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14 minutes ago, Redwards said:

This season will tell us all we need to know on that front.


This year should definitely be a referendum on Ron. 
 

I think it’s entirely possible, that they could succeed. I’m not sure how probable.

 

Ron has been valuable to this franchise but I just wish there was a better fit for him in it.

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You need the ability to score quickly and score often. Is it nice to play keep away ball control? Of course it is. It's what got us a win against Brady and the Bucs last year, that insane 10+ minute drive in the 4th. But it simply isn't sustainable drive by drive, game by game. Building your offense with that as your primary objective is dumb. You're intentionally limiting your ceiling. We almost blew the Raiders and Seahawks games because, while we controlled the ball, we simply didn't score points often enough. We had huge time of possession against the Packers but again, we didn't score, while the Pack despite not having that much ToP scored often enough.

 

There is a reason why the teams that win Super Bowls are pretty much always led by QBs that command offenses that can make big plays and score really fast. Look at how the Rams came back in the Super Bowl last year. Or when the Chiefs were down 10 late in the 4th two years before that. There are always exceptions you can point to in every instance, but you don't build your team trying to be an exception. 

 

Thankfully I think Rivera actually does realize this, which is why he went out to trade for Wentz, who even with all his flaws is/was still among the best deep ball passers in the league. And then went and drafted a lightning quick WR in the 1st. I don't think he's this super conservative defensive minded coach everyone thinks he is, he's just been forced to approach that strategy come regular season because that's what's been our best chance to win due to our personnel deficiencies at QB and WR.

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2 minutes ago, Die Hard said:


This year should definitely be a referendum on Ron. 
 

I think it’s entirely possible, that they could succeed. I’m not sure how probable.

 

Ron has been valuable to this franchise but I just wish there was a better fit for him in it.

 

Here's the issue... and it's a glaring one...

 

It can't be a referendum on Ron. Why? Because if we have another meh year amid the scandals and off the field stuff as well, who in their right mind would take a job that would can the only person that is keeping fans engaged?

 

There is no one to take his place unless we somehow hypnotize a candidate.

 

This is not an attractive job.

 

Yes, there are 32 NFL Head coaching positions, so they are all coveted. But most guys want to take their first shot, or last chance, somewhere they have a chance at succeeding. They'd likely rather be assistants elsewhere.

 

And if Ron has a good year... why replace him?

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16 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

SD’s quick, short choppy stepping thru the first line of defense, then bouncin outside and showin just how fast the big guy could move.  
BTW…he also beat out a highly touted runner most thought would win the starting job…skip hicks

 

i find the comp of Robinson to Davis to be eerily close.  Yay for us if that’s the case 

Think he can beat out Gibson?

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Here's the issue... and it's a glaring one...

 

It can't be a referendum on Ron. Why? Because if we have another meh year amid the scandals and off the field stuff as well, who in their right mind would take a job that would can the only person that is keeping fans engaged?

 

There is no one to take his place unless we somehow hypnotize a candidate.

 

This is not an attractive job.

 

Yes, there are 32 NFL Head coaching positions, so they are all coveted. But most guys want to take their first shot, or last chance, somewhere they have a chance at succeeding. They'd likely rather be assistants elsewhere.

 

And if Ron has a good year... why replace him?


You’re not replacing Ron following a winning campaign. 
 

But if this season falls apart… you don’t reward him with a shiny new Ferrari (drafting a franchise QB). That comes with another 2-3 extension.
 

That’s a privilege for the next new HC. That’s a carrot…. plus a good roster, culture and cap situation.

 

And I’m not saying the next coach will be reputable and exciting. Knowing Snyder, it’s going to be a puppet.

 


 


 

 

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14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

And if Ron has a good year... why replace him?

 

I'd add as we know Dan is probably the least respected and most hated figure in the NFL.    Love or not love Ron as a coach (I am a fan myself), no one can argue that Ron isn't one of the most likeable and respected coaches in the NFL.  Even Kyle Shanahan who hated Dan-Bruce like poison and was willing to share his takes about it -- backed off when Ron came here, talked about how he exudes class and heck even made a trade with us.

 

If Dan fires Ron before his contract is up.  It would raise the dumpster fire status of working here IMO to new lows we've not even experienced yet IMO.  I recall eons ago we shrugged off that Spags would rather return to the Giants as an assistant then be a HC here, and we ended up with Zorn.  I think we'd likely end up with a rerrun.  At a minimum I think no attractive head coaching prospect with multiple opportunities would come here.  But I could see a retread guy who isn't in demand like Marvin Lewis or some wild leap type of promotion for a coordinator type ala Zorn.

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3 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

plus a good roster, culture and cap situation.

 

 

I'm sorry... good... what? Does that say culture? Maybe in the locker room. But the franchise itself is a snake pit. 

 

And if we have a good roster, why get rid of Ron? It doesn't make sense.

