2022 Off-Season "Who do we re-sign?" Thread

[method man]

40 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Has he been bad? What is his forecasted future position? Does he have flexibility? Where is he ranked out of our current linemen by our coaching staff? Wasn't he supposed to be a 1st round talent who fell because of suspensions at LSU? 

 

Too early a call by PP. Charles started one game at guard, which he lasted a few snaps against last season. He played RT in his one start this season and all we learned is he is clearly not a tackle. I think the guy can be at least a solid guard if he can stay healthy. Clear 3rd guard in the rotation next year.

[DWinzit]

9 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Humphries: If TH wants him back then do it. I love what Humphries brings....you're gonna see him win us a game this year same as Carter did last week. Humphries is the type of chain mover we can't take for granted. 

Often wondered how big a year Humphries would have had if Fitz stayed healthy. Fitz really liked and pushed for his signing.  He and Carter have been good pickups.

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 hours ago, method man said:

 

Too early a call by PP. Charles started one game at guard, which he lasted a few snaps against last season. He played RT in his one start this season and all we learned is he is clearly not a tackle. I think the guy can be at least a solid guard if he can stay healthy. Clear 3rd guard in the rotation next year.

I think Charles is steaming towards a bust.  But he’s only in his second year and has 2 more years to prove it.
 

I would bring back the other OL (and draft a guy) no matter what. Don’t mess with success. They have a group with good chemistry, keep it intact, minus Scherff.  Who is too expensive for his limited availability. 

 

6 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Often wondered how big a year Humphries would have had if Fitz stayed healthy. Fitz really liked and pushed for his signing.  He and Carter have been good pickups.

I wonder the same.  But I actually am pretty shocked even with TH he hasn’t been more productive.  With Samuel out, and Logan Thomas injured for a month, you’d think there would be more plays designed for him. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

McKissic

We keep signing players that make our heads turn and we're like, how did these guys get turned down by so many teams ?

Like Thomas, Carter, Heinicke, Seals-Jones, and McKissic, etc.

It used to be the opposite ; players would blossom elsewhere, and then fall flat when they come here...OR they would be nothing here, then go somewhere else and flourish.

It's a new era. It's a new era.

So, time to stop quoting things like "our abysmal prime time record" etc ! That time is gone. THIS is our prime time.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[Chump Bailey]

I'd be inclined to keep McCain and Danny Johnson personally but mostly agree with the list in the OP.

[method man]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

I'd be inclined to keep McCain and Danny Johnson personally but mostly agree with the list in the OP.

I think it was Galdi who notes that Danny Johnson has basically taken BSJ’s spot in the rotation as Fuller has shifted outside. BSJ was active on Sunday but only played ST snaps. DJ has gotten way better since we first saw him play a lot of CB as a rookie. I think I remember reading he is a former valedictorian 

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, method man said:

I think it was Galdi who notes that Danny Johnson has basically taken BSJ’s spot in the rotation as Fuller has shifted outside. BSJ was active on Sunday but only played ST snaps. DJ has gotten way better since we first saw him play a lot of CB as a rookie. I think I remember reading he is a former valedictorian 

I remember them talking about how smart DJ is and a student of the game. Super hard worker. I'd definitely bring him back to be our slot guy.

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I remember them talking about how smart DJ is and a student of the game. Super hard worker. I'd definitely bring him back to be our slot guy.

 

Also a sure tackler. One of the best tacklers on the team ; a bright spot, even when the defense was playing poorly.

And he's yet another gem we found undrafted.

It's amazing how many players we find after the draft. Added to that, the many disappointments and busts that were picked high. Just goes to show how so many players are over-rated coming out.

[method man]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Also a sure tackler. One of the best tacklers on the team ; a bright spot, even when the defense was playing poorly.

And he's yet another gem we found undrafted.

It's amazing how many players we find after the draft. Added to that, the many disappointments and busts that were picked high. Just goes to show how so many players are over-rated coming out.

I think it’s more about player development as this is year 4 for them and our defensive coaches misjudging talent again as he only started getting defensive snaps when McTyer and Darryl Roberts went down. Same stuff last year w Everett and Reaves. There is a gap between the offensive and defensive coaches when it comes to coaching ability and talent evaluation

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 minute ago, method man said:

I think it’s more about player development as this is year 4 for them and our defensive coaches misjudging talent again as he only started getting defensive snaps when McTyer and Darryl Roberts went down. Same stuff last year w Everett and Reaves. There is a gap between the offensive and defensive coaches when it comes to coaching ability and talent evaluation

 

DJ at least, is actually someone that I recall jumping right into action his rookie year and quickly getting acclimated, despite being an undrafted rookie.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, method man said:

I think it was Galdi who notes that Danny Johnson has basically taken BSJ’s spot in the rotation as Fuller has shifted outside. BSJ was active on Sunday but only played ST snaps. DJ has gotten way better since we first saw him play a lot of CB as a rookie. I think I remember reading he is a former valedictorian 

Yeah he pointed out BSJ played on 0 defensive snaps against Carolina.  He missed the Tampa game due to a concussion.

