The Official QB Thread- No Howell, No Way. Howell traded to the Seahawks. MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB1

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

9 hours ago, Wyvern said:

The Eagles game in which Sanchez appeared was on Dec 3, 2018, due to an injury to McCoy, who was subbing for an injured Alex Smith.   Sanchez didn't do much and they lost to the Wentz-led Eagles  13-28.  Since Mark was the only Skins QB left (they did bring  in Josh Johnson around mid-week) Gruden pencilled in Sanchez as the starter for the Dec. 9th game vs. the Giants.

 

Versus the Giants, Sanchez was even more ineffective: 6 of 14 for 38 yards with two interceptions, and didn't have a completion longer than 10 yards. He was sacked five times behind a patchwork offensive line.  Gruden pulled the plug on Sanchez with 5 1/2 minutes remaining in the third quarter, replacing him with Johnson. Redskins lost 40-16, their fourth loss in a row.

 

I recall he looked like the worst QB I have ever seen. Saying he was bad doesn't do his level of poor play justice. He looked like he was completely unfamiliar with the concept of quarterback and throwing the ball.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[wit33]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So your point if I follow it, its BS when agents tell reporters or it gets leaked later that such and such player didn't want to go to Washington.  You think this is where the top players and coaches indeed want to go because ultimately they will be overpaid and or coddled?

 

 I believe what agents at times share is BS. 
Free agents choose Washington all the time. The bigger time free agents are vying to be a top 6 paid guy on a roster and will seek that wherever that’s at. Money and opportunity. 

Weaker franchises often win in free agency, is this not something you agree with? Washington did this for most Dans first 10-15 years. The free agent will go where the money is. 
 

Veterans seeking a 3rd or 4th contract will seek winning situations, but has nothing to do with the franchise historically, everything to do with the current status of that team. The 10 year vet plus certainly falls in line what you seem to claim about free agents and their desires to go to a team with good owner (young guys don’t care, they need to secure wealth). 
 

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 The way the whole cash flow argument started is when Standig and then other reporters got the sense (part of it was from Rivera's own comments) that Dan gave them a budget and Wentz basically ate almost all of it.

 

I took comments as him wanting to be mindful in free agency to be able to retain their own and continue to build.  
 

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Yeah cash flow can impact things including the timing.  As Mike Lombardi said the owners who rely more on the team as their income source (versus some like Kronecke who have plenty of outside income) care about when they get money from the league, the league money comes in increments.  So some owners wait for those increments and it effects decisions.  

 

You act like Dan's finances and the Commanders finances have nothing to do with each other.  

If we look over the last 10 years are you saying Washington will have spent less towards the cap than most or some? To be honest, the cap numbers may strengthen your position, this isn’t something I know not to be true. 
 

The cap number serves as truth for me.

 

I don’t really have a strong position just not seeing any real data or information to support there’s some sort of competitive disadvantage taking place with how or how much Washington is managing spending relating to the hard cap. 

4 hours ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

Similar to a comp pick once received here for a QB  

Edited February 8, 2023 by wit33

[KDawg]

There is real data that Snyder’s cash flow is effecting Washington. 
 

We aren’t getting high end free agents from outside the team. 
 

You think Ron is saying, “hey, let’s pass on all the possible quality and go for low cost vets!”

 

You think Washington’s facilities are up to snuff? (They are the worst in the League).

 

The team that spent the most money in the league with cash over cap thoughts early in the tenure has suddenly just stopped that philosophy.

 

Your head is buried so deep in the sand it’s frustrating to even read the posts.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 I believe what agents at times share is BS. 
Free agents choose Washington all the time. The bigger time free agents are vying to be a top 6 paid guy on a roster and will seek that wherever that’s at. Money and opportunity. 

Weaker franchises often win in free agency, is this not something you agree with? Washington did this for most Dans first 10-15 years. The free agent will go where the money is. 

 

 

I think you are in your own orbit on this stuff, if you think players with options everything being equal want to come to this place.  I can't think of anyone else on the board purporting the same thing. 

 

So the scandals, the crap faciities and crap stadium, empty stadium, no home field advantage, the losing culture, established bad owner -- its all one big shrug from name that coach with options or player with options.   This if anything is where they'd want to be. 

 

Yeah every team ends up signing some players, sure.  But big players with options don't covet coming here, clearly.  It's worse now than years past for obvious reasons.   It's been a steady decline.

 

There is a reason why you don't hear it leaked that players like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers wanted to come here and instead others teams are mentioned.  And I seriously doubt its because this is the secret place that these dudes want to go to but their agents for whatever reason don't want to let that on to the league. 

 

Among other things either Logan Paulsen is a liar or if he's telling the truth when he said he's talked to people in that FO and they know that this isn't where players want to go and they have to do extra things to try to overcome that but its not easy -- sounds like they need a pep talk from you to learn their concerns are completely unfounded.

