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Welcome To The Washington Commanders Jahan Dotson WR Penn State


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47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The play below is a very Dotson type of move, he gets open quickly underneath.


That was the point I highlighted in the draft thread a week or so back when there was a Rivera interview with Logan Paulson posted. Rivera explained that a key attribute he looked for in a receiver was how the receiver gave almost not signal to the DB as to their next move. Then bang, open. He said so many receivers telegraph their move with a tell/regular signal which enables the DB to preempt the route.

 

That was when I felt we really were in on Dotson. He’s great at that.

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3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I think my favorite thing so far is seeing people call Dotson slow and Olave fast. 4.43 vs. 4.39.

 

Yikes. 

 

I mean I get it to some degree, as the expectations for both were quite different. Dotson was often described as a speedster who beat people easily because he was just faster than most others. Olave wasn't really perceived as a guy that dominates primarily via speed but via route running. Disregarding how accurate that characterization is, it still creates expectations. It's also now with all those Desean Jackson comps that get thrown around for Dotson - don't really think that's fair.

Oh and Olave had a ridiculous 10 yards split of 1.45 (0.998 percentile) vs 1.56 for Dotson (0.802 percentile). That's probably more indicative of relevant NFL speed than their 40 times.

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4 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

I mean I get it to some degree, as the expectations for both were quite different. Dotson was often described as a speedster who beat people easily because he was just faster than most others. Olave wasn't really perceived as a guy that dominates primarily via speed but via route running. Disregarding how accurate that characterization is, it still creates expectations. It's also now with all those Desean Jackson comps that get thrown around for Dotson - don't really think that's fair.

Oh and Olave had a ridiculous 10 yards split of 1.45 (0.998 percentile) vs 1.56 for Dotson (0.802 percentile). That's probably more indicative of relevant NFL speed than their 40 times.

 

Sure, but then you watch the film and you see Dotson is explosive in and out of breaks and much more quick twitch than Olave.

 

Speed is mostly an on-field illusion. You see it sometimes in guys breaking away, but football generally doesn't happen quite like that. It's mostly a game played in a small box where guys need to change directions quickly. That is also something Dotson is better at than Olave. 

 

And the splits indicate to me my assessment is accurate. Dotson starts much faster and is more quick twitch, Olave needs time to get the engine running. 

Edited by KDawg
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3 minutes ago, Panninho said:

Oh and Olave had a ridiculous 10 yards split of 1.45 (0.998 percentile) vs 1.56 for Dotson (0.802 percentile). That's probably more indicative of relevant NFL speed than their 40 times.

I’ve heard this, but why?

 

For a WR, wouldn’t we be more concerned with long speed? Once they get off the line it’s about how they accelerate to top speed and run by people. A ridiculous 10 yard split seems like they have a really nice start, from a 3 point stance on the ground, like a track athlete.

 

I think 3 cone is the best metric for WR and pretty much every position. Dotson didn’t perform well on that, though.

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2 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

I’ve heard this, but why?

 

For a WR, wouldn’t we be more concerned with long speed? Once they get off the line it’s about how they accelerate to top speed and run by people. A ridiculous 10 yard split seems like they have a really nice start, from a 3 point stance on the ground, like a track athlete.

 

I think 3 cone is the best metric for WR and pretty much every position. Dotson didn’t perform well on that, though.

I don't know that I know what I'm talking about, but a ton of WR routes seem to emphasize quickness and change of direction which I would think would relate to short speed. I'm thinking of slants, curls, and things like that. Long speed might help on post routes and certainly on bombs, but how many "shots" a game to receivers really take. How many times do you ask them to blow by all the defenders and just outrace them?

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6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Sure, but then you watch the film and you see Dotson is explosive in and out of breaks and much more quick twitch than Olave.

 

Speed is mostly an on-field illusion. You see it sometimes in guys breaking away, but football generally doesn't happen quite like that. It's mostly a game played in a small box where guys need to change directions quickly. That is also something Dotson is better at than Olave. 

 

And the splits indicate to me my assessment is accurate. Dotson starts much faster and is more quick twitch, Olave needs time to get the engine running. 

The splits indicate the exact opposite of what you are saying though. Olave starts much faster as he needs only 1.45s to cover the first 10 yards (which is basically historic), whereas Dotson needs 1.54s which is good but not great. If it indicates anything, then probably that Dotson's top speed might be faster because they end up with a 0.04 difference after 40 yards even though the difference after 10 yards is almost 0.1

 

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4 minutes ago, Panninho said:

The splits indicate the exact opposite of what you are saying though. Olave starts much faster as he needs only 1.45s to cover the first 10 yards (which is basically historic), whereas Dotson needs 1.54s which is good but not great. If it indicates anything, then probably that Dotson's top speed might be faster because they end up with a 0.04 difference after 40 yards even though the difference after 10 yards is almost 0.1

 

 

Those were for first ten? I thought it was a rolling 10. 