 

I think this is the case of the coaches seeing  something they really likes chemistry wise against Tampa and deciding not to screw it up.

 

I have to think bringing McCain snd Danny Johnson back won’t cost a ton.

 

After attempting to completely rebuild the secondary last off season and having it blow up in their faces, it’s possible they go for more continuity this off season. 

 

 

[veteranskinsfan]

I would keep Humphries and not too sure about keeping Sims even if he has a cheap contract.

If I brought back Samuels his contract would have to change. 

[method man]

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

DJ at least, is actually someone that I recall jumping right into action his rookie year and quickly getting acclimated, despite being an undrafted rookie.

 

 

Yep. I remember he and Stroman got a lot of snaps that season as rookies but both guys weren't any good, which is understandable. It's cool that he managed to develop as corner over the past few years without live game action playing that spot.

[skinny21]

I think I’d make a decent offer to RSJ.  He’s better insurance for Thomas that Bates (who I dig, but he’s a different type of TE).  Maybe another team beats our offer and it affects our comp pick formula in some way (I doubt it though?).  I’d love for the lightbulb to come on for Reyes though and he become Thomas’ backup while Bates is the #2 (inline) TE.

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:33 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Terry McLaurin (a year early)

Da'Ron Payne (a year early)

Charles Leno

Cornelius Lucas

J.D. McKissick

Ricky Seals-Jones

D. Carter

Joey Slye Guy

So now that the competitive part of the season is truly over, and we've had another month and a bit to dwell on it, I'm bumping this thread to see if there are any changes in people's minds.

 

The OP has the full list of who's unsigned and when over the next 2 years. Above was my list of folks they should go after immediately to re-sign.

 

I think I've changed my mind a bit on Payne.  I think he's a really good player, but I actually might consider trading him instead of re-signing him.  SOMETHING isn't working on the DL, and just bringing the same group back and hoping it is better next year isn't the strategy.

 

I am now more bullish than ever that they need to sign Leno and Lucas immediately.  They should not re-sign Scherff at the number he wants.  So, they need to keep as much of the OL intact. Also, I think Charles is going to get cut after camp next year.  They will have to go out and get a few more guys, but keeping the guys they have who played well as either starters or backups is imperative.  

 

I also think it has been highlighted HOW important J. D. McKissick is to this offense.  

 

One addition: If you can get him to come back for cheap, I'd bring Hump back.  

 

They need significant upgrades at QB, LB, Safety and Running Back.  You'd hope that Samuel could come back and be the upgrade at WR they were hoping for last year.  

 

I'm also torn on McCain.  I think he played pretty well during the winning streak, and the fewer changes to the secondary the better.  They blew up the chemistry last year, I don't think they should do it again.

 

Going through all of these, I really think there are good players on this team.  I think the QB play on offense either maximizes or sub-optimizes everything.  And TH, while he has a mile of heart and a lot of good attributes, just can't be a starting QB in the NFL. 

 

On defense, they have to figure out what the hell happened and fix it.  I think something is not jelling on the DL, so if you have to move a few folks, then you move them.  They desperately need help at LB, but that's a different thread.  

 

[Est.1974]

Priority moves for me would be to bring back the OT’s, along with JD and the depth receivers. Make Terry a contract offer he can’t refuse now.

 

Decide who we can afford to trade from that DL group. I agree that Payne may well be the one to move. I have a feeling he won’t be happy on that 5th year option. 

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I'd keep McKissick over Gibson any day.  In fact, I would try to trade Gibson for a 1st rounder if possible (haha).  Seriously though, this team has holes everywhere and not enough money or draft choices to plug them.  So with that in mind why not FINALLY start marketing some of the talent they actually have and get some draft capital?  The only worry is - Rivera and company will select another jamin davis who can't seem to find the field despite being drafted in the 1st round.  So do you really trust them to make the right call?  This team always is finding a way to disappoint.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Thirtyfive2seven

[Ball Security]

I’d like for them to be more proactive this winter and lock McLaurin and extend Flowers.  I’d also explore trading Payne and Sweat to see what we can get.  
 

