The Official QB Thread- No Howell, No Way. Howell traded to the Seahawks. MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB1

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Completion %

Wentz 62.1  Heinicke 60.2

 

Yard per attempt

Wentz 6.4   Heinicke 6.8

 

Yard per completion

Wentz 10.2  Heinicke 11.3

 

TD%

Wentz 4.3  Heinicke 4.1

 

INT%

Wentz 2.6  Heinicke 2.9

 

QB Rating

Wentz 84.1  Heinicke 82.7

 

QBR

Wentz 32.9  Heinicke 46.9

 

 

Does the above mean that Wentz at his worst...is pretty much the same as Heinicke at his best? lol...

Key difference, Heinicke is winning and Wentz is losing. Neither is young enough to sacrifice a season while we develop them. The fact that Heinicke is winning should buy him rope to improve and take chances especially in games we have the lead. 

 

If we want a QB to learn from Heinicke is Howell, not Wentz. 

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Key difference, Heinicke is winning and Wentz is losing. Neither is young enough to sacrifice a season while we develop them. The fact that Heinicke is winning should buy him rope to improve and take chances especially in games we have the lead. 

 

If we want a QB to learn from Heinicke is Howell, not Wentz. 

 

While true, would Wentz be winning with the current gameplan vs. the one where we had him throwing the ball and getting abused on a play to play basis?

 

Is Heinicke's mobility a big difference in sack numbers? Some difference? Little difference?

 

Is the run emphasis helping with the sacks? Has the OL gotten better? 

 

We don't know and can't. We can hypothesize. I don't know if this offense would be better with Wentz or not. It would be more of a threat to put up passing yards, but perhaps also more of a threat for sacks in big moments as well. l'm not sure. 

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

While true, would Wentz be winning with the current gameplan vs. the one where we had him throwing the ball and getting abused on a play to play basis?

 

Is Heinicke's mobility a big difference in sack numbers? Some difference? Little difference?

 

Is the run emphasis helping with the sacks? Has the OL gotten better? 

 

We don't know and can't. We can hypothesize. I don't know if this offense would be better with Wentz or not. It would be more of a threat to put up passing yards, but perhaps also more of a threat for sacks in big moments as well. l'm not sure. 

But We didn't pay Wentz 28 Million to do a Heinicke offense. We can do a Heinicke offense with Henicke. We got Wentz to open up the offense. Maybe he could do that, but the problem is we weren't winning with him and his offense was 1 - great (JAX), 2 - nothing for a half (DET), 3 - nothing (PHI), 4 - nothing (DAL), 5 - decent (TEN), 6 - nothing (CHI). That's 28 Million dollars we're putting into him. For that type of money, I'm not looking for him to come in here and just hand the ball off. I mean people talk about Heinicke having 138 yards but Wentz had 99 yards against Chicago.

 

To me its not about a comparison between Wentz and Heinicke. Its about who should hold the position while Howell develops. And while I mention that, if we activate Wentz on Friday I think that's a disservice to Howell who has been the backup the past 6 weeks. If he's looked good in that role then we make Wentz inactive for the rest of the year and roll with Heinicke and Howell as our 1 and 2. I supported Wentz early on and understood his struggles but we caught fire without him proving that we don't need him and his 28 Million dollars to win. Lets start getting Howell ready and see if he's our QB of the future. And let Heinicke groom him. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

52 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But We didn't pay Wentz 28 Million to do a Heinicke offense. We can do a Heinicke offense with Henicke.

There’s a place that exists between what they were doing with Wentz initially and the Heinicke offense.  At least to me, it felt like Scott Turner finally got that sports car he was jonesing for and was hellbent on driving it at excessive speeds on every roadway. 

The Heinicke offense of today is also different than it was last season.  This new emphasis on running the stuffing out of the ball seems to stem from what they saw out of Heinicke last year, this years drop off in pass protection and a new horse named Brian Robinson.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

but Wentz had 99 yards against Chicago

Yeah, with a broken finger on his throwing hand.

