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The Official QB Thread- No Howell, No Way. Howell traded to the Seahawks. MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB1


Koolblue13

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This is why I'm in on the sit and prepare Sam Howell option. 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/sam-howell-nfl-draft-2022/d5bzace3f5rafuzzek5lwpk0

 

Why Sam Howell went from No. 1 overall favorite to likely Day 2 pick in 2022 NFL Draft

 

A few snippets 

 

Quote

 

What changed for Sam Howell between Years 2 and 3?


In short, everything.

 

Howell was surrounded by NFL-caliber talent during his first two years. In the backfield were Javonte Williams and Michael Carter, two 1,000-yard rushers. Wide receivers Dazz Newsome and Dyami Brown were two of the most dynamic playmakers in the ACC. All four of those players were selected in the 2021 NFL Draft.

 

Brown had to make adjustments. That meant taking Howell out of the pocket — and his element.

 

"Me running the ball was just something that we had success with," Howell told Breer. "So they came to me and asked if I was fine if it became a bigger part of the offense.”

 


 

Quote

 

What can Sam Howell bring to an NFL franchise?


There's a lot to like about Howell despite his uneven 2021 season. His touch on deep balls is a real strength, says USA Today's Natalie Miller. So are his intangibles, according to Breer. Although the Tar Heels toiled at times during Howell's final season, his willingness to commit to a different role — one that may have led to him dropping down draft boards — is a promising sign.

 

 

Young QB with a few years of starting at UNC. Some adversity. Perhaps unfairly drops many rounds. Now he gets at least a season of class room work. Probably running scout teams. Finally second string snaps for at least a month in practice. Then a full offseason? Give me that over a QB who might be available in the middle of the 1st round next year. Or over a now 3 years removed from really playing Trey Lance, a benched Zack Wilson. 

 

I'd roll with TH4 and Howell next year and use the draft and FA to rebuild the OL and ILB. 

 

Rookie QBs used to sit. Now (and not comparing) Mahomes sat his rookie year. Rodgers sat like 3 or 4 years. That **** can be valuable if the young player takes advantage of the opportunity to learn and practice. 

 

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3 hours ago, skinsfan93 said:


The guys who are so anti Taylor… please it’s getting real old!  We get it you don’t like the guy. Fine. It’s almost like you are rooting for losses to justify your hatred for him. Is that fan?
 

We are who we are in the famous words of Dennis Green. Can we just move on?

Dude, you've been one of the worst. You've been close to a temp ban for a half dozen posts, at least, over yesterday and today alone.

 

You're essentially trolling half the time with call-out comments that only have the intent to incite posters who are more critical of heinie.

 

I could go on about your posting but I'll leave it with the notice that I am going to start hitting you with a rule 12 violation every time you feel a need to go on past simply stating your own takes and going after others for not being as enamored of Taylor as you, even if they're downright critical of him in credible manner.

 

I don't care who here is an outright henie humper or an outright heinie loather, if you're spending energy repeatedly trying to mock or bait a hiver or a hater, be prepared for a layoff.

 

This constant sniping and the ridiculous football "arguments" that get made---pro or con, tho I see notably more pro---really dumb down the dialogue.

 

Several of the more "extreme" critics and several of the more "extreme" boosters (remember the name of this site?) manage to do their thing without trying to bait "the other side" into flame wars. Emulate them.

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My #1 concern with Taylor is turnovers.  Hopefully he keeps that at bay.  I think we can make the playoffs at this pace but if there is one thing that derails this IMO is a multi-turnover game from Taylor.  Fingers crossed.  It's a good point below as to the context of next year.  Can we win without great QB play?  Probably.  But not if we give up too many turnovers.  A big part of this team surge is this defense is creating turnovers and we are winning the turonver battle and that needs to hold IMO.  

