The Official QB Thread- No Howell, No Way. Howell traded to the Seahawks. MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB1

[mistertim]

30 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

 

 

 

Holy ****. I had no idea Gina Carano also played football.

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Or! Or... and, hear me out here... he could come here and also have a dominant run game and dominant defense to prop him up. In fact, what if I told you that was basically the entire thesis behind the interest in him from a Commanders perspective?  

 

saw a mock free agent prediction where we sign Tannehill this offseason after the Titans move on from him....time is yours.

[Llevron]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

saw a mock free agent prediction where we sign Tannehill this offseason after the Titans move on from him....time is yours.

For why? He doesn’t bring anything here we don’t already have. 

[NoCalMike]

Jimmy G runs a WCO in SF which tend to be QB friendly stat-wise since they are based on a lot of short quick passing.  If you take him out of that system and give him the Scott Turner "book of wonderment and confusion" I am not sure how well Jimmy G would perform.  If we are going to be signing a new vet all over again, the coaches better be pretty sure they can learn & digest Scott Turner's offense quickly & efficiently.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

For why? He doesn’t bring anything here we don’t already have. 

I agree, plus he's 34 years old. 

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

saw a mock free agent prediction where we sign Tannehill this offseason after the Titans move on from him....time is yours.

 

You absolutely look at him as an option.

 

I don't understand why people think it's all-or-nothing. Duh we want to find the next Mahomes or Allen. But guess what? We're not going to have a high draft choice and we may not love anyone coming out this year who will be available. 

 

We are a competent QB away from serious contention. Therefore, you must consider all the competent QBs. 

 

Tannehill at $40M? No thanks. Tannehill at $25M? Sign me up.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

You absolutely look at him as an option.

 

I don't understand why people think it's all-or-nothing. Duh we want to find the next Mahomes or Allen. But guess what? We're not going to have a high draft choice and we may not love anyone coming out this year who will be available. 

 

We are a competent QB away from serious contention. Therefore, you must consider all the competent QBs. 

 

Tannehill at $40M? No thanks. Tannehill at $25M? Sign me up.

If the coaches like Howell but don't think he's ready I think I'd entertain Tannehill at a number around 12-15 mil per for 2 years with incentives. He's the starter and we make Howell the backup if the coaches believe in Howell but don't think he's ready and the roster is ready to contend for a SB. I'm low balling Tannehill because I don't think anyone else is looking at him as their starter. Looking around, who else might want Tannehill? The Jets? Colts? Falcons? Panthers? 

Tanny would be like another Alex Smith signing for us....

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

If the coaches like Howell but don't think he's ready I think I'd entertain Tannehill at a number around 12-15 mil per for 2 years with incentives. He's the starter and we make Howell the backup if the coaches believe in Howell but don't think he's ready and the roster is ready to contend for a SB. I'm low balling Tannehill because I don't think anyone else is looking at him as their starter. Looking around, who else might want Tannehill? The Jets? Colts? Falcons? Panthers? 

Tanny would be like another Alex Smith signing for us....

 

Goes without saying I'd feel much better about Tannehill at $12-15M than $25M.

 

Howell is the wild card because only the coaches know how ready he is or isn't. But given that he's a rookie and where the team is, my guess is Ron will want to find a veteran to commit to for the next ~3 years while we can keep this current team together and hopefully make a run before we need to re-tool. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mhd24]

Was listening to Bill Simmons and his podcast today.  He had a theory about Brady coming back to the Pats for one more year.  I was thinking why not us?  With a new owner, defense, running game, skill guys, we could be a pretty attractive destination if Brady doesn't retire.

[tmandoug1]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Or an actual Oline that wouldn't get said franchise QB broken. 

[zCommander]

8 hours ago, mh86 said:

I honestly can believe the hivers that think Jimmy g is worthy of wasting time on. We’d be going for a slight upgrade. I think most would rather dump wentz and keep our D signed. Getting Jimmy g is giving us what we already have, maybe marginally better. At least heini has experience in this system that from the likes of Fitzpatrick think is difficult to learn. 

 

Please don't insult a true "hiver". I am not stupid. I said no to Jimmy G. in the offseason. I stand firm on that to this day as well. 

I also said Wentz was marginally better than Taylor and not a night and day different like one poster said. So far that has also been true. I also said I will see how Wentz fairs out on our team first and not to look at what he has done in Indy. So far also true. So please don't lump one person who is high on Jimmy G. with others who are not. 

 

I would roll with Howell if ready by next year and TH as the backup. 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by zCommander

[El Mexican]

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

We are a competent QB away from serious contention. Therefore, you must consider all the competent QBs. 

 

Yeah no. The reason our O-line has looked respectable is thanks in large part to TH mobility and unpredictablity.

Our RBs have benefited as a consequence as well.

 

But the O-line remains the most important group to solidify.

Since Trent Williams and Brandon Sherf left we have struggled a lot.

Just now, El Mexican said:

 

Yeah no. The reason our O-line has looked respectable is thanks in large part to TH's mobility and unpredictablity.