 

 he also had 3 games with 1009 yards passing and a 9 to 4 touchdown to interception ratio.

That's potential heinicke doesn't have and never will.

 

Again, not saying wentz is the answer but he has 350 yard 4 touchdown potential if we can protect him and we may need that in the playoffs.

[DWinzit]

I would have liked to see Wentz with the current game plan. He may have been placed in a better situation to win and would remove any doubt I may harbor about his potential.

 

At this point I would rather see Howell installed with this plan at some point

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

This is becoming a thing as far as media. lol maybe they are reading this thread.  Grant and Danny talked about this yesterday, ditto Sheehan just now with a PFF guy about Taylor not running.

 

 

 

The PFF guy debated Wentz versus Heinicke.  His points more or less:

 

A.  It's worth the debate considering Taylor is limited and Wentz is the better passer.

 

B.  PFF is not high on Heinicke, scores low on most of their grades, he said among starters he now has the highest number of interceptable passes and has gotten lucky

 

C.  He'd still stick with Taylor for now because they are winning.

 

D.  He's not really high on Wentz though either -- pocket presence, decision making is shaky -- made the O line look worse than they played when he was in the lineup

 

E. He really likes the creativity with the run game from Scott Turner and suggested if Taylor brought his own element of running to that it likely would be even stronger

Edited December 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

Yeah, with a broken finger on his throwing hand.

 

 he also had 3 games with 1009 yards passing and a 9 to 4 touchdown to interception ratio.

That's potential heinicke doesn't have and never will.

 

Again, not saying wentz is the answer but he has 350 yard 4 touchdown potential if we can protect him and we may need that in the playoffs.

Yeah, in games where we were down multiple scores so we were just slinging it everywhere. Its a chicken and egg argument because our offense looked so inept against Detroit (1 half) Philly and Dallas that we couldn't run the ball because we were down multiple scores and needed a passing game to bring us back. 

 

We had 39 net yards in our first 7 drives against detroit

We had 62 net yards on our first 9 drives against Philly

We had 9 drives of 22 yards or less against Dallas. 

 

Sure the end numbers may look decent for Wentz (337, 211, 170) but its not how you stay in the game. I posted earlier that Heinicke is keeping drives alive. And its one thing to depend on the running game, but Heinicke is throwing for first downs at a 35% clip, vs 29% for Wentz. We're paying 28 mil. It takes time to learn an offense, but if we were winning while he was learning, then ok. Unfortunately we weren't. Now that we are, I feel that Wentz has missed his chance because once Heinicke goes down (due to injury) it should be Howell season. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is becoming a thing as far as media. lol maybe they are reading this thread.  Grant and Danny talked about this yesterday, ditto Sheehan just now with a PFF guy about Taylor not running.

 

 

 

The PFF guy debated Wentz versus Heinicke.  His points more or less:

 

A.  It's worth the debate considering Taylor is limited and Wentz is the better passer.

 

B.  PFF is not high on Heinicke, scores low on most of their grades, he said among starters he now has the highest number of interceptable passes and has gotten lucky

 

C.  He'd still stick with Taylor for now because they are winning.

 

D.  He's not really high on Wentz though either -- pocket presence, decision making is shaky -- made the O line look worse than they played when he was in the lineup

 

E. He really likes the creativity with the run game from Scott Turner and suggested if Taylor brought his own element of running to that it likely would be even stronger

 

They absolutely, 100% read this forum. Some of them, anyways. If you notice when we begin to talk about a topic it gains traction with some media outlets whereas with others it never gets picked up. Can kind of tell who reads this forum. Not saying we fuel the conversations, but they certainly use our conversations to build on. 

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah, in games where we were down multiple scores so we were just slinging it everywhere. Its a chicken and egg argument because our offense looked so inept against Detroit (1 half) Philly and Dallas that we couldn't run the ball because we were down multiple scores and needed a passing game to bring us back. 

 

We had 39 net yards in our first 7 drives against detroit

We had 62 net yards on our first 9 drives against Philly

We had 9 drives of 22 yards or less against Dallas. 