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My #1 concern with Taylor is turnovers.  Hopefully he keeps that at bay.  I think we can make the playoffs at this pace but if there is one thing that derails this IMO is a multi-turnover game from Taylor.  Fingers crossed.  It's a good point below as to the context of next year.  Can we win without great QB play?  Probably.  But not if we give up too many turnovers.  A big part of this team surge is this defense is creating turnovers and we are winning the turonver battle and that needs to hold IMO.  

 

His numbers are wrong, Heinicke is 28th in INT%.  I think this is the kind of an inherently unstable, small sample stat though, where one less pick and his INT% jumps up better than Aaron Rodgers's or Josh Allen's.

 

Picks are going to happen for every NFL QB.  The coverage is too good to totally avoid mistakes when throwing the ball beyond the line of scrimmage.  They will fool you from time to time.  As a whole, I think Heinicke's game management has been the single biggest strength he's brought to the team, and it's why we are winning with him and couldn't with anyone else.  He and Scott Taylor are making lemonade from lemons.

 

This OL has been dog**** this season, and I don't think people are appreciating what a challenge it has been for him to operate behind such a bad line.  We saw the total dysfunction when Wentz was back there because he couldn't operate the passing game behind them.  But it's like we forgot that the line sucks and it's awful to play QB in this system with that line because Heinicke has managed to keep his head above water.  I'm not being hyperbolic, Heinicke's pressure % is sixth worst in the NFL this year, 24.6%.  That's pressure on every fourth drop.  The guys who are ahead of him have either been benched (Zach Wilson and Davis Mills), have been bailing on their pockets and scrambling (Justin Fields and Daniel Jones), or have just been flat out bad and losing (Russell Wilson).  Heinicke has been managing by getting the ball out super fast--second shortest time in the pocket behind Brady, and grouped with a bunch of other QBs who are facing way less pressure than him.  He's keeping our season alive and covering for a terrible OL by making hyperfast reads and decisions and there are going to be times he gets fooled and throws picks.

 

The line isn't run blocking well either by the way.  They've been one of the worst in the NFL at that too--Gibby and BRob are two of the lowest in the NFL at yards before contact too with 2.2 and 2.3 respectively (43rd and 44th in the NFL).  The line is blocking for two yards per rush and Gibby and BRob have been getting the other one and a half yards.  We've had the luxury of sticking with a brutally inefficient run game because our backs are huge dudes with workhorse ability and our defense has been so dominant that they keep getting us the ball back and have kept us from falling into big holes.  That and Heinicke has been clutch on third downs.  And the one saving grace of the OL has been that they haven't gotten a lot of penalties.

 

You're not going to see powerful or efficient offense with a bottom of the league offensive line.  There is no premium talent in the group whatsoever when Cosmi is out with injury.  That's why they suck.  The best you can hope for under the circumstances is a durable ground game and a QB who can hang tough and skillfully bail water and provide some functionality and chain moving, and that's what Heinicke has done.  That's why the team has rallied behind him and appreciates him so much.

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1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

His numbers are wrong, Heinicke is 28th in INT%.  I think this is the kind of an inherently unstable, small sample stat though, where one less pick and his INT% jumps up better than Aaron Rodgers's or Josh Allen's.

 

 

I don't know if 28th is some sort of save of Taylor.

 

I don't think it escapes people that Taylor's main plot line is his mobility in the pocket helps with this porous O line.  it's why i'd take him over Wentz with the current context of the team.  As you know on the draft thread i am O line, O line, O line. 

 

Do I think Heinicke is a good QB?  Nope. Not even close.  But i do think his mobility gives him an edge over Wentz within the context of this team.

 

I think the team likes him primarily because he's a super cool dude.  I don't mean that sarcastically.  I do think its valuable to have a social animal as your QB.  My wife for example is a Giants fan but she puts up with me playing Commanders media stuff during the week and its often something Heinicke related.  Heinicke is a fun watch as for his interviews.  My wife doesn't fear him as a player as a Giants fan but she really likes him.  Hard not to like Taylor.  He's a natural leader and cool dude IMO. 