 

 

7 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

Similar to a comp pick once received here for a QB  

 

Speaking of no one else on the board purporting the same thing.

 

The fact that Jay Gruden flat out said they got offered a first and change.  And Mike Jones said he heard it directly from Shanny -- not later in retrospect but in real time.  And yet you still argue this as if its a debate -- all I can say is lol.  

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I must admit, @wit33’s desert island takes often times make me wonder if he actually believes in the stuff he’s saying or if it’s just debating for the sake of debating, rather than conceding.

 

We’ve long seen conspiracy theories here, which I guess is a hallmark of a bad team’s fanbase.  But it’s wild to watch the stuff you will file under ‘agent shenanigans’ even when there are a variety of people reporting the same stuff with added layers. 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[HigSkin]

Richardson is intriguing for sure...

 

 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

34 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Richardson is intriguing for sure...

 

 

The guy didn't have a touchdown pass until his fourth game against a porous Tennessee defense.

 

Pass.

[HigSkin]

6 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

The guy didn't have a touchdown pass until his fourth game against a porous Tennessee defense.

 

Pass.

 

Whoever drafts him is taking him as a project and based on his athleticism but he is intriguing.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by HigSkin

[Tress Is The Way]

47 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Richardson is intriguing for sure...

 

 

His 2022 season was pretty pedestrian. Only 17TDs, and 9 INTs  with 7.7 yards per attempt? 53% completion?

 

He may be a freak of an athlete but his weaknesses are very glaring. His mechanics are not good, he isn't good at pre snap reads, and he's inaccurate.

 

Being said, he also only had 66 passes prior to this past season. He is in the mold of Haskins (may he rest in peace).

 

Pass.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Tress Is The Way

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Tress Is The Way said:

His 2022 season was pretty pedestrian. Only 17TDs, and 9 INTs  with 7.7 yards per attempt? 53% completion?

 

He may be a freak of an athlete but his weaknesses are very glaring. His mechanics are not good, he isn't good at pre snap reads, and he's inaccurate.

 

Pass.

 

 

 

 

 

Numbers going across are: Class, Position, Games, Completions, Attempts, Comp %, Yards, Yards/Attempt, Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt, TD, INT, Rating.

 

Can you guess who each belongs to?

 

 

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

7 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Whoever drafts him is taking him as a project and based on his athleticism but he is intriguing.

 

 

He has Malik Willis bust written all over him. I just hope it ain't this team.

[Tress Is The Way]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

 

 

Numbers going across are: Class, Position, Games, Completions, Attempts, Comp %, Yards, Yards/Attempt, Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt, TD, INT, Rating.

 

Can you guess who each belongs to?

 

 

Lol you are comparing.. wait for it.. Josh Allen to Anthony Richardson??? 

 

That an oranges to apple comparison bud.  Josh Allen had double the pass attempts in college and an arguably less talented team around him.

[HigSkin]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

 

 

 

 

Numbers going across are: Class, Position, Games, Completions, Attempts, Comp %, Yards, Yards/Attempt, Adjusted Passing Yards/Attempt, TD, INT, Rating.

 

Can you guess who each belongs to?

 

 

 

Okay, I'll play along, Josh Allen and Richardson?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Tress Is The Way said:

Lol you are comparing.. wait for it.. Josh Allen to Anthony Richardson??? 

 

That an oranges to apple comparison bud.  Josh Allen had double the pass attempts in college and an arguably less talented team around him.

 

Just now, HigSkin said:

 

Okay, I'll play along, Josh Allen and Richardson?

 

Yes.

 

"Bud" is a condescending approach to a conversation that doesn't need to be adversarial in the least, but if that's the way you feel best to go about it... fair enough.

 

Having said that, you are correct that Josh Allen had less surrounding talent. You are also correct that he had less attempts (those things are evident in the numbers provided as well).

 

However, people were also saying Allen could never develop in his draft year and outwardly laughed at Buffalo for drafting him. And yes, I know that to be the case because I live in the Buffalo market. Folks continued laughing through his first season as he looked every bit the same as he did in college, but there was a twinge of hope based on how athletic he was.

 

His second season began the turnaround for him and for public opinion. Those that weren't on board began to change their tune. His legs allowed Buffalo to buy some time for him to develop. He made mistakes in real-time and then learned from them and continued to grow as a passer.

 

Today, the kid from Wyoming who was laughed at is among the best passers in the National Football League.

 

My argument isn't that we should draft Richardson. I like Howell and think he could be the guy. I also think drafting a guy like Richardson to a lame duck regime is akin to this franchise drafting Haskins when they did. Guys who need some development work don't usually thrive in areas where they 1) aren't the guy right off the bat and 2) don't have full organizational support along with the coaching staff.