 

Sure the end numbers may look decent for Wentz (337, 211, 170) but its not how you stay in the game. I posted earlier that Heinicke is keeping drives alive. And its one thing to depend on the running game, but Heinicke is throwing for first downs at a 35% clip, vs 29% for Wentz. We're paying 28 mil. It takes time to learn an offense, but if we were winning while he was learning, then ok. Unfortunately we weren't. Now that we are, I feel that Wentz has missed his chance because once Heinicke goes down (due to injury) it should be Howell season. 

 

$28M for a QB who throws <30 times a game and has 250+ yards is not a bad investment. Paying $28M and going away from your strengths and throwing it 30+ every game just because you're paying a guy $28M is stupid. 

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

While true, would Wentz be winning with the current gameplan vs. the one where we had him throwing the ball and getting abused on a play to play basis?

 

We saw what happened when they tried the rush heavy lean on the defense way to win games with Wentz against Dallas.  Scored 10 points on offense.  Was a 1 score game going into the fourth quarter.  

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

They absolutely, 100% read this forum. Some of them, anyways. If you notice when we begin to talk about a topic it gains traction with some media outlets whereas with others it never gets picked up. Can kind of tell who reads this forum. Not saying we fuel the conversations, but they certainly use our conversations to build on. 

 

 

Feels that way, a bunch of times a topic got discussed with an angle and all of a sudden you hear it discussed on 980 or 106.7 soon after, sometimes just hours after.

[Thinking Skins]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:03 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

I get that you're kindof making a joke here, but the point really holds.  Let's start in 2013, the year after the Luck/Griffin draft.  

 

2013: No top QBs, highest was EJ Manuel to the Jets at 16

 

2014: 

#3 - Blake Bortles: Bust

 

2015:

#1 - Winston: Bust

#2 - Mariota: Bust

 

2016: 

#1 - Goff: Maybe not a bust, but not really worthy of #1 #1

#2 - Wentz. Certainly a bust for what the Eagles traded up to get him.

 

2017: 

#2 - Mitch Trubisky:Bust

** #10 Mahomes - Best QB in the NFL

** #12 DeShaun Watson - Was a top 5 QB until personal issues derailed his career

 

2018: 

#1 - Baker Mayfield: Bust

#3 - Sam Darnold: Bust

** #7 Josh Allen, probably the second best QB in the NFL

** #10 Josh Rosen: Bust

** #32 Lamar Jackson

 

2019: 

#1 Kyler Murray: Jury's out

#6 Daniel Jones: Eh, maybe not a full fledged bust but not #6 worthy

 

2020:

#1 Burrow: Franchise QB

#5: Tua: Looks like this is working out

#6: Herbert: Franchise QB

 

2021:

#1: Trevor Lawrence: Seems to be coming around

#2: Zach Wilson: Seem to be busting

#3: Trey Lance: Can't get on the field

** #11 Justin Fields: Tough to tell, Bears are bad, but certainly not franchise QB yet. 

 

For a stretch between 2014 and 2019, the only non-busts QB taken inside the top 10 were Allen and Murray.  Allen was the third QB taken in his class. Mahomes was 10, and was the second QB taken in his class. If you want to include him in the top 10 non-busts, that's fine too. That's a whopping 3 in 6 years out of 9.

 

Betting on a top 10 QB has about a 1/3 chance of working out. You've kindof got to get lucky having the right pick and the right guy.

 

The last #1 #1 with a HOF career was Peyton Manning in 1998.  Luck might be the second best #1 #1 QB since then, and Cam is probably third.  Burrow is too early to tell, but trending in the right direction. 

 

 

 

 

 

This takes me back. I remember doing a similar thing to convince somebody (SIP, maybe Oldfan, maybe somebody else) that it wasn't worth it to trade up because they rarely work out. But there are always the exceptions and then there was the pay scale that was supposed to change things. 