Our RBs have benefited as a consequence as well.

 

But the O-line remains the most important group to solidify.

Since Trent Williams and Brandon Sherf left we have struggled a lot.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Actually how dangerous could this entire team be with a franchise QB lol...Defense would be pinning its ears back by the middle of the 2nd quarter.

[757SeanTaylor21]

27 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

Actually how dangerous could this entire team be with a franchise QB lol...Defense would be pinning its ears back by the middle of the 2nd quarter.

We still got Scott turner as oc so I doubt that we would be winning by that much

[wit33]

7 hours ago, Conn said:

Hearing Heinicke acknowledge and address that he’s missed some opportunities to run for first downs actually made me feel a ton better. He could have easily said he’s focused on keeping his eyes downfield for big plays, etc. but instead he just admitted he should be doing that more to keep drives on-track. That’s great. Leads me to believe we’ll see him start to keep defenses a little more honest in those situations in the coming weeks. And he needs to get that on tape if we’re going to keep succeeding the way we are, or defenses will continue to constrict like they did last season. He can loosen them up without putting himself in crazy danger. 

100% agree. 
 

With his improved ability to manage a game and be below average from the pocket if he can reconnect with his playmaking side he might just be able to get to average. If he gets to level of combining his playmaking and continued game management improvement from the pocket, I have great confidence he can match a Jimmy G, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Daniel Jones or Geno Smith in the playoffs in terms of impact on a game. Jalen Hurts is the only guy I put above these guys in the NFC.
 

Super Bowl here we come! I can live with getting smashed by Mahomes or Allen. I know the anti Heineke guys will then win the overall debate if he doesn’t win the Super Bowl.  “You can’t win the Super Bowl with him”. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by wit33

[wit33]

3 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Or an actual Oline that wouldn't get said franchise QB broken. 

Remain cheap at Oline. Maski is the GOAT. Develop, develop, and develop some more. I want one of the cheapest Olines year to year. 
 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

Or an actual Oline that wouldn't get said franchise QB broken. 

 

Ww had one the previous season, they will get back there IMO next season.  QB is obviously the harder part.  We've had strong O lines for a good part of Dan's tenure.  But rarely had both weapons in the running game and passing game at the same time while having a good defense.  We've had part of the symphony during different eras but can't think of an era with a roster like this -- closest IMO was the Gibbs 2 era.
 

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

Remain cheap at Oline. Maski is the GOAT. Develop, develop, and develop some more. I want one of the cheapest Olines year to year. 
 

 

If you mean by using high draft capital, then OK.  But IMO its the code red position of the off season is certainly O line especially if you want to build the roster your way which doesn't involve likely a higher end QB. 

 

I share your optimism that Masko can do it.  And IMO likely do it fast.  But they still must invest in the spot to pull it off. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

100% agree. 
 

With his improved ability to manage a game and be below average from the pocket if he can reconnect with his playmaking side he might just be able to get to average. If he gets to level of combining his playmaking and continued game management improvement from the pocket, I have great confidence he can match a Jimmy G, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Daniel Jones or Geno Smith in the playoffs in terms of impact on a game. Jalen Hurts is the only guy I put above these guys in the NFC.
 

Super Bowl here we come! I can live with getting smashed by Mahomes or Allen. I know the anti Heineke guys will then win the overall debate if he doesn’t win the Super Bowl.  “You can’t win the Super Bowl with him”. 

 

I don't consider myself an "anti-Heinicke guy" or anti any player on this team.   Is there anyone here who actually would be actively rooting for Heinicke to lose in the playoffs as you suggest here?

 

Your point if I read it seems to be Heinicke is a deep playoff run type of QB, but you are not sure if he is a wnning SB QB. 

 

The ones who you deem are "anti" Heinicke.  And I am not sure i fit that list because I don't hit the point as much as some do -- but if so or in defense if anyone that supposedly fits that category, from what I casn tell they are simply passionate fans and want to see a SB win or a consistent winner for the long haul and don't think Heinicke is the guy to do that.  Not because they don't like him but because of his obvious talent deficiences compared to some of the better QBs in the league.  

 

I'll add this talk about how well Heinicke will play and how deep he will go into the playoffs -- seems bad karma discussion, lets get to the playoffs first. 😀

Edited December 3, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Trent Dilfer was the QB of a winning Super Bowl team.  I know this example gets thrown around a lot and we generally laugh at the prospect of it ever happening again.  Certainly seems silly to bet on a Dilferish QB riding a team to the Super Bowl again.

 

If Heinicke was somehow able to ride this run game and defense to a Super Bowl, that would be amazing.  However, like the Ravens - I’d let him walk after it was over. 😭

[zCommander]

5 hours ago, wit33 said:

Remain cheap at Oline. Maski is the GOAT. Develop, develop, and develop some more. I want one of the cheapest Olines year to year. 
 

 

This year was the year to add to the OL instead of getting Wentz like I have said before. The way our D is playing you can't waste a lot of year(s). You have to add through the FA and it will cost you and you still add through the draft as well on both sides. The QB situation is still a ? mark for 2023 though. If you can find and luck out on a top 15 QB you go that route instead of starting Howell if he is not the guy. If Howell is that guy then there your cheap option in the offense as well. 