 

The next step is replacing the coordinators. Not Rivera. Ron will get a franchise QB if Wentz isn't the guy. I fully believe that. He is going to be here for at least another 3 years unless he quits or has a total melt down or things go horribly wrong.

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Just read the most recent Standig article in the Athletic and there was a note I found very interesting at the bottom. According to Standig Gibson has lost 10 pounds this offseason as part of his offseason training. Maybe im reading too much into it but this screams to me they want Gibson in more of a change of pace type role than an every down bruiser. 

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12 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Just read the most recent Standig article in the Athletic and there was a note I found very interesting at the bottom. According to Standig Gibson has lost 10 pounds this offseason as part of his offseason training. Maybe im reading too much into it but this screams to me they want Gibson in more of a change of pace type role than an every down bruiser. 

 

Which is what Gibson should have been from the beginning IMO. He was never suited to being an every down bell cow RB. But for some reason this coaching staff insisted on trying to fit a college WR who also ran the ball sometimes into that role. I thought it was dumb at the time and still think it is.

 

That's something that always drives me up the wall with any coaching staff...taking a player who's really good at something and trying to force him to be something else. Makes no sense.

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2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Which is what Gibson should have been from the beginning IMO. He was never suited to being an every down bell cow RB. But for some reason this coaching staff insisted on trying to fit a college WR who also ran the ball sometimes into that role. I thought it was dumb at the time and still think it is.

 

That's something that always drives me up the wall with any coaching staff...taking a player who's really good at something and trying to force him to be something else. Makes no sense.

 

He was drafted to be a quick twitch RB/WR that can make big plays with his speed/CoD.

 

He turned into a poor man's Stephen Davis.

 

Now that we have Robinson he goes back to the Deebo role (Read: for those of you who get up in arms, I'm not saying he IS Deebo... just the role of Deebo).

 

The positive is though that he now has years of NFL RB experience to go with receiver experience.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Gibson getting involved a touch in the return game.

 

Wow, can you imagine a multi faceted Gibson making plays? Can't wait for that.

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25 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Just read the most recent Standig article in the Athletic and there was a note I found very interesting at the bottom. According to Standig Gibson has lost 10 pounds this offseason as part of his offseason training. Maybe im reading too much into it but this screams to me they want Gibson in more of a change of pace type role than an every down bruiser. 

Wow.... I hope that helps him out on the field but idk abut that....

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4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

He was drafted to be a quick twitch RB/WR that can make big plays with his speed/CoD.

 

He turned into a poor man's Stephen Davis.

 

Now that we have Robinson he goes back to the Deebo role (Read: for those of you who get up in arms, I'm not saying he IS Deebo... just the role of Deebo).

 

The positive is though that he now has years of NFL RB experience to go with receiver experience.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Gibson getting involved a touch in the return game.

 

Wow, can you imagine a multi faceted Gibson making plays? Can't wait for that.

 

Yeah definitely. I'm also glad they finally did this sooner rather than later. I'm not sure how much longer Gibson would have lasted as an every down between the tackles rusher before he started really getting worn down to the point where he wasn't very useful. Hopefully the tread is still somewhat fresh and they'll utilize him in a way that preserves him and plays to his strengths.

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Just use Gibby and Jr to re-create Kamara and Ingram

 

Jr does the heavy lifting to keep Gibby clean, allowing him to be fresh and better utilized in a wider variety of plays. Its what Gibby was built for. Maximize that dude.

 

Increases the quality of plays Gibby sees and increases how dangerous he can be.

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48 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Wow.... I hope that helps him out on the field but idk abut that....


He’s not a bellcow or early down banger, his feet were falling apart underneath him with all those carries at a weight he’d never played at before. It’s not just a commentary on the Robinson draft pick imo—although he will be a benefit to us and himself a beneficiary of this change—more so just an acknowledgement of how Gibson should be best and most effectively used. Net positive imo. 

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15 minutes ago, Conn said:


He’s not a bellcow or early down banger, his feet were falling apart underneath him with all those carries at a weight he’d never played at before. It’s not just a commentary on the Robinson draft pick imo—although he will be a benefit to us and himself a beneficiary of this change—more so just an acknowledgement of how Gibson should be best and most effectively used. Net positive imo. 

Im fine with changing his usage Im 100% on board with keeping him fresh.  I just think that if he is lighter he may not be able to absorb contact as well so that could cause another issue.  I do wish they used him more in the passing game.  I thought we would have seen more of that by now.  Maybe this is the year they use him to full potential im just not so sure that dropping 10 lbs was necessary.  He has such a smooth stride so maybe we will be a bit faster.

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This Robinson pick is an extra secret blessing in disguise if it means we get a slimmed down Gibson with even more juice.  This is why when Mayhew said "we know our needs better then others", it's relevant.  Nobody knew that Gibson is down to 210 except them.

