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The Official Heinicke Hive Thread


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3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Respectfully disagree, why not start Heinicke and give him a chance to get a feel for the game right away rather than wasting time watching Alex avoid getting hammered. Lets let it fly from the jump....come out really aggressive with downfield throws, designed QB runs, etc....show Tampa things we haven't done that Heinicke can do. We know, and more importantly Tampa knows, exactlly what Alex is and what kind of limited offense we are with Alex. It's time for Riverboat Ron to really roll the dice and attack rather than playing it close to the vest.  Keep Alex in reserve in case we have to use him. 

 

 

Exactly.  Why dig the hole with Alex early (which we KNOW will happen if he starts) and force the kid to lead a comeback. Let him come out swinging right out of the gate and see if he can put 20 pts on the board over the course of the game, and rely on our defense to try and limit Tom to hold on for a W. 

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1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

You guys do realize you're setting yourself up for disappointment if Heinicke ****s the bed, right?  

 

I think a lot of the posters here are rational and well-informed.  But this board goes WAY off the rails the minute someone puts up some good production in a very small sample size.  It's a weird place.

 

I'll admit, I am a biased homer when it comes to Taylor Heinicke.  He put football on the map for us at Old Dominion and enabled our young program to move up to DIV 1A/BCS.  He is seen as a Founding Father to any Monarch grad... (the same sick way that Philly fans adore their fictional movie character, Rocky Balboa).

 

Now that being said.  We also have literally hours of watching Taylor's game film and have a good sense of what he can do on the field... the intangibles, the mobility, the moxy, the winning, etc.  Casual Skins fans got a little taste of that during the Carolina game and no Monarch fans were surprised by the almost 3 TDs and comeback he nearly pulled off.

 

I agree with the others... Alex earned this start

 

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4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

This has probably been posted but I don't feel like looking through 15 pages of posts for it. But I've been looking for info on Heinicke's arm strength and scouting stuff and found this article. 

 

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/college/old-dominion/dp-spt-odu-football-pro-day-heinicke-20150319-story.html

 

 

 

[/quote]

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this. Him putting on muscle to increase that arm strength showed he was serious with some good work ethic, at least back in 2015. I'd be thrilled if he just became a solid back up who can maybe squeak out a win or two in relief.

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11 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

To say I don't like our chances against the Buc's would be an understatement. Sorry for being a downer but that defense, Brady, Antonio Brown, Evans, Godwin, Gronk oh my.

I’m more worried about our offense vs their defense than the other way around. Our defense can play with them. 

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5 minutes ago, Leonard Washington said:

I’m more worried about our offense vs their defense than the other way around. Our defense can play with them. 

I think Rivera is right to consider switching between qbs, because trying to decide between Alex’s experience and Taylor’s mobility and ability to push the ball further downfield certainly has me going back and forth.  One understated thing Heinicke brings is an uncertainty of how to play him.  With Smith, it’s sit on the short stuff (and jam receivers) and blitz. 

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If Heinecke is gonna play then he should get the bulk of the work in practice and start. Its always easier to go to the vet midway through but you never want a kid to come in cold.

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

If Heinecke is gonna play then he should get the bulk of the work in practice and start. Its always easier to go to the vet midway through but you never want a kid to come in cold.

Well according to the injury report alex smith did not practice. So i have a feeling taylor will get all of the 1st team reps while alex rests. If taylor is needed, he will have practiced.

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11 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I think Rivera is right to consider switching between qbs, because trying to decide between Alex’s experience and Taylor’s mobility and ability to push the ball further downfield certainly has me going back and forth.  One understated thing Heinicke brings is an uncertainty of how to play him.  With Smith, it’s sit on the short stuff (and jam receivers) and blitz. 

I think the motive for either one will be to blitz. I think that's the Bucs philosophy anyway, but Heinicke is a young QB who hasn't seen much live action here in the NFL. So they are going to try to scramble his thoughts and have him seeing ghosts.

 

I was watching SB22 last night and its clear that after those first 2 drives, and in particular after the hit by Alvin Walton and some pressures by Mann and Manley, John Elway is seeing ghosts. After that first pass for a TD, dude completed like 3 of his next 9 passes. Even after that, when he started running he was getting hit and he was fearful of it. 

 

I think that's how you deal with QBs in this league. Lucy for us we have a solid front four that can put pressure without a blitz and hopefully can have Brady in this same thought pattern, but I think Heinicke will be under constant pressure and not given the time to go through his reads (which is appareantly his best thing as a QB, getting through all 5 reads quickly). Luckily though Heinicke has some legs and blitzing can open up some space to run through. So this is not necessarily a foolproof plan. 

12 hours ago, petey hodge said:

 

I'll admit, I am a biased homer when it comes to Taylor Heinicke.  He put football on the map for us at Old Dominion and enabled our young program to move up to DIV 1A/BCS.  He is seen as a Founding Father to any Monarch grad... (the same sick way that Philly fans adore their fictional movie character, Rocky Balboa).