 

I'm still a fan of this type of football we're playing right now. It may take some bounces of the ball the right way to win one (see SF and Baltimore). But I think that drafting a QB or even signing one like Wentz and expecting them to come in and play like a superstar from the go is just a pipedream. I think having a foundation in place and developing them slowly and letting them get more comfortable with their reads, the speed of the game, etc and then they can grow into a star. Or not. But then you can insert a Mike White or Russell Wilson or whoever the backup is and try to keep it going. Remember in 2018 we had this offense. Then Smith goes down and we try Colt and Sanchez but things somewhat stabilize with street FA pickup Johnson. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

We saw what happened when they tried the rush heavy lean on the defense way to win games with Wentz against Dallas.  Scored 10 points on offense.  Was a 1 score game going into the fourth quarter.  

 

You are such a Heinicke lover that its really difficult to have a good conversation with you. In fact, it's impossible. I get it. Heinicke is your savior. I hope you all had a nice Thanksgiving at the Heinicke homestead.

Edited December 1, 2022 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I would have liked to see Wentz with the current game plan. He may have been placed in a better situation to win and would remove any doubt I may harbor about his potential.

 

 

 

Part of me is curious too.

 

My three concerns about Wentz are:

 

A.  He seemed played with no tempo-oomph.  His body language seemed to match the flatness of the offense.

 

B.  Pocket presence taking sacks

 

C.  Not known for his play in big games and big spots -- and that's what we are about to undergo.

 

But can he hand off the ball 40 times and actually threaten a defense with going deep off of play action and make defenses pay?  You bet.  Heinicke doesn't have the arm talent to capitalize off of their run game.  Scott's (Norv's) defense is somewhat predicated on play-action where you use the run to set up the deep ball.  When Wentz was in the line up the run game wasn't humming.

 

Howell has the arm strength to capitalize off of the run game and unlike Wentz and Taylor he presents a run threat, too.  But I know its risky to roll the dice on a rookie in the middle of a playoff hunt.  

[Thinking Skins]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

They absolutely, 100% read this forum. Some of them, anyways. If you notice when we begin to talk about a topic it gains traction with some media outlets whereas with others it never gets picked up. Can kind of tell who reads this forum. Not saying we fuel the conversations, but they certainly use our conversations to build on. 

 

$28M for a QB who throws <30 times a game and has 250+ yards is not a bad investment. Paying $28M and going away from your strengths and throwing it 30+ every game just because you're paying a guy $28M is stupid. 

But what are our strengths? With a strong arm QB and a WR combo of Terry, Samuel and Doctson with Gibson and Thomas we could have an areal offense. Unfortunately our OL didn't support that. And what we saw was that in that type of offense he was getting sacked a lot, leading us to a lot of 3 and outs, leading to a lot of short fields by the opposing team. Our defense didn't help that they weren't together yet so they couldn't get the ball back. But the fact that Wentz was leading in yards and TDs at one point showed that we could work with that offense, but we weren't winning. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

But what are our strengths? With a strong arm QB and a WR combo of Terry, Samuel and Doctson with Gibson and Thomas we could have an areal offense. Unfortunately our OL didn't support that. And what we saw was that in that type of offense he was getting sacked a lot, leading us to a lot of 3 and outs, leading to a lot of short fields by the opposing team. Our defense didn't help that they weren't together yet so they couldn't get the ball back. But the fact that Wentz was leading in yards and TDs at one point showed that we could work with that offense, but we weren't winning. 

 

Is this a real question? Or strength is our running game. Our running game then helps our passing game where our receivers can make plays. I don't think this is top secret. I think we tried to do it the opposite way earlier this season and it flat out didn't work. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Is this a real question? Or strength is our running game. Our running game then helps our passing game where our receivers can make plays. I don't think this is top secret. I think we tried to do it the opposite way earlier this season and it flat out didn't work. 