 

Fair.

 

Point still stands, though. The film shows Dotson as more quick twitch. But the shorts show Olave. I stand corrected on that point.

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I'm not thrilled about Dotson's height, but I know nothing else about him compared to other receivers. As long as Scott Turner doesn't have an obsession with throwing fades in the endzone like previous playcallers, that's good enough for me.

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Those were for first ten? I thought it was a rolling 10. 

 

Fair.

 

Point still stands, though. The film shows Dotson as more quick twitch. But the shorts show Olave. I stand corrected on that point.

Yeah I think the speed debate between Dotson and Olave in general doesn't make a lot of sense. Neither of them are speedster like Jameson Williams who just blaze by everyone else. But both of them have decent speed and run really good routes.

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I always find it interesting when a guy's football speed on the field looks different than his timed speed in shorts. To me when I watch Dotson on the field, he looks at least as fast as Olave. His play speed is really fast, even though he timed a little slower in the 40. Sometimes you see the opposite where a guy runs really fast in shorts but it doesn't necessarily show up that way on the field.

 

Olave vs press is an odd one for me. I know statistically he's apparently very good vs press, but when I watch him (with my eye, which is way less trained than actual scouts or coaches, so take it with a grain of salt) he looks like he's not that great at it, mostly because he doesn't really have a lot of explosion or suddenness in his movements. But I guess he makes up for it with good hand fighting technique, etc.

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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Glad you've climbed down off that ledge you were on.

I never had an issue with Dotson as a player. I actually really liked him, he was my 3rd favorite receiver in the draft after Olave and Williams.

 

My issue was passing up on potential blue chippers like Hamilton and Williams and not playing the draft value game as well as some other teams. I still think our original plan was Olave/Williams/Hamilton at 16 and we made a bit of a panic move but it worked out because we still got a good player.

 

But at least we didn't take a G or something. Then I'd be irate.

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I know people referenced Chris Collinsworth with PFF stating that Dotson "Will catch 100 balls in this league"... but I actually think the full quote is more telling.

Skip to 19:00 ....

"I think jahan dotson is one of the smartest receivers that i've seen in a while...He gets what the quarterback is seeing and how they get into the holes and and make easy throws hot reads he gets his head around"

 

 

 

So lets recap a bit from 30k feet.

If you give me a player in any professional league that has a bunch of good, but not elite traits across the board. But the thing he is elite at are

1) The most important/fundamental skill for that position/sport (For WR its Hands)

2) In game IQ/play speed/spatial awareness.

 

I have to bet on him. We will desperately need a do-it-all WR in 2023 when Terrys extension kicks in and Samuels is undoubtedly cut with his cap hit.

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I do notice that his teammates and coaches speak about him much like Terry's did when he was drafted. Which I bet is a big part of what they like about him. If we can get a guy with Terrys mindset on the field at any position I call it a win. 

 

That's me trying to sell myself. I was not a huge fan of the pick initially, but I rarely ever am. 

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Having football IQ and instincts is extremely important. For years we've taken guys with talent but couldn't actually play the game. They didn't have a feel or real grasp of the game and it was obvious. 

 

Some people say you can teach it/learn it but I'm not so sure. Some things are just innate. And I'll take the guy with good talent but elite instincts/IQ/feel for the game then elite talent but mediocre to know mental game. 

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From https://markbullock.substack.com/p/what-jahan-dotson-brings-to-the-washington?s=r

 

What WR Jahan Dotson brings to the Washington Commanders

Taking a closer look at the skill set of the Commanders first-round pick

 

The Washington Commanders drafted Penn State wide receiver Jahan Dotson in the first-round of the NFL draft on Thursday night. The Commanders saw receiver Drake London drafted a few picks before them by the Falcons, and then Garrett Wilson drafted by the Jets at 10. So, they responded with a smart decision to trade back from the 11th pick and restock on draft picks after losing picks in the Carson Wentz trade. They traded back with the Saints, falling back to the 16th pick and adding a third and fourth-round pick in return. The Saints then drafted Chris Olave, a reported target for Washington and the Lions then traded for the 12th pick to take Jameson Williams.