 

Now that being said.  We also have literally hours of watching Taylor's game film and have a good sense of what he can do on the field... the intangibles, the mobility, the moxy, the winning, etc.  Casual Skins fans got a little taste of that during the Carolina game and no Monarch fans were surprised by the almost 3 TDs and comeback he nearly pulled off.

 

I agree with the others... Alex earned this start

 

I love what Alex was able to do (along with the defense) but I disagree with what Ron said about him being a vet who is able to not practice all week and go in Sunday and execute. Sure its technically true and sure Heinicke needs reps if he's going to play. But if Alex isn't practicing because of injury that's probably going to impact his play on Saturday. He practiced last week and it impacted him.

 

I'd do the opposite. I'd have all three QBs active, with Heinicke starting and Montez as the primary backup. But if Heinicke looks lost under the lights, that's when I'd think of playing Smith (or Montez but really he'd just be there in case both get injured). 

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I assume just like last week that Alex will be rested and on the side maybe throwing thru Thursday with Taylor getting all first team reps until seeing if Alex can go on Friday.

 

This is a good use of time by Ron for Taylor but also will lead to rust for Alex though he has to rest that leg.

 

Taylor will be ready if called upon I assume and he'll know the gameplan for this week.  I'm sure Alex's mental reps and experience has him understanding the gameplan as well. 

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14 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I think Rivera is right to consider switching between qbs, because trying to decide between Alex’s experience and Taylor’s mobility and ability to push the ball further downfield certainly has me going back and forth.  One understated thing Heinicke brings is an uncertainty of how to play him.  With Smith, it’s sit on the short stuff (and jam receivers) and blitz. 


The reason you play Smith is because, when he is healthy, he avoids mistakes. In this injured state, he can’t drive the ball and is a pick machine

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1 hour ago, method man said:


The reason you play Smith is because, when he is healthy, he avoids mistakes. In this injured state, he can’t drive the ball and is a pick machine

 

He's turned the ball over 8 times in 7 games.  He is not avoiding mistakes.  

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2 hours ago, method man said:


The reason you play Smith is because, when he is healthy, he avoids mistakes. In this injured state, he can’t drive the ball and is a pick machine

Yep.  I’d like to be able to play/trust Smith, but he really hinders the offense if he can’t drive off his back foot at all.  I was surprised he was able to get away from some of the pressure he did last game, though there were also times he should have been able to scramble and just couldn’t.  From what I’ve heard, it’s a recipe for disaster against the Buc’s D.

 

@Thinking Skins  Agree that Taylor playing shouldn’t affect the Buc’s game plan - they going to stick to their blitzing ways.  But as you point out, Heinicke’s legs are what could make the difference - both escaping presssure, and allowing time for deeper routes.

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1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

@Thinking Skins  Agree that Taylor playing shouldn’t affect the Buc’s game plan - they going to stick to their blitzing ways.  But as you point out, Heinicke’s legs are what could make the difference - both escaping presssure, and allowing time for deeper routes.

What I'm curious about Heinicke is whether he will do the later or just the former. I would love to see him become a Russell Wilson who is able to run away from pressure, but stay behind the line of scrimmage, keep his eyes downfield and spot an open WR for a big gain. Unfortunately I have to remind myself that he's not only a UDFA, but an UDFA who was out of work until 6 weeks ago, so I have to limit my expectations on this. The fan in me counters with "well after Kurt Warner was cut by GB, he was bagging groceries", but I'm really grasping for straws. 

 

Honestly I see the film from Heinicke's college games and stuff from his preseason games in Carolina (fun to watch this stuff on the treadmill) and I see some talent. he gets a lot of praise at Old Dominion and I posted one video saying he was cut for being too good (and the guy questioned why they kept the other guys). I also look at his start from  2018 and it seems like he didn't fold in the lights. He led some long drives that put them in scoring position multiple times but had 3 interceptions deep in Atlanta territory (with one being on the last drive before the end of the game so I don't really count that one). What caused those interceptions? Not sure yet but he did have 274 yards and 17 first downs. It looks like they blitzed him 15 times (sacking him twice). We'll see but its not a really bad first game. They put a lot on his shoulders that game (he threw the ball 53 times) and he didn't fold like he didn't belong. 

 

His game a few weeks ago was even better and makes me think that he doesn't have the turnover problem that he may have shown here, but that could be me hoping. I really don't know and if I had to guess I'd say that its my real fear as he made some bad throws the Atlanta game and the Carolina game so maybe that's where he isn't the ideal starter for a season. But for a game I'm wondering if he can be the guy to lead us over the hump. 

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7 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

A mobile Heinicke can't be worse than a one legged Alex Smith.  If he was truly that terrible, this team would not have cut Haskins when they did.  

There's levels to this though. Haskins is probably only as good as a one legged Heinicke.

