The Official QB Thread- No Howell, No Way. Howell traded to the Seahawks. MarioTa vs Frommm battle for QB1

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Some of you have lost your collective minds RE: Tu'a.

 

If he can be had for a 2nd or 3rd round draft choice you get him and sprint away from the table.

 

He is FAR better than any active QB on this team. He also has more upside than any QB we've had since...

 

Well... it's been a long time.

 

Is he worth a first at this point? No. 

 

Having said that I very much doubt it happens. 

 

I'll listen to the evidence if you present it, because I'm not buying it.  Why would they be trying to get away from him this early unless they've seen enough to know he'll never be the guy?  Even if they are wrong, are we really the right team to fix him? Can we? Whats wrong with him? I dont watch dolphin games.

[CjSuAvE22]

How can we not like any QB's in the upcoming years draft..the qbs on this roster are....we literally found our starter doing math class, we must have the laziest scouting department ever...midway through a college season and we don't like any prospects in this years draft....im wondering is all they do is sit and wait for Mel Kiper to come out with his mock draft or something.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'll listen to the evidence if you present it, because I'm not buying it.  Why would they be trying to get away from him this early unless they've seen enough to know he'll never be the guy?  Even if they are wrong, are we really the right team to fix him? Can we? Whats wrong with him? I dont watch dolphin games.

 

Nothing is wrong with him. His offensive line is putrid. 

 

Tu'a on his career has 14 TD and 7 INT.  A 64.1 completion percentage. In 13 games he has 2 comebacks and 2 game winning drives.

 

He's a second year player who is still adjusting to the NFL.

 

You mean to tell me that you don't believe that a guy who, if not injured, would have been the first pick in all likelihood isn't worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

 

If he doesn't pan out, you still can draft a guy or sign a big FA. He's on a rookie deal. 

 

 

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Nothing is wrong with him. His offensive line is putrid. 

 

Tu'a on his career has 14 TD and 7 INT.  A 64.1 completion percentage. In 13 games he has 2 comebacks and 2 game winning drives.

 

He's a second year player who is still adjusting to the NFL.

 

You mean to tell me that you don't believe that a guy who, if not injured, would have been the first pick in all likelihood isn't worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder?

 

If he doesn't pan out, you still can draft a guy or sign a big FA. He's on a rookie deal. 

 

 

 

Ok, so why is Miami bailing on him then?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ok, so why is Miami bailing on him then?

 

Because they need a scapegoat. 

 

And I'm not convinced they are yet, anyways.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

This is going to be another wacky offseason of quarterback movement. You can already see it. Change is already in the air. It's looking increasingly inevitable in more organizations than one would expect, given all the upheaval of the last few years.

Upwards of half of the league could be in line for a QB switch by 2022. Yeah, crazy but true.

There are already a slew of Band-Aid QB moves for 2021 that are proving to be a poor fit. There are a bunch of clubs where the coach and GM are already on the hot seat, which could very well spell change at the quarterback position as well in just a few short months. It isn't very pretty under center in far too many places, and when you factor in the recent unrest regarding future Hall of Famers like Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers, too, it's not difficult at all to imagine a 2022 scenario in which there are teams clamoring for a new signal caller, in a draft year unlikely to be as robust at that position as most recent years.

Buckle up. It's going to be wild. Again.

 

Carolina Panthers

Sam Darnold ain't the answer. The last three games have been brutal and this was never the QB solution owner David Tepper was sold on in the first place. Too many turnovers. Too few big plays. Not enough completions. Without RUN CMC, it is particularly ugly. Tepper has long wanted Watson. At some point he may get him. But after going through Teddy Bridgewater and now Darnold, the Panthers are making one splash or another at QB next year.

Detroit Lions

Jared Goff was a high-priced salary dump. He is functional at best, and with this coaching staff on offense (less than innovative) and with this cast around him, you have no shot to win. He was never gonna be more than a look-see, and he could end up benched sooner rather than later. No one will be hotter to draft a QB than the Lions.