Today I'm not doubting that. In September I am asking this question. We had no Robinson and then Robinson coming back from a bullet wound. We had the guys I mentioned and the comeback victory in JAX. Its plausible to think we could win with a passing offense. Then Detroit, Philly and Dallas happened. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But what are our strengths? With a strong arm QB and a WR combo of Terry, Samuel and Doctson with Gibson and Thomas we could have an areal offense. Unfortunately our OL didn't support that. And what we saw was that in that type of offense he was getting sacked a lot, leading us to a lot of 3 and outs, leading to a lot of short fields by the opposing team. Our defense didn't help that they weren't together yet so they couldn't get the ball back. But the fact that Wentz was leading in yards and TDs at one point showed that we could work with that offense, but we weren't winning. 

 

Frank Reich was once seen as the Wentz whisper.  He brings out his best.  Some here goofed on him though here when we acquired Wentz saying him leaning so heavily on the run game didn't play to Wentz's strengths.  Instead, use him like we got Dan Marino, go heavy pass and let it fly.  

 

In retrospect maybe Reich is indeed the Wentz whisper and not a dummy about him as some here thought.  

 

You run the ball 40 times, it helps pass blocking, sets up play action better, etc.

 

Do I want Wentz to start.  I am thinking no right now because they are winning so don't mix it up.  But if Taylor bombs in a game coming up, I don't hate the idea of trying Wentz at all.  Now that they aren't losing their 2nd rounder I am much easier about them playing Wentz if they choose.  2 weeks ago, I was a hard no on it.

 

I'd add in cold weather, Taylor's noodle arm will be exposed even more.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

Today I'm not doubting that. In September I am asking this question. We had no Robinson and then Robinson coming back from a bullet wound. We had the guys I mentioned and the comeback victory in JAX. Its plausible to think we could win with a passing offense. Then Detroit, Philly and Dallas happened. 

 

It's not plausible to think you can win with a passing game with 3 IOL who are, quite frankly, awful. We didn't have any kind of good personnel on offense in that stretch. We were using Gibson poorly due to Robinson being out, we couldn't protect due to the IOL and our receivers couldn't touch the ball because Wentz was doing his Haynesworth interpretation. It's not some crazy puzzle to put together. It's all right in front of us for why things work and then they don't.

 

Nick Martin is perhaps the worst OL we've seen play for us in years. Years. And that's scary. 

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Part of me is curious too.

 

My three concerns about Wentz are:

 

A.  He seemed played with no tempo-oomph.  His body language seemed to match the flatness of the offense.

 

B.  Pocket presence taking sacks

 

C.  Not known for his play in big games and big spots -- and that's what we are about to undergo.

 

But can he hand off the ball 40 times and actually threaten a defense with going deep off of play action and make defenses pay?  You bet.  Heinicke doesn't have the arm talent to capitalize off of their run game.  Scott's (Norv's) defense is somewhat predicated on play-action where you use the run to set up the deep ball.  When Wentz was in the line up the run game wasn't humming.

 

Howell has the arm strength to capitalize off of the run game and unlike Wentz and Taylor he presents a run threat, too.  But I know its risky to roll the dice on a rookie in the middle of a playoff hunt.  

I agree but do not have any confidence in Turner holding to the current plan if Wentz is in...he would start calling for pass more and more, like BFS mentioned, the shiny new sports car theory. 

 

I do however think Turner would stick to the game plan with Howell due to concern over his inexperience. Call me intrigued with a Howell experience. I would love for this team to actually blow a team out for a change so he would have an opportunity to some playing time soon. 

[tmandoug1]

Would it be correct to say that Wentz has a strong arm but no touch/timing? I seem to remember him zipping **** at a 100 mph to receivers/backs on short routes. Missing completely on easy passes but being able to air it out to Jahan on some pretty nice plays. Not sure more time in the playbook fixes that does it? He had all of preseason to get things squared away. Maybe the staff recognizes his flaws can't be fixed. Just wierd to stick with "it", "moxie" because of a winning streak. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by tmandoug1

[Thinking Skins]

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

We saw what happened when they tried the rush heavy lean on the defense way to win games with Wentz against Dallas.  Scored 10 points on offense.  Was a 1 score game going into the fourth quarter.  

And even in that game when we started out running. 
Drive 1: 8 plays, but ends on a Wentz sack.