That left Washington at 16 with the last receiver it had with a first-round grade in Dotson. Dotson is slightly smaller than the other receivers taken in the first, measuring at 5-foot-11, 178 pounds. With that slighter frame, he’s not the big-bodied possession receiver some were looking for, but he does fit a similar profile to Chris Olave as a deep threat that can play both the Z receiver and slot receiver positions. 

When watching Dotson, his speed does stand out. He routinely ran deeper routes and burned corners while doing so.

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Here’s two plays from Dotson’s game against Wisconsin this past season. On the first play of the clip, Dotson aligns way outside the numbers almost on the sideline. This helps isolate him against the corner on the outside. Dotson works at a controlled pace while selling a go route down the sideline. Once he gets the corner to commit to the go route by opening his hips to the sideline, Dotson cuts inside and turns on the jets. He flys by the corner but is unfortunately overthrown. On the second play of the clip, Dotson aligns inside the numbers and faces press coverage. Off the snap, he takes a hop step to gather himself while selling a jab to an outside release. The corner opens his hips outside in response and Dotson takes his free release inside as he bursts by the corner. Once again Dotson runs away from the coverage but the quarterback misses the throw.

Now Dotson isn’t only a speedster. He’s a nice route runner that understands how he can use his speed and vertical threat to set up other routes and create separation underneath.

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On this play, Dotson aligns outside the numbers but then motions in towards the hash marks. As the ball is snapped, the corner in coverage is playing with heavy outside leverage thanks to the motion. That makes things hard for Dotson, who wants to run an out route but is working against a corner with leverage advantage. He knows he has to take away that leverage advantage somehow, so Dotson starts his route by widening his angle and forcing the corner to widen with him. Receivers typically do this when they want to create space inside for a post route. Dotson eats up the cushion between himself and the corner quickly and that makes the corner panic into a mistake. The corner knows the angle suggests Dotson is creating space to work inside, so he hurriedly opens his hips inside to be able to turn and run with Dotson. That gives Dotson the leverage advantage as he breaks off his route to the sideline whilst the corner is forced to do a full speed turn.

Dotson has a few different tricks up his sleeve when it comes to route running too.

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This time, Dotson aligns to the left of the formation just inside the numbers and runs a dig route. His corner is playing with inside leverage this time, which should give the defender an advantage when covering a dig route. However, Dotson gets rid of that leverage advantage with his route running. He releases inside and then works vertically. Just as he gets on the toes of the defender, he uses a nice dead leg move to sell a break outside or possibly a fade route. That gets the corner to open his hips to the sidelines and allows Dotson free access to cut back inside and over the middle.

On top of his deep threat and route running, Dotson has good hands. Many draft analysts have said he has the safest hands in this draft class and his catching ability does stand out when watching him. ...

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40 minutes ago, Panninho said:

The splits indicate the exact opposite of what you are saying though. Olave starts much faster as he needs only 1.45s to cover the first 10 yards (which is basically historic), whereas Dotson needs 1.54s which is good but not great. If it indicates anything, then probably that Dotson's top speed might be faster because they end up with a 0.04 difference after 40 yards even though the difference after 10 yards is almost 0.1

 

A 10 yard sprint is not quick twitch.  A 10 yard sprint is straight line acceleration.  

 

What quick twitch is, and what Dotson supposedly has, is the 2-3 yard quick lateral and directional acceleration. The quick moves that in traffic, or immediately after catch allow him to jump one way or the other much faster than the other guy.  Absolutely nobody is getting a free 5 yard, much less 10 yard straight line run after catching a ball in the NFL, and if he is then I dont care if he runs it in 1.45 or 1.7.  Twitch also isnt moving forwards, any defender with the right speed can track a guy whos running straight in the direction... that hes running.  Its the ability to change direction(which is what actually gets separation), go side to side, and move at odd/different angles within a moment.  

 

Im not saying the guy will be any good or not, but lets be clear about what twitch is(or you can call it agility), what speed is, and what acceleration is.  

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25 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

His nfl.com analysis listed this as one of his strengths:

 

  • Phone booth wiggle after the catch.

I have no idea what that means, but "phone booth wiggle" made me giggle.

 

:ols:

 

I think it generally means short area agility and lateral quickness when in traffic.

 

That or something that really shouldn't be on a supposedly family friendly site like nfl.com

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29 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

His nfl.com analysis listed this as one of his strengths:

 

  • Phone booth wiggle after the catch.

I have no idea what that means, but "phone booth wiggle" made me giggle.

 

I got the reference since I grew up with phone booths. You missed out on your teenage years if you didn't do the phone booth wiggle while you were in one one with someone. ;)

Okay, serious now, getting out of tight spaces. 

 

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