Pittsburgh Steelers

Big Ben is done. This year looks just like last year in the passing game, he took the pay cut to come back for one more shot … But this is it. The next guy isn't likely on the roster. Rodgers has been making googly eyes at them. Maybe it makes sense. I would say a reboot with a spry young QB makes more sense. But Mason Rudolph ain't it.

Washington Football Team

Ryan Fitzpatrick is at the end and injuries are a reality for him. Just a matter of how long it takes for them to set in. Couldn't make it through Week 1 this year. Taylor Heinicke is a run around guy but not a true starter. He is Gardner Minshew Lite. They have never had a long-term QB in place since Dan Snyder bought the team. Maybe they never will. But something has to give in 2022.

Atlanta Falcons

It was always silly to roll more money forward with Matt Ryan. They should have drafted his replacement with the fourth pick last year. But Arthur Smith is limited by the immobile QB, who has been on steady decline, and they'd better find the next guy next year, even if he sits for a little bit. Time to turn the page.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Because they need a scapegoat. 

 

And I'm not convinced they are yet, anyways.

 

 

 

I would've figured they'd scapegoat whoever wasted all those first round picks they had, that doesn't sound right.  I'm buying the Watson smoke, and if they thought he'd be that good or better, I dont get bailing on him to save face.

 

You typically bail on a QB you jus drafted when you know it won't pan out and need to fix the issue fast to save their job, see Rosen and Darnold.  Good QBs on rookie deals dont grow on trees. His qbr is 42.0, that doesn't sound good.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4241479/tua-tagovailoa

 

Finhaven seems to have a ceiling set for him, not as hard on him as I imagined they'd be, but hey, we got our own Hive over here, so...theie biggest problem seems to be his inability to stay healthy, which if I remember correctly was the fear when he came out of college.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Renegade7

[KDawg]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

I would've figured they'd scapegoat whoever wasted all those first round picks they had, that doesn't sound right.  I'm buying the Watson smoke, and if they thought he'd be that good or better, I dont get bailing on him to save face.

 

You typically bail on a QB you jus drafted when you know it won't pan out and need to fix the issue fast to save their job, see Rosen and Darnold.  Good QBs on rookie deals dont grow on trees. His qbr is 42.0, that doesn't sound good.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/4241479/tua-tagovailoa

 

Finhaven seems to have a ceiling set for him, not as hard on him as I imagined they'd be, but hey, we got our own Hive over here, so...theie biggest problem seems to be his inability to stay healthy, which if I remember correctly was the fear when he came out of college.

Watson, putting aside his issues, is elite.

 

No one is saying Tu’a is. But there is a lot of competition for QBs. Acquiring Tu’a doesn’t stop you from drafting someone else. But Tu’a may be your best shot at the end of the day. Pass up on him for, say, a third rounder and move forward with Heinicke?

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Watson, putting aside his issues, is elite.

 

No one is saying Tu’a is. But there is a lot of competition for QBs. Acquiring Tu’a doesn’t stop you from drafting someone else. But Tu’a may be your best shot at the end of the day. Pass up on him for, say, a third rounder and move forward with Heinicke?

 

Pass him, start Fitz when he's ready and keep on eye on the Jameis Winston situation, for starters.  A lot can happen between here and there, but I maintain not getting desperate to save Rivera's job.  If this is a rebuild, then he needs to be given the full 5 years to get his guy.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Pass him, start Fitz when he's ready and keep on eye on the Jameis Winston situation, for starters.  A lot can happen between here and there, but I maintain not getting desperate to save Rivera's job.  If this is a rebuild, then he needs to be given the full 5 years to get his guy.

Tua for a third is better than Jameis as a UFA in my opinion.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Tua for a third is better than Jameis as a UFA in my opinion.

 

Why? We get guys like McClaurin and Gibson in the third, I hate trading third rounders, especially during a rebuild.  And we don't know the asking price for Tua yet, we need to confirm that.

[skins island connection]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Watson, putting aside his issues, is elite.