 

Just now, zCommander said:

 

This year was the year to add to the OL instead of getting Wentz like I have said before. The way our D is playing you can't waste a lot of year(s). You have to add through the FA and it will cost you and you still add through the draft as well on both sides. The QB situation is still a ? mark for 2023 though. If you can find and luck out on a top 15 QB you go that route instead of starting Howell if he is not the guy. If Howell is that guy then there your cheap option in the offense as well. 

 

And there is nothing wrong with that at all. You have to have a franchise QB if you want to win year in and year out. Taylor can still be the backup as long as Turner is still here though. 

[Koolblue13]

Hard to blame Scott. He's putting together some really nice plays out there. This second play should have been thrown a second or two sooner, but nicely done.

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Trent Dilfer was the QB of a winning Super Bowl team.  I know this example gets thrown around a lot and we generally laugh at the prospect of it ever happening again.  Certainly seems silly to bet on a Dilferish QB riding a team to the Super Bowl again.

 

If Heinicke was somehow able to ride this run game and defense to a Super Bowl, that would be amazing.  However, like the Ravens - I’d let him walk after it was over. 😭

 

Case Keenum was a QB of a 13-3 team that went to the NFC Championship game.

[goskins10]

6 hours ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

We still got Scott turner as oc so I doubt that we would be winning by that much

 

You mean the Scott Turner that has engineered an offense around a QB who has very clear physical limitations with an oline that has struggled blocking? You mean that Scott Turner? The times of just ragging on Scott Turner needs to at least slow down. He has done a masteful job of developing and then sticking to the only offense TH can run to any effectivness - mostly playing keep away from TH. The Jacksonville game was the first and only real glimpse of what his offense is and can be with a true franchise QB if they do not self implode like Carson did. . 

 

 

8 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

Yeah no. The reason our O-line has looked respectable is thanks in large part to TH mobility and unpredictablity.

Our RBs have benefited as a consequence as well.

 

But the O-line remains the most important group to solidify.

Since Trent Williams and Brandon Sherf left we have struggled a lot.

 

 

Yea no - TH is some very small part of the reason the Oline has performed a better. But it is much more to do with continuity - there were 6 different starting olines the first 6 gms, and Scott's game planning committing to the run that alllows the oline to just push downhill most of the time. Has TH done better than Carson? In this area, absolutely. But that is not setting the bar very high. Not sure how much people should be crowing about an average of 198 yds/gm with 60% comp and about a TO a gm.

 

Not for nothing, but the level of defenses the team has played the last 7 gms has helped a lot. The first 5 gms the pt's against for the opponent averaged 11.8, heavily skewed by the Lions at 31. There where 3 top 10 Ds with the other being #12. Contrast that with the last 7 gms the average is 21st with only the Eagles ranked in th top 10. It's a little closer in terms of yds where it's 13th vs 17.7th. Still 5 slots and last I looked it's pts that wins games. 

 

Yea, yea, but he just wins! But does HE just win? Defence is giving up 6 less pts a gm the last 7 gms (starting with the Bears and Carson playing) than the first 5. While the offense has only gained 2.4 points during that time. - Def - 21.2 (1st 5) vs 15.4 (last 7) - Off - 18 vs 20.4 - If you remove the defensive points of which there were none the first 5 gms the offense itself is producing the same pts per game. So riddle me this Batman, how is the QB and the offense responsible for wins if they are scoring the same pts per game and the Defsnes is holding the other teams to almost a full TD less per game? I am not saying he deserves no credit. There is certainly a different feel about the team and the guys are feeding off of it. But physically he is adding not much. 

 

Not for nothing, but the level of defenses the team has played he last 7 gms has also helped a lot. The first 5 gms the pt's against for the opponenet averaged 11.8 heavily skewed by the Lions at 31. There 3 top 10 Ds with the other being #12. Constrast that with the last 7 gms the average is 21st with only the Eagles ranked in th top 10. It's a little closer in termsa of yds where it's 13th vs 17.7th. Still 5 slots and last I looked it's pts that wins games. 

 

i have no problem giving TH his due and have so quite consistently. I am also NOT advocating for Carson Wentz. My hope is he stays on the bench and gets releasaed at the end of the season losing that contract. But this over the top effusive praise giving TH credit for just about everything but the sun rising is nauseating. The FACT is - yes the FACT is the team is winning mostly despte TH in terms of physical play. His value is they like him and he is easy to root for. But there are serious offensive weapons laying to waste in Jahan Dotson and Curtis Samuel because TH can't get them the ball. Same with the TEs. And eventually the running game will get stopped. How long do you think feel good ids going to last if the teams loses a game or two and TH is still having games like Atl - 138 yds on 14 of 23 for 60.9% comp and 2 TDs amd a pick. 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Case Keenum was a QB of a 13-3 team that went to the NFC Championship game.

My first comp for Heinicke was Keenum.  Fitting.