Drive 2: 3 and out after a hold by Nick Martin and a missed deep ball to Terry

Drive 3: 7 plays but ends after an intentional grounding by Wentz

Drive 4: Wentz TD

Drive 5: Wentz interception

 

Its not like Wentz was playing this stellar way. He was looking very similar to Heinicke right now. Sure he was doing more deep, but he was also missing more particularly underneath. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I agree but do not have any confidence in Turner holding to the current plan if Wentz is in...he would start calling for pass more and more, like BFS mentioned, the shiny new sports car theory. 

 

I do however think Turner would stick to the game plan with Howell due to concern over his inexperience. Call me intrigued with a Howell experience. I would love for this team to actually blow a team out for a change so he would have an opportunity to some playing time soon. 

 

I am not in the camp that Scott Turner is an idiot and I'd think he'd have to be if he didn't learn from what worked and didn't work this season including with Carson.  If we can see if from our couch, I figure he and I know his dad is very involved can see what we can and more. 

 

I talked about this before but what sold me on Scott last season was zeroing in on the run game when i was at the Vegas game.  And he had so much misdirection in it that it fooled my eyes over and over again.  The PFF guy was talking about the same thing this morning -- he's really good at setting up a run game that keeps the defense guessing. 

 

The run game is their strength.  I don't think Turner would go back to hey lets try again what we did against the Eagles in game 1.  I don't think BFS meant Turner would continue that route -- or maybe he did if so I'll let him clarify.  I think he meant that's clearly how they started.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Frank Reich was once seen as the Wentz whisper.  He brings out his best.  Some here goofed on him though here when we acquired Wentz saying him leaning so heavily on the run game didn't play to Wentz's strengths.  Instead, use him like we got Dan Marino, go heavy pass and let it fly.  

 

In retrospect maybe Reich is indeed the Wentz whisper and not a dummy about him as some here thought.  

 

You run the ball 40 times, it helps pass blocking, sets up play action better, etc.

 

Do I want Wentz to start.  I am thinking no right now because they are winning so don't mix it up.  But if Taylor bombs in a game coming up, I don't hate the idea of trying Wentz at all.  Now that they aren't losing their 2nd rounder I am much easier about them playing Wentz if they choose.  2 weeks ago, I was a hard no on it.

 

I'd add in cold weather, Taylor's noodle arm will be exposed even more.

 

I'm curious to know what a "Taylor bombs" looks like. Is it his ~200 yards, 2TD 1INT but with maybe 4 imperceptible passes and 2 missed throws? Because I'd be fine with that. 

If he has another stat line similar to Sunday I'm fine. 

If he has a Kirk Cousins circa 2014 where he threw 4 Ints against the Giants (albeit in comeback mode where he's heaving prayers) then I can see it, but just having no arm isn't enough for me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm curious to know what a "Taylor bombs" looks like. Is it his ~200 yards, 2TD 1INT but with maybe 4 imperceptible passes and 2 missed throws? Because I'd be fine with that. 

If he has another stat line similar to Sunday I'm fine. 

If he has a Kirk Cousins circa 2014 where he threw 4 Ints against the Giants (albeit in comeback mode where he's heaving prayers) then I can see it, but just having no arm isn't enough for me. 

 

Simplest way for me to put it is.

 

A.  The defense and run game are winning games for them.  Taylor is doing just enough not to screw that up.

 

bench him if

 

B. The defense and run game are winning games for them.  Taylor does just enough to screw that up.

 

I don't think he's played that hot of late in their wins.  Bram Weinstein the lead Heinicke Hive dude in the media even admits Heinicke isn't playing well lately.  So if lets say the opponent's defense instead of dropping his picks, catches them and these 4th quarter picks burn him like they did against Minnesota versus Eagles-Indy, then I'd consider benching him.

 

The cold weather coming up isn't going to help him.  And no sarcasm intended but the way Heinicke built up Dallas' defense last off season and the way he played against them give me the vibe he's intimidated by them and that's going to be a big game.

 

My main concern about Wentz and its a big one is the dude isn't known to play his best when the lights are brightest. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise