88Comrade2000 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, abdcskins said: No easy answers, but I'd like to avoid a war if possible. In general I prefer a laiseez-faire approach to things, but unfortunately the US is expected to always patrol foreign issues. Sucks that Putin doesn't recognize Ukraine's independence. I honestly don't see him invading though, he just wants to support these separatist regions to boost this so-called Russian pride and patriotism. Wrong. Putin wants to restore the old Soviet Union. His goal to get all those former satellites under Russian domination. Some are are in NATO now. He wants them out. The only thing he knows he can’t get is the Eastern part of Germany. Edited February 22, 2022 by 88Comrade2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Sanction deez nuts, Putin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Almighty Buzz said: I don't remember what you in particular said but I remember I, and a decent portion of people on here, said Obama wasn't doing enough to stop Putin and it would just embolden him further down the road. And it looks like we were right. Whenever critiquing Obama's time in office, Crimea is always one of the first things I bring up. I do remember you bring it up often and thinking it was an unfair critique...or maybe it was just the frequency I had an issue with. I'm not sure, the bourbon makes thing hazy. But im sure I owe you an apology as you clearly were right. I still don't know what the correct thing to do is. You can cripple Russia's economy and make many many innocent people there suffer.....which ultimately I guess effects our economy because we are so reliant on their oil. Which may cause you a political problem.....political problem that turn into American citizen problems....it gets complicated fast and I dont even understand half of it. I'm not going to say what I wish we could do with our drone capabilities because I assume that would get me on a list some place. But I like to think I know our capabilities, and it upsets me that we haven't just ended this problem already. Edited February 22, 2022 by Llevron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 I think the answer was: sell a **** load of advanced military equipment to the Ukranians shortly after Crimea got invaded. It's a step that Russia can't really tell us not to take, and it would have changed the current situation from "Russia has 130,000 troops and will take Kyiv in 3 or 4 days" to "Russia has 130,000 troops and will probably win, but it's sort of in doubt and will be really bloody for the Russians." Problem is, and I'm not a military person, but you can't just ship weapons in and viola, instant upgrade. It take a long time to get people trained up and for the capabilities to be deployed and integrated into the larger network of defenses. So it wouldn't help to do it now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Man, there is so much at stake. It really seems our freedoms against the ropes. Do we even understand? Is this east versus west, or man against man? but can any nation stand alone? Who put the Bop in the bop, she bop, she bop? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I think the answer was: sell a **** load of advanced military equipment to the Ukranians shortly after Crimea got invaded. It's a step that Russia can't really tell us not to take, and it would have changed the current situation from "Russia has 130,000 troops and will take Kyiv in 3 or 4 days" to "Russia has 130,000 troops and will probably win, but it's sort of in doubt and will be really bloody for the Russians." Problem is, and I'm not a military person, but you can't just ship weapons in and viola, instant upgrade. It take a long time to get people trained up and for the capabilities to be deployed and integrated into the larger network of defenses. So it wouldn't help to do it now. I was proposing that we should have added Ukraine to NATO. Kept getting told it was impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 If the west just put troops in ukraine, I dont see how putin could do anything but back down. I think for the good of the world weve got to here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 12 minutes ago, dunfer said: If the west just put troops in ukraine, I dont see how putin could do anything but back down. I think for the good of the world weve got to here Freely admitting, I like the idea. But. While sending troops or some such might well cause him to stop and accept the two places he's successfully expanded into. It would likely stop the invasion of tanks and artillery and such. But it won't stop him. He'll just switch to "supporting separatists". There will be terrorism. Probably forcing the western government to become repressive. And so forth. Does it lead to a future, 30 years from now, where the US abandons them, and the terrorists take over? And if it does, then was it worth it? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Larry said: Freely admitting, I like the idea. But. While sending troops or some such might well cause him to stop and accept the two places he's successfully expanded into. It would likely stop the invasion of tanks and artillery and such. But it won't stop him. He'll just switch to "supporting separatists". There will be terrorism. Probably forcing the western government to become repressive. And so forth. Does it lead to a future, 30 years from now, where the US abandons them, and the terrorists take over? And if it does, then was it worth it? It shouldnt just be the US, but a world front.... and terrorism like youre talking about is more of a religious thing. I doubt any pro russians are doing anything middle east like for long. And we dont have to stay there....putin backs down and we get out, but well keep coming back if we have to. I mean life doesnt sound that awesome in either place (due to the decades of communism), but its free peoples being invaded. its poland 1939 Edited February 22, 2022 by dunfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: What the actual ramifications of these sanctions? Can we cripple Putin to the point he actually stops? Not without crippling most of Europe. China is the real winner here. 9 minutes ago, dunfer said: It shouldnt just be the US, but a world front.. Barely got Germany to agreeing to halt the gas line…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Not without crippling most of Europe. China is the real winner here. Barely got Germany to agreeing to halt the gas line…. they did though. any nato country putting troops in ukraine stops this immediately i think. why nobody does is confusing. Dont want to piss off the guy with the gdp of texas thats invading a sovereign country? doesnt make sense Edited February 22, 2022 by dunfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dunfer said: they did though. any nato country putting troops in ukraine stops this immediately i think. why nobody does is confusing. Dont want to piss off the guy with the gdp of texas thats invading a sovereign country? doesnt make sense Russia has the gdp of Texas, but that gdp is made up primarily from an important resource the rest of the world relies on to make their gdp. and despite their gdp, their military is formidable abs their military technology rivals US. I don’t think setting the stage for direct confrontation with Russia is in the US interest. Russia is desperate to remain a superpower. We aren’t. Edited February 23, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: He has the gdp of Texas, but that gdp is made up primarily from an important resource the rest of the world relies on to make the gdp. and despite their gdp, their military is formidable abs their military technology rivals US. so another war (thats what this is for ukraine) for oil. Sorry ukraine, the world could stop it...but gas prices Russia wouldnt stand a chance against the US military Edited February 23, 2022 by dunfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Anyone know if the Russkies deployed the T14 tank in Ukraine yet? Me: "I'm curious to see some tank battles." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said: Anyone know if the Russkies deployed the T14 tank in Ukraine yet? Me: "I'm curious to see some tank battles." Me, showing my age: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said: Anyone know if the Russkies deployed the T14 tank in Ukraine yet? Me: "I'm curious to see some tank battles." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 you guys are sad. Memes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline Germany is halting the controversial Nord Stream 2 pipeline in light of Russia’s incursion into Ukraine, Chancellor Olaf Scholz said. The undersea pipeline, meant to ferry natural gas directly from Russia to northern Germany, is owned by a subsidiary of Russia’s state-owned Gazprom. Berlin has previously been reluctant to impose sanctions that would affect Nord Stream 2. But at a press conference Tuesday, Scholz said that “the situation today is fundamentally different and therefore, in light of recent events, we must also reassess this situation … also with regard to Nord Stream 2.” He said he had asked the German economy ministry to withdraw a binding opinion from October last year that stated the pipeline posed no security-of-supply threats. “This sounds technical, but it is the necessary administrative step so that no certification of the pipeline can now take place,” Scholz added. “And without this certification, Nord Stream 2 cannot go into operation.” Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 1 hour ago, dunfer said: they did though. any nato country putting troops in ukraine stops this immediately i think. why nobody does is confusing. Dont want to piss off the guy with the gdp of texas thats invading a sovereign country? doesnt make sense Because the I think part is what everybody thinks too. But what happens if you are wrong? Generally historically putting troops into a position based on "I think" without a good plan if you are wrong has lead to lots of problems. And in this case if you are wrong, your problems can include a direct conflict with a nuclear power that is capable of destroying every major city in the US. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, dunfer said: you guys are sad. Memes Welcome to the internet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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