 

Not sure what metric the tweet I posted used. I know PFF ranks Taylor high in a bad way in the number if interceptable plays.  I hate how PFF throws every player in the soup regardless of sample size.    But yeah i don't think we need to see stats to know Taylor isn't Mr. Accurate and that includes throwing balls in harms way.  But I don't disagree with your point that this O line makes it harder so give him props for that. 

Screen Shot 2022-11-28 at 7.03.01 PM.png

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1 hour ago, @DCGoldPants said:

This is why I'm in on the sit and prepare Sam Howell option. 

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/sam-howell-nfl-draft-2022/d5bzace3f5rafuzzek5lwpk0

 

Why Sam Howell went from No. 1 overall favorite to likely Day 2 pick in 2022 NFL Draft

 

A few snippets 

 

Young QB with a few years of starting at UNC. Some adversity. Perhaps unfairly drops many rounds. Now he gets at least a season of class room work. Probably running scout teams. Finally second string snaps for at least a month in practice. Then a full offseason? Give me that over a QB who might be available in the middle of the 1st round next year. Or over a now 3 years removed from really playing Trey Lance, a benched Zack Wilson. 

 

I'd roll with TH4 and Howell next year and use the draft and FA to rebuild the OL and ILB. 

 

Rookie QBs used to sit. Now (and not comparing) Mahomes sat his rookie year. Rodgers sat like 3 or 4 years. That **** can be valuable if the young player takes advantage of the opportunity to learn and practice. 

 

 

Only the coaches who get to see Howell in practice and in the meeting rooms can judge whether he'll be ready to compete for the starting job next year. We'd all love for him to be the answer but we as fans are not going to have the information to make that judgment with any sort of credibility.

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4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

 

Only the coaches who get to see Howell in practice and in the meeting rooms can judge whether he'll be ready to compete for the starting job next year. We'd all love for him to be the answer but we as fans are not going to have the information to make that judgment with any sort of credibility.

 

Thier opinion of him being ready or not is directly correlated with thier need for him to be ready. I promise you if both Carson and Taylor were injured they would be talking about how they are happy to have 3 QBs that are ready to go. They love what Howell can bring. He will make mistakes but he is "ready". 🙂  And why not. No reason to throw him out there and say: Well he really has no chance and does not know the first thing abotu the playbook but we are giving him a go anyway...  LOL  

 

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not sure what metric the tweet I posted used. I know PFF ranks Taylor high in a bad way in the number if interceptable plays.  I hate how PFF throws every play in the soup regardless of sample size.    But yeah i don't think we need to see stats to know Taylor isn't Mr. Accurate and that includes throwing balls in harms way.  But I don't disagree with your point that this O line makes it harder so give him props for that. 

 

I keep waiting for his errant throws to catch up to him. But so far he has a horse shoe up his ass and an awful lot of passes that should be picked fall harmlessly to the ground. It's part of his charm 🙂  But that horse show will run out. And no Hivers I am not rooting for it to happen. I have been quite vocal that I am enjoying this ride for as long as it goes. But there is a simple reality that the competition is about to get better. Fair enough, the team has beaten who they should and a team they probably shouldn't have. But this next stretch of 5 gms is legit. The only team with a losing record is Clevland who should have a very angry and healthy Deshaun Watson. 49ers are legit PO team and th Giants are not only division rivals they are in the PO hunt too. And who knows what we get from Dallas on the last game of the season but they are playing really well with Dak or the other guy.

 

If they can win 3 of the next 5 that has to be considered a major success. Split with the Giants, win one of 49ers and Clev and beat Dallas. Giants will be tough. They will do to us what we have been doing to other teams but with a better QB,. I am no Daniel Jones fan but he has a legit NFL arm and can make all the throws. When he keeps the TOs down he can win ballgames. And Barkley is playing his best ball in several years. Thier D is also very good but I think we are little bit better.

 

49ers are just better than us. Not saying that gives them the game but they are better in ever spot except maybe the defensive front 7 but it's not a big margin. And I like our WR group but so far TH has not been able to capitalize on that and I don't see that changing. Clev is a mystery. They could really be a different team with Watson. But will all his time off be too much? I have seen it take a year or so for someone missing that much time to get back to form, if they ever do. Dallas is the best offense we will face and it's not close, even with a top level Watson. Thier D is legit too but we are a little better. But they may be resting people by then.

 

Didn't mean to go off an that tangent but it matters for the QB discussion. The point is TH can't put the ball in harms way as much or it will get picked. And the teams coming up have enough offense to make us pay. I would not be surprised by either 4-1 or 1-4. Most likely something in between. Anything except 1-4 and barring injury Taylor finishes the season as the starter and rightfully so. Again if they pull TH or he gets injured, I would like to see Howell even with the POs on the line but I don't make the decision. It will be Wentz. That will be an interesting ride in more ways than one ...  🙂 

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6 hours ago, NickyJ said:

No, then we'd be just another acid trip away.

I was tripping my face off the last SB we won and I swear to God,  Rypien said, even before the obligatory Disney line, "what a long strange trip it's been " 

That happened...I think although the giant pterodactyls perched on the goalposts were likely imagined. 

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27 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

How is the turnover worthy percentage calculated?   If he gets hit and throws an INT or near INT, does that go against him?   

 

What about pass rush pressure generally vs no pressure?    Those bad passes can't be viewed the same.  

There should be a lucky mf'er stat. Esoteric yes but I bet Taylor tops the list and that counts for something 

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53 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

If they can win 3 of the next 5 that has to be considered a major success. Split with the Giants, win one of 49ers and Clev and beat Dallas. Giants will be tough. They will do to us what we have been doing to other teams but with a better QB,. I am no Daniel Jones fan but he has a legit NFL arm and can make all the throws. When he keeps the TOs down he can win ballgames. And Barkley is playing his best ball in several years. Thier D is also very good but I think we are little bit better.

 

49ers are just better than us. Not saying that gives them the game but they are better in ever spot except maybe the defensive front 7 but it's not a big margin. And I like our WR group but so far TH has not been able to capitalize on that and I don't see that changing. Clev is a mystery. They could really be a different team with Watson. But will all his time off be too much? I have seen it take a year or so for someone missing that much time to get back to form, if they ever do. Dallas is the best offense we will face and it's not close, even with a top level Watson. Thier D is legit too but we are a little better. But they may be resting people by then.

 

Didn't mean to go off an that tangent but it matters for the QB discussion. The point is TH can't put the ball in harms way as much or it will get picked. And the teams coming up have enough offense to make us pay. I would not be surprised by either 4-1 or 1-4. Most likely something in between. Anything except 1-4 and barring injury Taylor finishes the season as the starter and rightfully so. Again if they pull TH or he gets injured, I would like to see Howell even with the POs on the line but I don't make the decision. It will be Wentz. That will be an interesting ride in more ways than one ...  🙂 

 

Agree.  the next 5 games is one heck of a test.  I think SF is distinctly better than us, Dallas too.  Heinicke seemed overwhelmed by Dallas last year and the way he talked up their defense you'd think he thinks they are the 85 Bears.

 

His magic might run out.  Agree he's playing with fire.

 

Daniel Jones IMO is more accurate, has a stronger arm and is a much bigger run threat than Taylor.  And I am not a Jones guy so to speak.  I think Taylor is the better leader and is more clutch.  That one is going to be really interesting.  

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3 hours ago, dunfer said:

dallas did it. Id bet majority of coaches that had their starter go down to injury and replaced him with the backup did it

 

I said the same when he got hurt that Ron can't put him back on after he is healthy. So that should tell you what Ron thinks of Wentz instead. Quite telling. 

 

6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Nah, we’d just convert to the “well, if Dilfer can do it, why not us?” side and be happy about it.

 

And yes, I’d still want to move on like BMore did. 😂 

 

 

 

In the offseason I actually said that with a stout D we can win the Taylor like the Ravens did back in 2000. I remember they won one of their game on kicking only. Trent couldn't even get a TD in that game. But hey we got moxie so there is always that lol

 

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I think I would be perfectly satisfied going into next year with TH and Howell competing for the starting job.

 

The only QB in the draft I would take over Howell is Young and We're not getting him.   Not overly impressed with the others.

 

The FA market isn't great.   Baker, Darnold, Jimmy G and Brissett.  

 

Rodgers?  Carr?  

 

I'm not seeing a ton of options.   Also, it's not about just finding someone better, it's also about the cap.   TH at 5 mil or so is much better value than many others at much higher rates, even though those QB's are better.  

 

 

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Anyone thought maybe we close this thread? Same **** on the game day threads, the day after threads, the extension thread, the draft thread, the FA tracker thread and the all things offense thread.  Hard to track the threads that have the same conversations over and over and over. Maybe we have an Official QB thread when we have an actual QB? Just a late night thought.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Anyone thought maybe we close this thread? Same **** on the game day threads, the day after threads, the extension thread, the draft thread, the FA tracker thread and the all things offense thread.  Hard to track the threads that have the same conversations over and over and over. Maybe we have an Official QB thread when we have an actual QB? Just a late night thought.

 

 

 

DD54E672-3F05-41C5-872B-95BEBBB6F5F0.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Anyone thought maybe we close this thread? Same **** on the game day threads, the day after threads, the extension thread, the draft thread, the FA tracker thread and the all things offense thread.  Hard to track the threads that have the same conversations over and over and over. Maybe we have an Official QB thread when we have an actual QB? Just a late night thought.

 

 

Maybe we should just have no threads at all?

 

The One Where Estelle Dies Episode 15 GIF by Friends

 

 

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15 hours ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

I think Green Bay with Jordan Love proved why you let Howell sit and learn before you unleash him. Love looked pedestrian his rookie year in the limited time he saw. But yesterday he looked pretty dam awesome and the narratives mentioned said they'd seen huge progression from y1 to today... 

 

I hear you, but Love has been in the oven for longer then we have time to pick who the starter is for 2023. 

 

Love was drafted in 2020, he's been sitting for multiple season, different timeline then would be most useful to us going into this offseason with a who's the starter conversation.

 

Not saying you want him to be the starter in 2023, but I believe everyone is on the same page on keeping him on the roster and him only being a backup not being helpful to who the 2023 starter is.

 

@tmandoug1 I get your point on closing the thread and hope theres a new one specific to who the 2023 starter should be when the season is over.

Edited by Renegade7
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I'm not saying Howell will be the guy or even should get a chance at the job. I'm saying I'd like to find out before investing an early round pick on a QB instead of a much needed OL or ILB. 

 

Say UNC didn't lose a bunch of weapons after 2020 and Howell was still picked on day 1, but then still sat for a year. We'd probably feel differently about if he should get a shot at the job going into 2023. Not hearing anything about him all year feels like he's doing what they ask which probably isn't a lot. This offseason is his opportunity to put in the work and give himself a shot after OTAs and Minicamp 

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I hate to say it because it is kind of sad but perhaps this team would have been fine with Kenny Pickett going into next year. The guy has maybe Derek Carr level upside but if he can be an average starter in Year 2 in a run heavy scheme, you could mask his deficiencies and make a run with a guy on a rookie contract

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5 minutes ago, method man said:

I hate to say it because it is kind of sad but perhaps this team would have been fine with Kenny Pickett going into next year. The guy has maybe Derek Carr level upside but if he can be an average starter in Year 2 in a run heavy scheme, you could mask his deficiencies and make a run with a guy on a rookie contract

 

Howell is better than Pickett. Sam has a stronger arm, better mobility and can take hits.

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