gonna forget that Michigan game where he almost single-handedly willed his team to the W against a vastly superior opponent.

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I prefer him too.  I think we get too wrapped up in dudes who are 6'2+ at the corner positions, when studs like Jaire Alexander and Tre White and Stephon Gilmore and Darrelle Revis and Champ Bailey are all 5'11 guys like Spoon.

 

I think Spoon is a star who can take over games in a way that the other corners didn't really demonstrate in college.  Never gonna forget that Michigan game where he almost single-handedly willed his team to the W against a vastly superior opponent.

 

 

I don't see Witherspoon falling to us at all.  Could go:

6). Detroit (Have a major CB need, although mitigated with FA signings)

7). Vegas (Need help everywhere on defense.  Their FO is from NE (who prioritizes secondary).

8.  Atlanta (Could see them going DB to pair with AJ Terrell).

9). Chicago (maybe, although they play a zone heavy scheme).

10). Philly (Even though they resigned both CBs, both are over 30).

11). Titans (no way)

12). Houston (Doubtful after drafting Stingley last year).

13). Jets (No way.  Either this pick is GB's, or Jets take O-line/Bijan).

14). NE (Could see it).

15). GB (Doubtful considering they have Jaire & Stokes).

[Chump Bailey]

54 minutes ago, Conn said:

He on anyone’s radar? 

 

 

Noticed he has made quite the jump on the site I refer to most often. Not looked at him closely, yet  I've mostly been focused on the OT side of things.

[method man]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Thoughts on this SIP.  Like others have said RT is the position that they are projecting him at with big time questions marks at LT.  I think he's a pure RT and we need LT talent or  LT that can play RT.  That's why I like Darnell Wright. 

Consensus on Wright is that he is a RT. Not sure he has the athleticism to play RT

 

I think they like Dawand’s mindset and cerebral approach. It comes through in this interview

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/senior-bowl-2023-dawand-jones-interview/

Edited March 22 by method man

[KDawg]

8 hours ago, RWJ said:

Thoughts on this SIP.  Like others have said RT is the position that they are projecting him at with big time questions marks at LT.  I think he's a pure RT and we need LT talent or  LT that can play RT.  That's why I like Darnell Wright. 

Darnell is probably more of a RT, too. The only guy in this class who is a pure LT is Paris Johnson, imo. Anton Harrison probably slots in there as well.

 

Dawand & Darnell are probably more RT that maybe could play LT. 

[DWinzit]

28 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Darnell is probably more of a RT, too. The only guy in this class who is a pure LT is Paris Johnson, imo. Anton Harrison probably slots in there as well.

 

Dawand & Darnell are probably more RT that maybe could play LT. 

Not the best year to want a LT.

 

Most prospects are either decent RT's who might be able to play LT eventually, or RT's who might be better moving inside.

 

We already have a number of the latter on our roster.

 

My guess is they hope for Anton or Dawand in the first.

 

If not, perhaps they take Mayer in the first to assist T's then go inside in the 2nd or third round

[KDawg]

Just now, DWinzit said:

Not the best year to want a LT.

 

Most prospects are either decent RT's who might be able to play LT eventually, or RT's who might be better moving inside.

 

We already have a number of the latter on our roster.

 

My guess is they hope for Anton or Dawand in the first.

 

If not, perhaps they take Mayer in the first to assist T's then go inside in the 2nd or third round

 

I think they may be going in a different direction than we think.

 

I do believe their first priority is OL. If their guy isn't there or they want to trade back is where I think we could get some surprises.

 

I would not rule out Bijan. New ownership group coming in is going to want starpower...

 

and the Law Firm of Robinson & Robinson is a great start to that marketing. Both fun runners who make things happen.

 

Also could see a Gibbs, Gibson & Robinson Law Firm.

 

I'm not saying I'm for or against it. But stars are stars.

 

But again, I think OL is priority one. Like SIP, I think Keim is generally on the money and everything the Commandos have done to this point leads to that being the absolute target and goal. We'll see if the guy they want is there, though. 

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think they may be going in a different direction than we think.

 

I do believe their first priority is OL. If their guy isn't there or they want to trade back is where I think we could get some surprises.

 

I would not rule out Bijan. New ownership group coming in is going to want starpower...

 

and the Law Firm of Robinson & Robinson is a great start to that marketing. Both fun runners who make things happen.

 

Also could see a Gibbs, Gibson & Robinson Law Firm.

 

I'm not saying I'm for or against it. But stars are stars.

 

But again, I think OL is priority one. Like SIP, I think Keim is generally on the money and everything the Commandos have done to this point leads to that being the absolute target and goal. We'll see if the guy they want is there, though. 

It feels like a mistake and as a result, would probably be correct.....(yup, that's the Snyder factor still in play in my head)

 

There are a lot of good RB's in the draft to match up with Gibby and Robinson

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, Conn said:

He on anyone’s radar? 

 

Karl Brooks is the answer to his question.  He's going in the second round.

[Chump Bailey]

Quote

 

CBS Sports offered some high praise for the lineman, after Zavala's solid week of practice at the Shrine Bowl. 

"Functional strength is equally as important as weight room strength. And in some cases, the former is more important. Zavala was a difficult matchup for interior defensive linemen during 1-on-1s. I thought his ability to effectively strike and steer DL was the best of all the offensive linemen this week."

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/lions-chandler-zavala-scouting-report

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

It feels like a mistake and as a result, would probably be correct.....(yup, that's the Snyder factor still in play in my head)

 

He wouldn't be my first choice, but I don't think you can ever call getting a great player with a draft pick a mistake.  If you pick an All Pro with a mid first round pick, no matter which of the 22 positions he plays, that's a great pick.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Darnell is probably more of a RT, too. The only guy in this class who is a pure LT is Paris Johnson, imo. Anton Harrison probably slots in there as well.

 

Dawand & Darnell are probably more RT that maybe could play LT. 

 

I feel like a tackle is a tackle at this point.  Shotgun formations + no fullbacks + tight ends who move into the slot a lot of the time makes it so the strength of your formation is really easy to flip, and the QB's drop is different than it used to be with the long behind center drops where their back was turned to the left for several steps.  Plus defenses move their best edges around throughout the game.  You've got to be able to play on an island against elite rushers at both tackle spots now.

 

I think you just play the tackle where you have an opening.  Orlando Brown flipping from RT to LT when he went from Baltimore to KC is a good example of the versatility expected of top tackles at the NFL level.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to draft Darnell or Dawand, thinking I can play them on the left when Leno moves on.  But for now, what I would probably do is get one of them and add them to the mix with my best OLs and kind of shake out where each play in camp.  If that means Wylie at RT and Dawand at LT and Cosmi moving inside to LG and Leno at LT and Gates at OC, then that looks really good to me.  Or flip the guards around if needed.  Or if it means Darnell at LG, Leno LT, Cosmi RG, and Wylie RT, then that looks good too.  The only extra versatility Darnell has over Dawand is that he can play guard, but I prefer Dawand over Darnell because I think he's a super high upside tackle.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

I feel like a tackle is a tackle at this point.  Shotgun formations + no fullbacks + tight ends who move into the slot a lot of the time makes it so the strength of your formation is really easy to flip, and the QB's drop is different than it used to be with the long behind center drops where their back was turned to the left for several steps.  Plus defenses move their best edges around throughout the game.  You've got to be able to play on an island against elite rushers at both tackle spots now.

 

I think you just play the tackle where you have an opening.  Orlando Brown flipping from RT to LT when he went from Baltimore to KC is a good example of the versatility expected of top tackles at the NFL level.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to draft Darnell or Dawand, thinking I can play them on the left when Leno moves on.  But for now, what I would probably do is get one of them and add them to the mix with my best OLs and kind of shake out where each play in camp.  If that means Wylie at RT and Dawand at LT and Cosmi moving inside to LG and Leno at LT and Gates at OC, then that looks really good to me.  Or flip the guards around if needed.  Or if it means Darnell at LG, Leno LT, Cosmi RG, and Wylie RT, then that looks good too.  The only extra versatility Darnell has over Dawand is that he can play guard, but I prefer Dawand over Darnell because I think he's a super high upside tackle.

 

I don't agree.

 

I think they can be. 1) flipping sides is tougher than you seem to think it is. 

 

2) Left tackles are generally guys with higher potential because they make more money.

[Chump Bailey]

OG/OT Eric Abojei Wyoming looks like a possible decent late-round dart throw to me. 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Also could see a Gibbs, Gibson & Robinson Law Firm.

 

This would be really exciting to me.  I still think there is a world where Gibbs ends up being better than Bijan Robinson in the NFL.  Talk about adding some juice to our backfield, and giving Sam Howell an elite weapon to check/hand off to would make the game easier for him.

 

I think Gibbs has an honest case for being the fourth best offensive player in the class after Young/Stroud/Robinson.

 

But I also don't know how we get into a draft range for him that makes sense.  I think he goes early 20s so that probably means we need to trade back from 16 rather than up from 47 in order to get there.  There's a tackle cliff in this class that I would be nervous to test.  At the end of the day, I'm not drafting Broderick Jones or O'Cyrus Torrence in the first round.  So it's kind of like Dawand Jones/Peter Skoronski/Darnell Wright/Anton Harrison or bust for me.  And then after them, I think the quality drops off so precipitously that you're not getting a strong bet for future starting tackle from the class, and not a lot of quality fliers to take out either.  Pretty much just Bergeron and Wanya Morris on that front.