 

No one is saying Tu’a is. But there is a lot of competition for QBs. Acquiring Tu’a doesn’t stop you from drafting someone else. But Tu’a may be your best shot at the end of the day. Pass up on him for, say, a third rounder and move forward with Heinicke?

 

 You really think so? { not trying to be smug, just asking }.

IMO, Watson was very good and had flashes here and there of 'elite', but once Houston lost Hopkins they went belly up.

 Watson would need a couple of top WRs; no ill will towards McLaurin, but he's a 'good WR' like a Garcon-type. 

 

Surprising that its not been delved into, but one big thing missing in this organization is a good QB coach. An OC typically doesn't have the fine points and precise knowledge to groom a QB. Back in the day, Gibbs would find a prospect and hide them away, all the while grooming them.  Today's NFL is win-now, and its a crap shoot finding a good QB, much less keeping them on the team, If they somehow start a game or 2, they end up not being very good and the pitchforks come out early, and 'poof' he's gone. 

Rodgers is a win-now QB, but with the defense { or lack thereof } by the time the defense got fixed he would be retiring or wanting off the team. 

 

My opinion is to just ride TH/Allen/whoever else they find for the next couple years, stock away some draft ammo and hopefully find something in 2023, because next year's QB class is weak.

[KDawg]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Why? We get guys like McClaurin and Gibson in the third, I hate trading third rounders, especially during a rebuild.  And we don't know the asking price for Tua yet, we need to confirm that.

The price determines a lot more. The hypothetical I’m using is consistent with the forum so far. Anyone passing on Tua for a third is clinically insane or is a lot higher on our roster than I am.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The price determines a lot more. The hypothetical I’m using is consistent with the forum so far. Anyone passing on Tua for a third is clinically insane or is a lot higher on our roster than I am.

 

So im clinically insane now?  All three of our current qbs have injuries or high risk of injury and want another one? Isn't that the definition of insanity?

 

Winston got $12 million from Saints, thats not that bad.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2021/03/16/jameis-winston-saints-contract-one-year-deal

Edited October 21, 2021 by Renegade7

[philibusters]

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ok, so why is Miami bailing on him then?

 

Because Deshaun Watson is a proven top 8 or so QB whereas Tau is a project.   However, that doesn't mean Tua couldn't be a good get for us.   Obviously you want to give up as little as possible, so a third rounder is better than a second rounder.  Most of the draft followers on this site didn't scout Tua too closely because we Haskins was going to be given a shot at the time, but most people liked him.   I would say he had a disappointing rookie year where he won games, but didn't impress.   So far in 2021 he has played a little better.

 

I don't think it will happen, but I would be on board with it if did happen.

[KDawg]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

So im clinically insane now?  All three of our current qbs have injuries or high risk of injury and want another one? Isn't that the definition of insanity?

It’s a third rounder. 
 

It doesn’t stop you from getting an upgrade. 
 

And yes, I think the stance to pass on a QB who was in the convo to be the top pick a year ago is a clinically insane position to take. 
 

I don’t think YOU are clinically insane. I just don’t understand passing on quarterback upgrades for a franchise that is in desperate need. You evaluate the rest of this season and decide your stance next offseason.  
 

If Fitz is back in the next few weeks I’d still even consider it. Fitz won’t be around long. 

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It’s a third rounder. 
 

It doesn’t stop you from getting an upgrade. 
 

And yes, I think the stance to pass on a QB who was in the convo to be the top pick a year ago is a clinically insane position to take. 

 

 

But thats based on what he did in college, not the pros.  How many #1 picks we seen fall flat on their face at this level or become jus average starters? Happens all the time. 

 

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don’t think YOU are clinically insane. I just don’t understand passing on quarterback upgrades for a franchise that is in desperate need. You evaluate the rest of this season and decide your stance next offseason.  
 

 

I'm passing on THAT specific option, not the need in general.  I already present Winston, who got a contract similar to Fitz despite being much younger.

 

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If Fitz is back in the next few weeks I’d still even consider it. Fitz won’t be around long. 

 

I believe this his last year in the NFL, hip is nothing to joke about.