Trading them, and cutting Collins would get our cap availability to around 85M with more picks.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Ball Security said:

I’d like for them to be more proactive this winter and lock McLaurin and extend Flowers.  I’d also explore trading Payne and Sweat to see what we can get.  
 

Trading them, and cutting Collins would get our cap availability to around 85M with more picks.

Just a sneaky suspicion, I don't think they are going to cut Collins.  He's overpaid, but for what they now want him doing, he does really, really well.  

 

I agree with locking up McLaurin.  I don't think they NEED to extend Flowers right now, but if they did, I wouldn't be upset.  

 

They definitely need to get Lucas and Leno locked up.  Your starting LT and swing backup tackle, really important.  or they're going to be in the market for 2 starters this off-season, since I don't think Scherff is coming back.  

[Ball Security]

50 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Just a sneaky suspicion, I don't think they are going to cut Collins.  He's overpaid, but for what they now want him doing, he does really, really well.  

 

I agree with locking up McLaurin.  I don't think they NEED to extend Flowers right now, but if they did, I wouldn't be upset.  

 

They definitely need to get Lucas and Leno locked up.  Your starting LT and swing backup tackle, really important.  or they're going to be in the market for 2 starters this off-season, since I don't think Scherff is coming back.  

Collins obviously played a lot better when his role changed.  But I balance that with the fact he hasn’t made it through the previous two seasons, cutting him frees up $12M, and keeping him potentially takes away a spot on the field for Davis.

 

Also agree about Leno/Lucas, but I do think Schweitzer replaces Scherff. Unfortunately Charles doesn’t appear to be an asset.  Big offseason for him.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Ball Security

[Riggodrill44]

I seriously wonder if anyone on this board saw the Dallas game.

We couldn’t block them, couldn’t tackle them, we couldn’t run with them.

So your solution is to bring back the same guys that couldn’t get it done.

We need better players. Allen,Payne, Sweat McLaurin all should be traded. 
We need better DL, we need better OL. We lack speed and size everywhere on this roster. The traded players gives us more chances to get the right guys on the roster.

Its going to hurt short term, but we don’t have enough NFL talent on this team.

[TChaler70]

8 minutes ago, Riggodrill44 said:

I seriously wonder if anyone on this board saw the Dallas game.

We couldn’t block them, couldn’t tackle them, we couldn’t run with them.

So your solution is to bring back the same guys that couldn’t get it done.

We need better players. Allen,Payne, Sweat McLaurin all should be traded. 
We need better DL, we need better OL. We lack speed and size everywhere on this roster. The traded players gives us more chances to get the right guys on the roster.

Its going to hurt short term, but we don’t have enough NFL talent on this team.

Bring back J.D. McKissick and thank god Allen is signed. No way I am giving anywhere near a blank check to McLaurin, top 15 wr but nowhere near elite, terrible red zone target because he catches 90% his passes with his body. Trade Payne and resign Sweat.

[Silvernon]

On 11/22/2021 at 1:33 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

(There are a few others but they are all "Not now" consensus guys.  )

 

So, in summary, my "YES" guys are:

Terry McLaurin (a year early)

Da'Ron Payne (a year early)

Charles Leno

Cornelius Lucas

J.D. McKissick

Ricky Seals-Jones

D. Carter

Joey Slye Guy

 

1. Brandon Scherff (G) - NO.

2. Ryan Fitzpatrick (QB) - NO.

3. Charles Leno (OL) - YES.

4. Jon Bostic (LB)  - MAYBE.

5. Cam Sims (WR) - MAYBE.

6. Cornelius Lucas (OL) - NO.

7. J. D. McKissic (RB) - YES.

8. Darryl Roberts (CB) - NO.

9. Bobby McCain (CB/S) - YES.

10. Adam Humphries (WR) - MAYBE.

11. Tyler Larsen (C) - NO. 

12. Danny Johnson (CB) - NO

13. Ricky Seals-Jones (TE) - MAYBE.  

14. David Mayo (ILB) - MAYBE

15. Jared Norris (OLB) - NO.

16. Torry McTyler (CB) - NO. 

17.  DeAndre Carter (WR) - YES.

18. Com Elder (CB) - NO.  

19.  Kyle Allen (QB) - MAYBE.

20. Joey Slye (K) - YES.

21. Troy Apke (ST) - YES.

22. Najee Toran (T) - NO.

23. Jordan Kunsazyk (LB) - NO.

24. Tim Settle (DT) - MAYBE.

24. Jalen Jelks (OLB) - NO.

 

6 definitely, a bunch of contextual maybe's depending on QB drafted/traded for and the depth of the FA class. 

