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WFT Branding Study (Part 2)


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2 hours ago, #httr1979 said:

Are you a Native American? If not, you have no right to proclaim what is a racial slur or not to them. You’re offending me and making me feel uncomfortable.

Technically yeah, My great grandfather was was Delaware Indian, but I'm more Irish/mutt, but I'm pretty sure a white guy knows that the N word is a slur. 

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33 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Technically yeah, My great grandfather was was Delaware Indian, but I'm more Irish/mutt, but I'm pretty sure a white guy knows that the N word is a slur. 

Redskins is not a racial slur though. Just because a white man added it to a dictionary doesn’t mean it actually is to Native Americans. It’s offensive that you are offended on behalf of them.

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8 minutes ago, #httr1979 said:

Redskins is not a racial slur though. Just because a white man added it to a dictionary doesn’t mean it actually is to Native Americans. It’s offensive that you are offended on behalf of them.

So you're in charge of what native americans are aloud to be offended by? lol. Just stop with that dumb ****. I posted a WaPo article that included the time line of the entire thing earlier. 

 

It's been a problem for a very long time.

 

How the **** does this conversation keep going to this? It's a slur. It's official and everyone except a small group of fans of the team get it.

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19 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

How the **** does this conversation keep going to this? It's a slur. It's official and everyone except a small group of fans of the team get it.

 

This is just not true, and if it was, a large portion of the NA population hasn't gotten the word yet.

 

It keeps going that way mainly because you keep wanting it to.  We can talk about NA references and imagery or just being WFT without debating the name " Redskins ".

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't mind a name that continues to reference Native Americans, but unless the approach has changed behind the scenes it was reported that Native Americans won't be referenced in the new brand.  One of the main reasons I want Warriors, is because our fan base can still think of that name as a natural progression from Redskins as long as there is no obvious visual link to Native Americans.  Some people take the position that "oh no, there is no way the activists will let them get away with that."  I say, a sharp looking W logo for a team named Warriors is not directly Native American, and you can interpret that logo however you want.  I get that the trademark concerns definitely make choosing that name very difficult, but I'm hoping people who are knowledgeable in such things can work it out over the long haul.  I'm not ready to give up on that hope.  

 

If not Warriors, Wolves, and admittedly there are some great things that can be done with that brand.  (also a very subtle tie to Native American culture)  I still think Redwolves will come off as us forcing "Red" into a name, whether a Red Wolf actually exists (barely) or not.  If Washington Wolves were to be chosen, the team could somehow incorporate the various types of Wolves into the stadium experience or something.  Call the Home side the Red Wolf Den, the visitors side the Grey Wolf Den, or something along those lines.  There are ways to incorporate the Red Wolf into the new branding and presentation without naming the team Redwolves.  If the name ends up being Redwolves, I will learn to live with it, but that name is never going to be one of my top choices. 

 

One thing that could help that along is seeing a tougher more aggressive looking logo design for that name.  I haven't seen one that I thought looked fitting.  They all look passive.  Also, that works against Redwolves in my opinion.  Do we really want an animal that was practically hunted to extinction in the wild looking aggressive?  "Hey look at Washington's new aggressive Red Wolf mascot...Red Wolves are dangerous animals shoot them on sight!" (Yes, some people really are that dumb)         

Edited by Painkiller
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Posted (edited)

I'm glad we got rid of the name, it was a distraction away from football and I got really tired of it being brought up all the time. Even if it only offends 2% of the Native American population, im glad we changed it for them.

 

We can debate if the name is a slur or not all we want, but one thing that cannot be debated is that the name was controversial. A sports team name or essentially a business since that's what it is, should never be controversial. 

 

Some people acted like it was going to cause them physical pain to root for this team with a different name. I think many in that crowd have essentially just accepted it for what it is, but if you still can't accept it... try not being so selfish. The team name was not for you, its for everyone, and if everyone couldn't enjoy it then there was a problem with it. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm glad we got rid of the name, it was a distraction away from football and I got really tired of it being brought up all the time. Even if it only offends 2% of the Native American population, im glad we changed it for them.

