The Official QB Thread- No Howell, No Way. Howell traded to the Seahawks. MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB1

[philibusters]

In terms of Tua being a dink and dunk type QB, its probably true, but you can win that way.  Alex Smith is evidence of that.  Also the fact that Tua was 6-3 as a starter his rookie year is evidence.  With Tua you are looking at a mixed bag of evidence.  You have a low QBR, but his rookie PFF rating was higher than 4 out of 5 of the rookie first rounders this year (higher than Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields--not as high as Mac Jones).  There is the high completion percentage, good TD to Int ratio, and winning record on the one hand and on the other hand there is the low yards per attempt, low QBR, and benching for Fitzpatrick on the other hand.   So you end basically taking in that evidence and try to compare to draft prospects who really don't have any NFL evidence and try to make a decision.

[Leonard Washington]

The team has to keep trying players until they find a winner.  While TH probably won't work out, but it should still be marked down as a win for finding a guy off the street who could compete. 

 

We don't need a guy top measurables.  We need a durable player with good accuracy and decision making.  We basically need Kirk Cousins without the elite salary.

[philibusters]

One of the interesting things was teh Dolphins taking Jaylen Waddle.   Tua is their QB and he likes to play possession ball in the Alex Smith mold of keep the chains moving.   You can grab Devonta Smith is an elite possession receiver but instead they go for the guy who can stretch the field in Waddle but is a less complete WR.  Maybe they were trying to get someone to stretch the field for Tua, but on the other hand, it does seem like they drafted the wrong WR for Tua.   I think Miami wasted a first rounder picking up.  As somebody pointed out they traded up a month before the draft so they didn't know who was going to be available, but I feel like if they wanted Waddle they probably could have got him without trading up which would give them another first rounder to trade with Houston now.

 

Trading up well before draft day seems dangerous.  I am not convinced the 49'ers really had a strong preference for Lance over Mac Jones.   They could have stayed put and got Mac Jones without trading up.  Instead they ended up using three first rounderes on Lance.    Same with the Dolphins.   At least last year, the lesson is don't trade up before the draft.   You can also trade up on draft day like the Bears did to grab Justin Fields.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think you need a 2nd for Tua or a third and change kind of like the Rosen and Darnold deals.   If I paid just a third for Tua, I wouldn't hate it, as a flier.  I wouldn't be excited either but wouldn't hate it.  I'd be indifferent. 

 

Do I think he would fail?  Yes probably in the context of him becoming an upper half QB.  If I had to guess now, I think he will survive in the league as a lower tier starter, high end backup.  I see Sheehan disagreeing on air about Tua having a weak arm, IMO he's somewhat wrong.  Compared to Heinicke, Tua indeed does have a better arm.  His throws don't float like Heinicke. But his arm strength to me looks below average,   Sheehan who loved Darnold, thought Trask > Mac Jones, so I am not always on the same page with him though I agreed with him about Stafford.  However, I get Sheehan's point of just keep swinging until you get it right.  But a 2nd rounder this year could be a top 40 pick, that's a steep price for a flier.   

 

I didn't realy think about it much until last night but it hit me why did I like watching Tua throw at Alabama but not in Miami?  To me i do think that major hip injury effected him. As an example, my kid right now as a better arm than I do so when I toss the football around, he enjoys going as deep as possible when we play catch and watches to see if I can match him.  I often can match him but it looks like I am putting every ounce of my body to get the ball out to him versus my son who can just flick it to me without much effort.  That's how Tua looks to me at times.  He has to put his whole body into throws to get velocity on them.  I don't recall that at Alabama.  It can be part of the reason why he's such a dink and dunk QB in the pros. 

 

If that is a temporary thing that is a function of him healing from that injury, maybe I'd buy in.  But if that's him now, while I don't hate it, he's not any player I get excited about.  The reason why I wouldn't hate it like I did with the talk about trading for Rosen and Darnold is Tua to my eyes doesn't have their fatal flaw which is IMO poor decision making.  Tua from what I've seen is not a bad decision maker like IMO Rosen and Darnold are. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If we have a chance at Tu’a for a third, and get a trial for at least 6-8 games this season and we pass…

 

I’m willing to bet we strike out again in the offseason.

I could easily see striking out in the offseason unless the team, especially the defense doesn't start playing like last year. Their play gave some motivation to FA's regarding this team.

 

If we got Tua for a 3rd and he played...ok which is all we could really expect, you are going to look to another top draft pick. I Fitz were healthy and want to play next year, I doubt he'd want to be battling Tua again.

 

I am so on the fence about Tua. RR desires a good consistent starter and Tua's injury history sets off so many red flags

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

I could easily see striking out in the offseason unless the team, especially the defense doesn't start playing like last year. Their play gave some motivation to FA's regarding this team.

 

If we got Tua for a 3rd and he played...ok which is all we could really expect, you are going to look to another top draft pick. I Fitz were healthy and want to play next year, I doubt he'd want to be battling Tua again.

 

I am so on the fence about Tua. RR desires a good consistent starter and Tua's injury history sets off so many red flags

 

Fitz may be done anyways.

 

A third rounder for a high talent rookie deal QB prospect.

 

I just don't see the logic in passing on it IF THAT IS THE PRICE. Caps for emphasis on my take.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Fitz may be done anyways.

 

A third rounder for a high talent rookie deal QB prospect.

 

I just don't see the logic in passing on it IF THAT IS THE PRICE. Caps for emphasis on my take.

Understood, a 3rd isn't bad for the potential.

I am trying to think out what other QB would you need. Do you believe enough in a combo of TH and Tua for next year? Or if you have a shot as we should in the 1st, do you take it or need to move up to get one.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

Understood, a 3rd isn't bad for the potential.

I am trying to think out what other QB would you need. Do you believe enough in a combo of TH and Tua for next year? Or if you have a shot as we should in the 1st, do you take it or need to move up to get one.

 

I think you see what happens. If there is an opportunity at a much better quarterback you don't pass on it unless Tu'a comes here and lights the league on fire (which I doubt).

 

But if you can get Tu'a for a third you have a NFL QB on the roster on a rookie deal. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, philibusters said:

In terms of Tua being a dink and dunk type QB, its probably true, but you can win that way.  Alex Smith is evidence of that.  Also the fact that Tua was 6-3 as a starter his rookie year is evidence.  With Tua you are looking at a mixed bag of evidence.  You have a low QBR, but his rookie PFF rating was higher than 4 out of 5 of the rookie first rounders this year (higher than Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, and Fields--not as high as Mac Jones).  There is the high completion percentage, good TD to Int ratio, and winning record on the one hand and on the other hand there is the low yards per attempt, low QBR, and benching for Fitzpatrick on the other hand.   So you end basically taking in that evidence and try to compare to draft prospects who really don't have any NFL evidence and try to make a decision.

 

Alex though could fling it if he wants to.  I didn't see him as weak armed.  I got my doubts that Tua could fling it the same way.   Miami had a good year last year.  Tua just lost to winless Jacksonville, playing one of his best games in the pros.  I don't put much stock in his W-L record in a short sample. 

 

For me the main thing about QBs is just watching them.  I've seen plenty of Tua including see him play multiple times both in college and the pros.   My kid is an Alabama fan so we'd catch almost all of the times they play in Florida which is typically a game a year but usually two.   If I had to pick one thing that's much easier to see in person than on TV is velocity.  It's part of the reason why I defended Mac Jones' arm velocity for some who questioned it last off season.   When you are at a game you can typically see it better than you can on TV.

 

So good or bad numbers don't sway me about Tua.  You can use numbers to argue him either way IMO.   But he's a dude I've watched a lot.  He was one of my favorite college players of all time.  Love the guy and the story behind him.  So my predisposition is to be pro-Tua.  But IMO he's not the same dude that he was in Alabama from what I've seen.  But again, i am a layperson.  That's just my amateur opinion.  But for me all I got is my opinion so I am sticking with it for now.

 

I wouldn't hate Tua for a third rounder.  I wouldn't love it either.  The big mystery for me about Tua is are their concerns about his hip surgery?  If so, is that supposed to get better?  At a minimum I'd want to see if he could follow up that Jacksonville performance with another one.   They are playing Atlanta so that shouldn't be too tough. 

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think you see what happens. If there is an opportunity at a much better quarterback you don't pass on it unless Tu'a comes here and lights the league on fire (which I doubt).

 

But if you can get Tu'a for a third you have a NFL QB on the roster on a rookie deal. 

I do not trade a 2nd for Tua, a 3rd is much more appetizing. I don't love him but would feel better with him on the roster going into next season. I hated the foraging last offseason for a QB  

[Koolblue13]

Outside of the big 3, I'm wondering what the secondary market will have.

 

Jimmy G

Trubyski

Mariotta

Ryan

Tyrod Taylor

Bridgewater

Brissett

Winston

Tayson Hill

Foles

Dalton

Flacco

Gabbert

 

Should all be available through FA or Trade.