 

If I were in charge, we'd be picking Dawand Jones at 16 and then I would call it a day.  47 comes up and Cody Mauch or O'Cyrus Torrence are there and I'm interested, but after them, Olu is the only OL left in the class I'd target, and I would do so in like the fourth round for him.

[Warhead36]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

1A (Top 12 pick IMO)

Paris Johnson.

 

1B (Ist round 15-25)

Dawand Jones

Anton Harrison

Darnell Wright

Broderick Jones

Yeah this is what I'm thinking as well.

 

So lets say we have 1st round grades on all these guys. If there is only one left at 16(no chance Johnson will but the other four its possible), I think we take them. If lets say 2-3 are left, we might try to trade down and still snag one that's left(would be risky though).

 

Of those four in 1B I think Harrison has the best upside and would be my pick. After that I'm really not sure at all and would honestly probably prefer CB unless all the top 1st round graded ones were also taken.

 

We're just in a weird spot at 16. Really unfortunate we won that meaningless finale.

[Going Commando]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't agree.

 

I think they can be. 1) flipping sides is tougher than you seem to think it is. 

 

2) Left tackles are generally guys with higher potential because they make more money.

 

I think it's tough on the player to have to reverse their footwork so I wouldn't flip my tackles outside of training camp except when injuries create emergencies.  But I wouldn't hesitate to draft a college RT and play him at LT if that's where my opening is that involves the least amount of disruption to the guys I already have on my line.

 

My point is that the role of the modern LT and RT are just mirror images flipped from each other.  They are both playing the same way, just with flipped footwork, and both are going to need to be able to play on an island in pass pro.

 

Left tackles definitely make more money on average, and I think that's a reflection of the greater prestige the position has left over from the pre-shotgun spread era of football.  The best tackles want to play LT and tend to play there, so they make more money for the position.  The market inefficiency is to the point where a really savvy and ruthless team might actually take advantage of this (Philly) and play their best tackle at RT so they can pay him less than he'd get on the open market as a LT.  It's worked for them: there is no world where Laremy Tunsil is even close to being as good as Lane Johnson, but the difference in their salary is huge.  Tunsil is half as good as him and makes almost twice as much.

That's actually why I would draft Dawand Jones as a RT and play him there and move my vets around him, knowing that it's going to save me money second contract time if Dawand works out.

[Going Commando]

23 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We're just in a weird spot at 16. Really unfortunate we won that meaningless finale.

 

I don't know if I agree with this.  I think we're in the natural range for the OTs and corners and Mayer.  Sure it would be nice to be able to trade down from a higher slot, but someone good is going to be there at 16.

[Warhead36]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I don't know if I agree with this.  I think we're in the natural range for the OTs and corners and Mayer.  Sure it would be nice to be able to trade down from a higher slot, but someone good is going to be there at 16.

The nightmare scenario would be all the good CBs and OTs taken which I do think is possible with how weak the WRs are and how nobody takes RBs anymore.

 

 

[KDawg]

I'm still not sold that I'd take a CB not named Spoon or Gonzo at 16. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, KDawg said:

I'm still not sold that I'd take a CB not named Spoon or Gonzo at 16. 

I'm a big JPJ fan and I've warmed up to Ringo only because I do trust our coaches ability to develop raw DBs. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I'm a big JPJ fan and I've warmed up to Ringo only because I do trust our coaches ability to develop raw DBs. 

I like both of those guys in different ways. But I think there will be better players.

 

I think Branch would help us more than either of them, for instance.

 

I think Jack Campbell is a better player than both (but 16 is too early for him as well) and he'd be a bigger help to our D. 

 

I think Deonte Banks is on a similar level to Ringo.

 

I think Cam Smith is as well but I hear something about character issues with him?

 

I think there will be multiple edges better.

 

I think Double A (Edge/DT) is better. 

 

Porter I could see a case for as his only real weakness is his hands, which doesn't negate how good he is. 

 

Ringo is real raw. 

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

Darnell is probably more of a RT, too. The only guy in this class who is a pure LT is Paris Johnson, imo. Anton Harrison probably slots in there as well.

 

Dawand & Darnell are probably more RT that maybe could play LT. 

Dawg, if we could land Harrison I'd be thrilled too.  I like Harrison and Darnell both.  I think in time, Darnell could play both in a year or two.  I hope we can land one of the two.  I don't think we have a shot at Paris unless we trade up and I don't want us to do that.  If trade, I would we rather trade down and get some extra picks.