 

We can debate if the name is a slur or not all we want, but one thing that cannot be debated is that the name was controversial. A sports team name or essentially a business since that's what it is, should never be controversial. 

 

Some people acted like it was going to cause them physical pain to root for this team with a different name. I think many in that crowd have essentially just accepted it for what it is, but if you still can't accept it... try not being so selfish. The team name was not for you, its for everyone, and if everyone couldn't enjoy it then there was a problem with it. 

 

I generally agree with this statement.  For me, it was like defending a member of my family.  Maybe at the end of the day that sentiment is ridiculous, but that is what it felt like.  I had been a fan of this team all of my life.  I was defending the memories, the memorabilia, and the players from my youth who I thought may be tarnished if the name changed.  I also knew that the intent of the name and the branding was not to offend anyone.  Why would you name your team after something you did not respect?  You could say I irrationally defended the team's name for years, and now I'm irrationally worried about what replaces that name, lol.  However, this is extremeskins, and I've been posting here since 2004.  We are the extremes, lol.      

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7 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

I generally agree with this statement.  For me, it was like defending a member of my family.  Maybe at the end of the day that sentiment is ridiculous, but that is what it felt like.  I had been a fan of this team all of my life.  I was defending the memories, the memorabilia, and the players from my youth who I thought may be tarnished if the name changed.  I also knew that the intent of the name and the branding was not to offend anyone.  Why would you name your team after something you did not respect?  You could say I irrationally defended the team's name for years, and now I'm irrationally worried about what replaces that name, lol.  However, this is extremeskins, and I've been posting here since 2004.  We are the extremes, lol.      

I use to feel exactly the same way. I've personally changed a lot, especially after moving to a 85% African American island, that is so directly tied to the transatlantic slavery of the past, while Americans are going through a racial awakening I guess you could say. Ten years ago when I moved here, I'd proudly yell about the Redskins. A lot of black friends would ask why a sports team has to bring race into it. Had a lot of difficult conversations and realized it's just not worth it. I will still love the teams from my youth and if I didn't walk away during the last awful 25 years, why do it now. 

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm glad we got rid of the name, it was a distraction away from football and I got really tired of it being brought up all the time. Even if it only offends 2% of the Native American population, im glad we changed it for them.

 

We can debate if the name is a slur or not all we want, but one thing that cannot be debated is that the name was controversial. A sports team name or essentially a business since that's what it is, should never be controversial. 

 

Some people acted like it was going to cause them physical pain to root for this team with a different name. I think many in that crowd have essentially just accepted it for what it is, but if you still can't accept it... try not being so selfish. The team name was not for you, its for everyone, and if everyone couldn't enjoy it then there was a problem with it. 

Great post. We'll said. I know this is a really sensitive topic, we all have strong feelings about and it definitely gets too heated.

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1 minute ago, Painkiller said:

 

I generally agree with this statement.  For me, it was like defending a member of my family.  Maybe at the end of the day that sentiment is ridiculous, but that is what it felt like.  I had been a fan of this team all of my life.  I was defending the memories, the memorabilia, and the players from my youth who I thought may be tarnished if the name changed.  I also knew that the intent of the name and the branding was not to offend anyone.  Why would you name your team after something you did not respect?  You could say I irrationally defended the team's name for years, and now I'm irrationally worried about what replaces that name, lol.  However, this is extremeskins, and I've been posting here since 2004.  We are the extremes, lol.      

I'll accept whatever the name becomes because the team is basically engrained in my DNA at this point. I look at is as a fresh start because we have been awful under the old name since our last superbowl which was 30 years ago. I know the name had absolutely nothing to do with the dysfunction within the organization, but it is nice to see everything seemingly "get better". 