 

My argument is that writing off Anthony Richardson without considering the idea that he has the prototypical body type (he's much bigger than Malik Willis and faced much tougher competition week to week) with a good arm and good deep ball accuracy entirely is a mistake. 

 

That's all.

 

[skinny21]

@wit33I could be way wrong, but what I think(?) you might be missing - setting aside the culture, facilities, lack of a qb, etc - just honing in on the financials…

The (potential/likely) cash flow issues mean a hesitancy or even resistance to setting aside guaranteed money in an escrow account when that money could instead be earning interest.  So trading for Wentz, for example, becomes a lot more attractive because no money had to be set aside.  Whereas if Wentz had come with guaranteed 15mil each year (over 3 years), that’s 45 million that would not have been accruing interest (and worth bearing in mind the last 15mil would have been accruing interest for more than 2+ years).  

 

Now, obviously that’s a bad example, because surely part of the attractiveness of the trade was the ability to cut him whenever due to the lack of guaranteed money.

And to be fair, pretty significant guaranteed money had to be set aside for the deals for Terry/Allen.  But it’s easy to see how signing bigger names - for example, higher priced guards than Norwell/Turner - would have likely meant longer term deals with fairly substantial guaranteed money, and therefore however many millions not accruing interest for Dan.  
 

Anyway, the point is (I think) - sure, Dan is still paying up to the cap, but he’s doing it on a year-to-year basis with league money, not having to set aside many millions ahead of time (on top of what’s already set aside for current guaranteed money).  Essentially penny pinching on a macro level.

 

Or that’s how I understand it anyway.  And of course, that’s assuming the talk/reporting/rumors are correct.  One last point - this suggests that Ron being given a budget isn’t about how much cap money he can spend, but rather how much guaranteed money he can spend.

Edited February 8, 2023 by skinny21

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Richardson is intriguing for sure...

 

 

 

Physical skills are elite - but he is extremely raw and will need to sit for at least a year and maybe more. He needs time and patience from a stable coaching staff and system with ideally an established vet in place he can learn from. He will get a first round grade and be worth the risk for a team that fits the description I just laid out. Washington does not fit that description and he would be a bad pick for us - and it would be a bad situation for Richardson. 

[GoDeep81]

My bigger concern with AR, after watching every Gator game, is that he doesn't like to use his natural talent. (ie: his legs) He's got all the tools, but I just have a hard time buying he wasn't running the ball because he was "saving it for the nfl". At least half the time he ran the ball, he got up with a limp. I think he's (I hate to say it) soft, unfortunately. He's fun to watch though. Ya never know when he'll do something absolutely mind blowing. Then the next play it'll be mind blowing in the other direction. lol 

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think you are in your own orbit on this stuff, if you think players with options everything being equal want to come to this place.  I can't think of anyone else on the board purporting the same thing. 

 

So the scandals, the crap faciities and crap stadium, empty stadium, no home field advantage, the losing culture, established bad owner -- its all one big shrug from name that coach with options or player with options.   This if anything is where they'd want to be. 

 

Yeah every team ends up signing some players, sure.  But big players with options don't covet coming here, clearly.  It's worse now than years past for obvious reasons.   It's been a steady decline.

 

I agree if all things are equal a free agent will choose the organization with best chance to win for the next 2-3 seasons.

 

If Washington got hands on say a Joe Burrow type, they would instantly become a destination spot with all the scandals, crap facilities, empty stadium, the losing culture, established bad owner. The player can careless about all that, it’s been how they can maximize their money, continue to be productive, and in some cases win. All the other stuff is overrated and for fans to bicker about amongst one another. 

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There is a reason why you don't hear it leaked that players like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers wanted to come here and instead others teams are mentioned.  And I seriously doubt its because this is the secret place that these dudes want to go to but their agents for whatever reason don't want to let that on to the league. 
 

 

 

The Buccaneers have been a horrible franchise in recent and poorly ran. They stumbled on some talent and Brady saw an opportunity to win. He could give a damn about their facilities or how good of a guy the owner is. He wanted guarantees they would go all out to win the SB and maximize spending. Brady is legacy driven, so the money side of it as you know wasn’t a huge factor. Wilson on the other hand signed with an equally as poorly run franchise in the Broncos, but was money and power driven.
 

Washington isnt far from being a potential destination spot for a mercenary QB if they chose to get in those sweepstakes. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Among other things either Logan Paulsen is a liar or if he's telling the truth when he said he's talked to people in that FO and they know that this isn't where players want to go and they have to do extra things to try to overcome that but its not easy -- sounds like they need a pep talk from you to learn their concerns are completely unfounded.

 

Money cures all.
 