12 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

Because Deshaun Watson is a proven top 8 or so QB whereas Tau is a project.   

 

That sounds more like a dice roll then a stop gap.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

But thats based on what he did in college, not the pros.  How many #1 picks we seen fall flat on their face at this level or become jus average starters? Happens all the time. 

 

 

I'm passing on THAT specific option, not the need in general.  I already present Winston, who got a contract similar to Fitz despite being much younger.

 

 

I believe this his last year in the NFL, hip is nothing to joke about.

 

That sounds more like a dice roll then a stop gap.

It is a dice roll. Which is something we haven’t even attempted.

 

I also like Trubisky as a stop gap FA signing. But not as much as Tu’a as far as potential goes.

[philibusters]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

That sounds more like a dice roll then a stop gap.

 

Sure but with a weak QB draft class, drafting a QB is going to be a roll of the dice.   Coming out of college, Tua would have been valued clearly ahead of all the guys in this draft class.   If you can get Tua for a third, you are getting a player with more upside for less in my opinion (a third round pick, rather than using a first or second round pick)

[Renegade7]

Just now, KDawg said:

It is a dice roll. Which is something we haven’t even attempted.

 

I also like Trubisky as a stop gap FA signing. But not as much as Tu’a as far as potential goes.

 

K, I can see you believe Tau has a higher ceiling then some other options, is respect that.  But health is a huge turnoff for me, especially at QB.  Ill think about it at least, moved from hell no.

1 minute ago, philibusters said:

 

Sure but with a weak QB draft class, drafting a QB is going to be a roll of the dice.   Coming out of college, Tua would have been valued clearly ahead of all the guys in this draft class.   If you can get Tua for a third, you are getting a player with more upside for less in my opinion (a third round pick, rather than using a first or second round pick)

 

Which is why I'd rather have Winston.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ok, so why is Miami bailing on him then?

I would say that they're bailing because he's injury prone and not as good as they thought he was when they drafted him. They may also have questions about his make-up as a leader? These are logical assumptions.....but who knows? I will say this, giving up on him this early for a character risk like Watson does say something about what they think of Tua. 

I'm with you, if we do go for Tua I hope we don't give up the farm.....but desperate teams do desperate things. 

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

It is a dice roll. Which is something we haven’t even attempted.

 

I also like Trubisky as a stop gap FA signing. But not as much as Tu’a as far as potential goes.

I'd try and deal for Trubisky too....he has great physical tools and is learning behind Josh Allen. 

[philibusters]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Which is why I'd rather have Winston.

 

Winston would be an upgrade to our current situation as he is only 27.   I am not against getting Winston as he could probably have a decent 5 or 6 year run as our starting QB.   I would say the ceiling is higher on Tua (both in terms of their upside on the field and their current ages--23 vs. 27)), but the floor is higher on Winston.  I am all for considering both options along with other options such as signing Trubisky, trying to trade for Love if Rodgers somehow works it out with Green Bay, maybe going after Daniel Jones if NYG let him go.  I am all for considering all the options

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, No Nonsense said:

I could care less what they recommended. When will this team stop going after other teams garbage? 

So what is your plan? 

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

 

Absolutely not, its Heinicke physical limitations and now all the sudden timid playing style that is holding him back.  The defense is making certain games unwinnable, but that doesn't dictate his play the way you are claiming.

 

He's playing poorly right now, even when the defense was doing better in the first half against the cheifs.  That was a team he should've teed off on, and he didn't, and you're blaming our defense instead? Huh?

I saw multiple dropped passes, including one by Terry, and a fumble by Gibson....Heiny isn't the problem, the entire team is out of sorts. Everyone is to blame.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

 

I saw multiple dropped passes, including one by Terry, and a fumble by Gibson....Heiny isn't the problem, the entire team is out of sorts. Everyone is to blame.

 

Not the problem, but a big one at a place you can't afford to have one.  

[No Nonsense]

14 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

So what is your plan? 

Certainly wouldn’t be a failed QB from another team. I’d rather draft a QB before I go down that route.