 

What the name becomes probably won't matter in 5 years to you as much as you think it will now. Not that I watch basketball much, but my team is the "Magic". You want to talk about stupid ****ing names lol, they're still my team but I'm aware the name is bad. It still doesn't mean I don't root for them. Most of us learn to adapt and sometimes even grow to like silly names like "Football Team" after a while because of good memories that might associated with the name. 

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I do wonder if old Oilers fans follow the Titans(silly name). They had some awesome teams, too, before they moved, but that feels more like an expansion team, since they replaced them with the Texans (also a dumb name).

 

Ravens feel the same way to me. Like a completely new franchise.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I do wonder if old Oilers fans follow the Titans(silly name). They had some awesome teams, too, before they moved, but that feels more like an expansion team, since they replaced them with the Texans (also a dumb name).

 

Ravens feel the same way to me. Like a completely new franchise.

See that's when things start getting touchy. I'm not from DC so if the team left, I would still root for them but it would be really strange. 

 

I could totally understand local fans not following their team anymore when they leave. Like if old St. Louis Rams fans became Kansas City Chiefs fans, its very understandable to me. Why should they root for a team that's all the way in LA? 

 

I'd bet that most of the old Oilers fans became Cowboy fans or they didn't follow the NFL much after the Oilers left and became Texans fans when they entered the league. I would be surprised if there are a lot of Titans fans in Houston. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
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6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I do wonder if old Oilers fans follow the Titans(silly name). They had some awesome teams, too, before they moved, but that feels more like an expansion team, since they replaced them with the Texans (also a dumb name).

 

Ravens feel the same way to me. Like a completely new franchise.

Basically, it’s been 25 years since the Browns moved to Baltimore.  The Ravens are entrenched in this community now just like our team.  The fact of the matter is the Baltimore Ravens are a beautiful bit of branding also.  The name, look, mystique, it all fits.  I’m not ashamed to admit it, and I hope we get something equally as strong.  

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5 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

See that's when things start getting touchy. I'm not from DC so if the team left, I would still root for them but it would be really strange. 

 

I could totally understand local fans not following their team anymore when they leave. Like if old St. Louis Rams fans became Kansas City Chiefs fans, its very understandable to me. Why should they root for a team that's all the way in LA? 

 

I'd bet that most of the old Oilers fans became Cowboy fans or they didn't follow the NFL much after the Oilers left and became Texans fans when they entered the league. I would be surprised if there are a lot of Titans fans in Houston. 

I'm from Philly, so me growing up a skins fan was a fluke that stuck. I've joked a few times that when I use to play Madden I always moved the team to Vegas and became the Fun Devils with black and lime green, so I wouldn't care regardless. 

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10 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

Basically, it’s been 25 years since the Browns moved to Baltimore.  The Ravens are entrenched in this community now just like our team.  The fact of the matter is the Baltimore Ravens are a beautiful bit of branding also.  The name, look, mystique, it all fits.  I’m not ashamed to admit it, and I hope we get something equally as strong.  

Gotta feel bad for the Browns fans. They could have enjoyed a nice superbowl victory in 2000. 

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1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Gotta feel bad for the Browns fans. They could have enjoyed a nice superbowl victory in 2000. 

They also had Bill Belicheck as a coach...

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4 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm glad we got rid of the name, it was a distraction away from football and I got really tired of it being brought up all the time. Even if it only offends 2% of the Native American population, im glad we changed it for them.

I just got tired of the constant fight--and just the constant proselytizing from self-righteous jackasses like Florio, Wise, and Feinstein, and their sycophants lining up to slurp up their every word. I still don't agree with the reasons for dropping the name--there wasn't a discussion and it seemed anyone who disagreed for whatever reason were badgered and bullied down by the "enlightened." But it's all moot now, it's gone and it's not coming back, so who cares?

 

I am excited that Wright is running this search and not Snyder (or I hope he is anyway). The team is taking its time and doing it right--so we end up with a name like the Ravens (agree with whoever said it--excellent marketing and strategy behind that), and not the Raptors, Titans, Wizards, Golden Knights...