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Outside of the big 3, I'm wondering what the secondary market will have.

 

Jimmy G

Trubyski

Mariotta

Ryan

Tyrod Taylor

Bridgewater

Brissett

Winston

Tayson Hill

Foles

Dalton

Flacco

Gabbert

 

Should all be available through FA or Trade.

 

 

I doubt NO releases it's top 2 QBs.

 

Jimmy G, Trubisky, Mariotta, Bridgewater, Brissett are the only names on that list that are semi intriguing.

 

If people are concerned with Tua's injuries they should be terrified of Jimmy G.

 

Bridgewater and Trubisky are okay stop gap options but that's about it.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I doubt NO releases it's top 2 QBs.

 

Jimmy G, Trubisky, Mariotta, Bridgewater, Brissett are the only names on that list that are semi intriguing.

 

If people are concerned with Tua's injuries they should be terrified of Jimmy G.

 

Bridgewater and Trubisky are okay stop gap options but that's about it.

I doubt they release both their QB also, but they're poised to be FAs right now, so they made that list.

 

Trubyski has had success before getting beat by bad coaching. Having sat a year on Rons buddies led team, he could be poised to make a solid come back and really the 1A on this list IMO

 

Mariotta would be my 2A and the rest not even the B list.

[theTruthTeller]

I love threads where no one is quite good enough to be the WFT quarterback.

[KDawg]

Just now, theTruthTeller said:

I love threads where no one is quite good enough to be the WFT quarterback.

 

I'd take any of the top 6 names on that list over what we have now. I don't love them. But I'd take them.

 

Trubisky is the guy I'd be most intrigued with as a potential long term solution.

 

I like Tu'a better than all of them. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

I love threads where no one is quite good enough to be the WFT quarterback.

 

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Trubyski has had success before getting beat by bad coaching. Having sat a year on Rons buddies led team, he could be poised to make a solid come back and really the 1A on this list IMO

I agree that Mitch's time in Buffalo will make him more intriguing to RR and he is young and has all the tools. I believe he will be there top target.

 

After him it's got to be Bridgewater and Carr is available. 

 

After them is more ehh, I go Mariotta and Brissett. Still wish they looked into Brissett last year so they could have had a possible starter for more than one year. Then looked to the draft this year.

 

[SemperFi Skins]

Are people seriously trying to convince themselves to fall for Tua? An overrated, injury prone QB who was benched 3x for a guy who sits on our IR and is already on the block after being drafted last year..... Wild! 

 

We don't and shouldn't settle for a consolation prize. Watson is the prize, if anything. Otherwise, draft our own. Tua meet Rosen, Rosen meet Tua. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Are people seriously trying to convince themselves to fall for Tua? An overrated, injury prone QB who was benched 3x for a guy who sits on our IR and is already on the block after being drafted last year..... Wild! 

 

We don't and shouldn't settle for a consolation prize. Watson is the prize, if anything. Otherwise, draft our own. Tua meet Rosen, Rosen meet Tua. 

 

Tua for a third. That's hardly falling for him. It's a measured bet.

 

Watson... to a team with a major scandal involving women and dealing with awful PR... Wild.

[SemperFi Skins]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

Tua for a third. That's hardly falling for him. It's a measured bet.

 

Watson... to a team with a major scandal involving women and dealing with awful PR... Wild.

 

Oh I agree 100% on Watson, my point being he's clearly the better talent and is proven. We've done enough measured bets, and our IR room is always full.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

Oh I agree 100% on Watson, my point being he's clearly the better talent and is proven. We've done enough measured bets, and our IR room is always full.

 

No one is debating his talent level. If they are they've lost it. Watson is a top 5, 10 at worst, talent in the league.

[Koolblue13]

When your team has been going through a half decade long sexual harassment scandal, bringing in the sexual harassment QB is not a good look. There is zero chance we're in the Watson running. Especially with the eagles sitting on 3 top 10 picks.

[HigSkin]

 

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

When your team has been going through a half decade long sexual harassment scandal, bringing in the sexual harassment QB is not a good look. There is zero chance we're in the Watson running. Especially with the eagles sitting on 3 top 10 picks.

 

He also has a no trade clause, so he gets to pick where he goes. I think there's about a .00001% chance that we're on his list.

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

He also has a no trade clause, so he gets to pick where he goes. I think there's about a .00001% chance that we're on his list.

Maybe it'll be a selling point for him.

 

*ducks and runs away*