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2 hours ago, method man said:


Tom Brady improved his arm strength over time by training

Tom Brady's arm strength is what it's always been. He's never had a cannon arm and certainly never will now. You don't need a cannon to be good, you need to be accurate and able to read defenses to decide where to throw and when. Brady became what he is because he's so devoted to it. Same with Peyton Manning,

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/06/taylor-heinicke-first-team-washington-practice/?utm_campaign=wp_sports&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

During the Washington Football Team’s practice Wednesday, Taylor Heinicke was the top quarterback and Alex Smith was a limited participant. Heinicke took all the first-team reps in the limited portion of practice open to media and Steven Montez, the third-string quarterback, took all the backup reps.

 

Coach Ron Rivera maintained the plan is still to start Smith, if healthy, and insert Heinicke if necessary.

Smith is questionable to play Saturday night against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the first round of the playoffs, as he continues to deal with a calf strain that kept him out of two games and affected him during Sunday’s win over Philadelphia. Smith threw at practice Wednesday, Rivera said, but the quarterback also admitted the short week makes his rehab timeline tougher.

 

“[Thursday] is going to be a telling day,” Smith said. “I felt I got done what I needed to [Wednesday]. Again, just trying to stay shortsighted and not get ahead of myself and doing what I need to get done every single day from a mental side and preparing. Then, obviously, ramping up physically.”

 

The rotation of Smith and Heinicke remains possible. It would happen if Smith started, exited because of his injury and felt good enough later to return. Smith said he had never been part of a rotation, but he brushed aside the idea it would limit him.

 

“I’m focused on what I need to do to get ready to roll,” he said. “Again, all that other stuff, I play quarterback. I’m getting ready to go in and get done what I need to get done this week, preparing obviously for a huge challenge.”

 

If the quarterback rotation happens, offensive coordinator Scott Turner said it would not affect how he called plays. He said he trusts Heinicke because he’s tough, smart and “all these cliches.”

 

“If Taylor is going to play, he’s got to play,” Turner added. “We’re not going to baby him. We’re not going to play scared. We’re going to play to win. Everybody on this team deserves that. He’s capable of it.”

 

Rivera echoed Turner’s thoughts. He thought Heinicke was impressive at the end of the Carolina game in Week 16, when he replaced Dwayne Haskins and finished 12 for 19 for 137 yards and a touchdown, plus three rushes for 22 yards. Rivera thought Heinicke’s performance helped him as much as it did the quarterback.

 

“When he was with us in Carolina, we didn’t get to see a lot,” Rivera said. “So, I always wondered if there were certain things that he could do. When he had his opportunity to start [in 2018], he started and did some things early and then he got hurt. We really didn’t get to see the rest of it. But then being able to see what he did in the Panthers game, I think really helped me. I will say this, it definitely helped [give confidence to] his teammates.”

 

 

There is still concern that, even if Smith starts, he might not be able to move as well as he’d need to. He looked immobile Sunday, and the Eagles countered by blitzing more. Smith said he didn’t feel limited, but he acknowledged that, in the second half, “you could probably see the difference” in his movement.

 

“But who is 100 percent right now?” he said. “I’m doing everything I need to do to try to work through that. That’s a part of it obviously as an aging quarterback as well. … It’s not something I’m concerned about.”

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Two things:

 

1) I think for a lot of us it is not about Heinicke over Smith, it is Heinicke over an injured Smith that can't plant and throw and/or becomes ineffective anytime he is flushed from the pocket.  If Alex Smith was 100% or at least could still make all his normal throws then that would be a different story.

 

2)  If Rivera does plan on some kind of rotation, how exactly would it work?  Would it be based on the hot/cold play of the QB or based on certain plays they want to run?  I don't really see how you would pull a QB from the game if they are tearing it up out there just for the sake of a planned rotation?

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On 1/5/2021 at 6:51 PM, Leonard Washington said:

I’m more worried about our offense vs their defense than the other way around. Our defense can play with them. 

Our defense has the ability to completely dominate them. Lets not act like TB has played a bunch of defensive powerhouses during their stretch of winning games. 

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25 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Tom Brady's arm strength is what it's always been. He's never had a cannon arm and certainly never will now. You don't need a cannon to be good, you need to be accurate and able to read defenses to decide where to throw and when. Brady became what he is because he's so devoted to it. Same with Peyton Manning,

 

Lest we forget, Thomas Brady was a little known 6th round pick with very little expectation starting for the injured incumbent Drew Bledsoe. 

 

And before people lose their minds, no I'm not saying TH will be the next Tom Brady, so cool the jets.... 

 

....but how fitting if he does go on to have some success that his very first start will be under similar circumstances and going against THE Tom Brady? 

 

Here's to Heinicke pulling off the dream run of 4 straight wins powered by the defense. 

 

Hail. 

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  • LetThePointsSoar changed the title to The Official Heinicke Hive Thread

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