I don’t disagree Washington over the years would have to pay more than a franchise projected to win more games in the same 2-3 year window. If money is equal the free agent will often choose the place with a better chance to produce and win—no argument. Weaker teams often have more money available to get the guys they want. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Speaking of no one else on the board purporting the same thing.

 

The fact that Jay Gruden flat out said they got offered a first and change.  And Mike Jones said he heard it directly from Shanny -- not later in retrospect but in real time.  And yet you still argue this as if its a debate -- all I can say is lol.  

 

We took the words of Jay Gruden very different when on the podcast, it sounded like he had no clue. Maybe my bias glasses on, but the way I took it. Doesn’t surprise me a similar caliber entitled QB with a bloated salary may go for a 3rd round pick and have to restructure. Same dude some on this board were clamoring for and willing to give up 2 first round picks and pay 40 plus million. Wild.  

 

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I must admit, @wit33’s desert island takes often times make me wonder if he actually believes in the stuff he’s saying or if it’s just debating for the sake of debating, rather than conceding.

 

It’s seeing things for what they are and not placing pre conceived theories on how things are done. 
 

The Bears will probably obtain the most free agents this off season. Why? Money. End of story. 
 

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

We’ve long seen conspiracy theories here, which I guess is a hallmark of a bad team’s fanbase.  But it’s wild to watch the stuff you will file under ‘agent shenanigans’ even when there are a variety of people reporting the same stuff with added layers. 

 

 

 

The agent stuff lacks truth and any real substance in many cases. Washington will sign plenty of free agents, in most cases it will be because of money and opportunity to perform and earn more money. No, they are not going to acquire the veterans looking to win at this stage, but it has more to do with on field production versus all the other stuff that gets spewed around here. 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

Its hard for me to see this coaching staff and FO doing much of anything outside of what gives them an increased chance to win now.

 

Taking on an ultra-project, even one with the potential for a crazy high ROI, is living about as dangerously as you possibly can.

[KDawg]

38 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Physical skills are elite - but he is extremely raw and will need to sit for at least a year and maybe more. He needs time and patience from a stable coaching staff and system with ideally an established vet in place he can learn from. He will get a first round grade and be worth the risk for a team that fits the description I just laid out. Washington does not fit that description and he would be a bad pick for us - and it would be a bad situation for Richardson. 

 

I disagree he needs to sit. He needs to play. And to do that he has to go to a stable organization. Which is not us. I wonder if Baltimore trades Lamar if they go in on Anthony Richardson. He's not Lamar... but he's of the same vein.

[MartinC]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

I disagree he needs to sit. He needs to play. And to do that he has to go to a stable organization. Which is not us. I wonder if Baltimore trades Lamar if they go in on Anthony Richardson. He's not Lamar... but he's of the same vein.

Stability for him is key - on that we agree! I can see your point about playing, learn by doing and all that. Its something a team would have to evaluate during the process of deciding to draft him, have to have a plan for him. How he works out and interviews in meetings will help a team decide that - plus their existing QB situation. 

 

The Lamar situation with the Ravens is going to be interesting - with how hard it is to find elite level NFL QBs I have a hard time thinking they will let him get away. Their whole offense is built around him - he is their system.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

It’s seeing things for what they are and not placing pre conceived theories on how things are done. 
 

 

To defend your points as to this being a destintation spot, Jay-Mike Jones are foggy or lying about Kirk, etc. -- its not about pre-conceived theories.  It's downright conspiracy theory turf to run with your thoughts with multiple people lying about a lot of stuff, and the conspiracy runs deep -- national reporters, local reporters, agents, insiders who actually work for the team are all lying.   It reminds me of some of the thoughts by some on the FO thread back in the day with some thinking the Bruce-Dan stories were made up or embellished and multiple media efforts and sources were in on the cabal.  It's cool to each their own but we are wasting each other time to keep beating on this track.

 

Also don't want to derail the thread.  So bringing this back on point as to Carr.  Yeah at 32 coming off the worst season of his career since his rookie season -- his leverage is at an all time low -- especially with Jimmy G entering FA and Rodgers on the market.  He's not the only game in town and is being traded or released at the low point of his powers versus the peak of his powers.  So it should be interesting.  

Edited February 8, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

There is real data that Snyder’s cash flow is effecting Washington. 
 

We aren’t getting high end free agents from outside the team. 
 

You think Ron is saying, “hey, let’s pass on all the possible quality and go for low cost vets!”

 

You think Washington’s facilities are up to snuff? (They are the worst in the League).

 

The team that spent the most money in the league with cash over cap thoughts early in the tenure has suddenly just stopped that philosophy.

 

Your head is buried so deep in the sand it’s frustrating to even read the posts.

 

He's not changing his position and will die on a hill for it.

[88Comrade2000]

You know  we are talking about the team as it is now, not about what would happen with some star qb and some new owner. Currently as it is, we are the last place anyone with a choice; would want to come here.