 

36 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Im fine with changing his usage Im 100% on board with keeping him fresh.  I just think that if he is lighter he may not be able to absorb contact as well so that could cause another issue.  I do wish they used him more in the passing game.  I thought we would have seen more of that by now.  Maybe this is the year they use him to full potential im just not so sure that dropping 10 lbs was necessary.  He has such a smooth stride so maybe we will be a bit faster.

 

It should help his first step acceleration, which matters more for a RB than long speed.  Brian Robinson has enough long speed to hit home runs, but he needs a few more strides to get there than you want.  Gibson's college film (at 230lbs) show's first step juice that's nutty.  Reducing tough runs for Gibson when he's at 210 should show us some more of that sudden speed that makes all pursuit defenders angles turn from "OK to poor". 

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd add as we know Dan is probably the least respected and most hated figure in the NFL.    Love or not love Ron as a coach (I am a fan myself), no one can argue that Ron isn't one of the most likeable and respected coaches in the NFL.  Even Kyle Shanahan who hated Dan-Bruce like poison and was willing to share his takes about it -- backed off when Ron came here, talked about how he exudes class and heck even made a trade with us.

 

If Dan fires Ron before his contract is up.  It would raise the dumpster fire status of working here IMO to new lows we've not even experienced yet IMO.  I recall eons ago we shrugged off that Spags would rather return to the Giants as an assistant then be a HC here, and we ended up with Zorn.  I think we'd likely end up with a rerrun.  At a minimum I think no attractive head coaching prospect with multiple opportunities would come here.  But I could see a retread guy who isn't in demand like Marvin Lewis or some wild leap type of promotion for a coordinator type ala Zorn.

I definitely agree with everything you said.  In spades.

 

However...IF Ron finishes out his contract with this team taking no real leap forwards and continuing to spin their wheels, you cannot retain him simply because he's respected and a good guy.  Or because the prospect of a (likely) lesser coach looms.  That is a one-way ticket to losing your locker room.  You enter Marvin Lewis territory.  

 

Personally, if I have a coach who has been given more than enough rope to hang himself, and he proves he isn't the answer, there's absolutely no way in Hades I'm keeping him around just because he's respected and I probably can't get anyone better.  There's a million ex-coaches who were well-respected, classy men.  But you have to send a message to your players (and the rest of your organization) that you are here TO WIN, and that absolutely nothing else is acceptable.  We're not here to collect Division titles and be happy with a playoff win here and there.  That's a loser's mentality.  If you don't make that crystal clear to everyone, you lose all their respect and they simply begin working for a paycheck.  

 

I'm not a believer in Ron the coach.  At all.  Not even a little bit. Not when it comes to them being able to deliver a consistent winner that includes a SB winner.   I have zero faith in him or his FO to make this team into a SB winner.  I'm not after a playoff appearance, Marvin Lewis Cincinnati type team.  I'm after a coach and FO that win it all.  That's all that counts, no matter how many years of losing a fanbase has suffered through.  

 

However, there's obviously a possibility that Ron proves me wrong (and any true fan would LOVE to be proven wrong about their doubts) and we never have to worry about who the next crappy HC hire will be.  All the fans are sick of that scenario, for sure.  Here's hoping Ron and his FO pull through.  

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47 minutes ago, Redwards said:

 That is a one-way ticket to losing your locker room.  You enter Marvin Lewis territory.  

 

 

Sure you can. If you put a little market research in and you find out no one else wants the job... You can sure as hell stick to Ron.

 

Otherwise, ironically, you wind up with Marvis Lewis. 

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8 hours ago, Die Hard said:

 

<snip>

 

Ron has been valuable to this franchise but I just wish there was a better fit for him in it.

 

Really well-put. Something just seems, askew?

He's either going to knock it out of the park or get knocked down a couple pegs in the league.

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4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Sure you can. If you put a little market research in and you find out no one else wants the job... You can sure as hell stick to Ron.

 

Otherwise, ironically, you wind up with Marvis Lewis. 

If you end up in that scenario, and it's totally possible, then you're dead in the water either way.  What a wonderful predicament Danny Boy has created, no?

39 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Really well-put. Something just seems, askew?

He's either going to knock it out of the park or get knocked down a couple pegs in the league.

Upper management is the best fit for him.  Lord knows we could use the likes of Ron there.  He's a marginal head coach who'll reap marginal results when all is said and done.   But I do believe he could be a major asset in upper management, and I'd much rather Ron be the one looking for the next head coach than Danny Boy.  

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16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

This is probably the most talented and exciting offensive roster the team has fielded in a long time. The skill positions are good and deep - provided Thomas comes back at full strength and quickly.

 

All about injuries, play calling and QB play now. 

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4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My bold prediction (sure to go wrong) is Robinson ends up with more carries than Gibson this year.  

 

They have similar touches, but Gibby is used a lor more in the passing game.  


I agree. 

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