 

 

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Since we’ve pretty much beaten the hell out of the current options and with this in mind:  “so we end up with a name like the Ravens (agree with whoever saidit--excellent marketing and strategy behind that” what would be some DC centric cultural/historical references akin to Poe/Ravens?

 

It used to be referred (by somebody I guess, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard it) to as Chocolate City but that damn sure isn’t going to work.

 

There are certainly legends and historical stories aka Poe.  The Exorcists

 

The place was built in swampland that nobody really wanted.  Swamp Rats

 

The DC bird is a Wood Thrush

 

Bluestone is a type of rock found in the Potomac but that wouldn’t work w the color scheme.

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2 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

There are certainly legends and historical stories aka Poe.  The Exorcists

Between that and the Goatman of Beltsville...the answer is obvious

8x21 optimistic GIF on GIFER - by Managelv

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2 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

There are certainly legends and historical stories aka Poe.  The Exorcists.

 

24 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Between that and the Goatman of Beltsville...the answer is obvious ...


 

96FFB8B7-8C11-479B-88A1-BAECFAAE854C.png

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7 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

I am excited that Wright is running this search and not Snyder (or I hope he is anyway). The team is taking its time and doing it right--so we end up with a name like the Ravens (agree with whoever said it--excellent marketing and strategy behind that), and not the Raptors, Titans, Wizards, Golden Knights...

 

 

Or Nationals - what a dumb name.

 

😉

 

 

 

 

 

 

:229:The Rook

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58 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Between that and the Goatman of Beltsville...the answer is obvious

8x21 optimistic GIF on GIFER - by Managelv

My first email that I made in a rush during the first round of my first fantasy draft was christpunchers13@beer.com  :ols:

3 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

Since we’ve pretty much beaten the hell out of the current options and with this in mind:  “so we end up with a name like the Ravens (agree with whoever saidit--excellent marketing and strategy behind that” what would be some DC centric cultural/historical references akin to Poe/Ravens?

 

It used to be referred (by somebody I guess, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard it) to as Chocolate City but that damn sure isn’t going to work.

 

There are certainly legends and historical stories aka Poe.  The Exorcists

 

The place was built in swampland that nobody really wanted.  Swamp Rats

 

The DC bird is a Wood Thrush

 

Bluestone is a type of rock found in the Potomac but that wouldn’t work w the color scheme.

Thrushers isn't bad actually. Pretty incredible birds. Smart as hell.

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3 hours ago, stoshuaj said:

Since we’ve pretty much beaten the hell out of the current options and with this in mind:  “so we end up with a name like the Ravens (agree with whoever saidit--excellent marketing and strategy behind that” what would be some DC centric cultural/historical references akin to Poe/Ravens?

 

It used to be referred (by somebody I guess, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard it) to as Chocolate City but that damn sure isn’t going to work.

 

There are certainly legends and historical stories aka Poe.  The Exorcists

 

The place was built in swampland that nobody really wanted.  Swamp Rats

 

The DC bird is a Wood Thrush

 

Bluestone is a type of rock found in the Potomac but that wouldn’t work w the color scheme.

You left out (probably on purpose) through DC dinosaur Capitalsaurus 😉 ... Washington Wood Thrush isn't the worst name I've heard .. just make the logo as mean looking as possible

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22 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

So you're in charge of what native americans are aloud to be offended by? lol. Just stop with that dumb ****. I posted a WaPo article that included the time line of the entire thing earlier. 

 

It's been a problem for a very long time.

 

How the **** does this conversation keep going to this? It's a slur. It's official and everyone except a small group of fans of the team get it.

Not NA myself, but my friends are. Lumbee tribe. They wear Redskins bling every day. Two of the local high school teams in the area are Redskins and Warriors. They refuse to change their names because A.) they are predominantly NA and B.) they aren't about to let some whiny-assed liberal douches tell them if they should be offended or not.

I myself never wanted to change the name. But I myself would rather stay the WFT then some sterilized nuvo-crap. But, hey, as long as ya'll feel good, I guess that's all that matters.

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