 

1 year away

1. Ereck Flowers (G) - EXTENSION. 

2. Da'Ron Payne (DT) - MAYBE.

3. Wes Schweitzer (G) - YES.

4. Matt Ioannidis (DT) - EXTENSION.

5. Montez Sweat (DE) - OPTION/TRADE

6. Terry McLaurin (WR) - EXTENSION.

7.  Taylor Heinecke (QB) - NO.

 

I think you want to re-sign Payne, but they did choose Allen so we shall see. Maybe you re-sign to an Ioannidis type of deal and trade Payne. And I can see them paying one DE the way this team is being built and that's not Montez. 

[method man]

Key resigns are Leno, McKissic, Carter and Slye. I'd also make a strong effort to bring back Lucas (arguably the league's best swing tackle), D. Johnson (who should be #1 nickel next year), Allen (low level tender), Darryl Roberts (showed he's a solid backup outside corner), Larsen (showed he's a decent backup center), Bostic (as backup MLB) and McCain (as backup FS or 3rd safety). RSJ, Humphries, Sims and Apke can all come back for the minimum. Would love Settle back but he's gone unless they trade Payne

 

Regarding extensions, I would make best attempts to extend all 7 guys + Holcomb who is due for one too. Get a gauge of what Payne's and Sweat's expectations are and, if they are high or they don't want to come back, try to ship them and get value.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

20 hours ago, Riggodrill44 said:

I seriously wonder if anyone on this board saw the Dallas game.

We couldn’t block them, couldn’t tackle them, we couldn’t run with them.

So your solution is to bring back the same guys that couldn’t get it done.

We need better players. Allen,Payne, Sweat McLaurin all should be traded. 
We need better DL, we need better OL. We lack speed and size everywhere on this roster. The traded players gives us more chances to get the right guys on the roster.

Its going to hurt short term, but we don’t have enough NFL talent on this team.

I can see how you can reach this conclusion.  However, I would like to point you to the 2 Dallas games from last year when we throttled them pretty good. 

 

The reason is simple: Last year - No Dak, and they were really beat up.  (And horribly coached defensively).

 

This year: With Dak, much healthier, and we were beat up.

 

There is a razor's edge in the NFL, and if a few things go the wrong way, things can snowball.

 

Allen and McLaurin are 2 of the premier players at their positions.  Payne is at least a B+ player. Sweat ... I'm not sure.  He has all the talent in the world but hasn't put it together.  If they were to trade him, that's fine.  

 

The problem I think people are seeing is that for the better part of the last month, we haven't seen anything approaching our actual roster.   Depth is massively important in the NFL.  You can't be one deep.  You have to be 2 deep, and have capable backups.  

 

However, we're not playing with backups.  We're playing with guys who are backups to the backups who were the backups.  

 

Now, I would agree that we CAN'T reply on guys who are oft injured to stay healthy. Bruce did that with CT, Reed, a few others, and it never worked.  Hence why I think they need to let Brandon Scherff go.

 

But the players who we are talking about bringing back, at least most of them, are roll-player kind of guys anyway:

 

Leno is a serviceable LT.  If you don't re-sign him, you aren't going to find an A+ LT on the FA market, and you only have 1 first round pick. 

Lucas is a very valuable backup swing tackle. If you don't bring him back, who plays that role? 

J. D. McKissic is good for what he is.  And he's not expensive.  He's fast, does a lot of things, and brings diversity.  This does not mean you still don't try and bring in a better RB.  

... I could go on.

 

You can't turn over 2/3 of the roster in one year with quality players.  It's just not possible.

 

One other thing I would note: We TRIED to upgrade the secondary last year.  Every single talent evaluator would put WJIII ahead of Darby. We drafted St. Juice, who looked pretty promising for a rookie for a while.  What happened?  We completely broke the chemistry of a secondary which was playing pretty well.  As soon as they put Collins back up in the box, Kurl back in at SS, and moved Fuller back outside, the secondary looked MUCH better.  Fuller looked like trash the beginning part of the season.  Then he looked really good for a while.  Why?  Because it's more than just talent.  It's how you position the talent.  

 

Which is why you need to be judicious about who you retain, and then go after high-impact players in FA.

 

I do think there will be at least 1 DL traded in the off-season.  I don't know if it will be Sweat or Payne.  It's possible they trade both.  Something is not right on the DL.  The Chemistry is just not there, and it shows.  So if you have to break it up, you have to break it up.