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WFT Branding Study (Part 2)


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39 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

That was my understanding from the original complaints Spearfeather. I also personally think using any links to Native Americans is a bad idea because the people that got the name changed in the first place will just wade back in to get the new name changed. It's a shame because "Warriors", with a Native American theme would be awesome, but someone somewhere is going to find it racist.

 

If that's the case then why would the team post a submission containing references to the American Indian ?

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3 hours ago, Spearfeather said:

 

If that's the case then why would the team post a submission containing references to the American Indian ?

They went from 60 million people to 800,000 in a very short and brutal time as we took America from them. They've had to live in god awful conditions pushed into garbage waste land parts of the country good for nothing except oil and their misery. The pride they once had is now long gone for the good of America and they don't want to be a mascot for America's sports teams. 

 

I think that's totally fair. A team going from and obvious slur of a name, then keeping the imagery that promoted thinking of them as only savages and calling it warriors isn't going to slide, which is why they are already been fighting the warriors to change it. 

Edited by Koolblue13
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8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

They went from 60 million people to 800,000 in a very short and brutal time as we took America from them. They were treated worse than African slaves during and after slavery, they've had to live in god awful conditions pushed into garbage waste land parts of the country good for nothing except oil and their misery. The pride they once had is now long gone for the good of America and they don't want to be a mascot for America's sports teams. 

 

I think that's totally fair. A team going from and obvious slur of a name, then keeping the imagery that promoted thinking of them as only savages and calling it warriors isn't going to slide, which is why they are already been fighting the warriors to change it. 

 

Comparing two groups is one of the most effective ways to have people who disagree with you discount the rest of your points and galvanize their opposing views.

I'd edit the first part of that second sentence so that people hear you rather than roll their eyes.

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6 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Comparing two groups is one of the most effective ways to have people who disagree with you discount the rest of your points and galvanize their opposing views.

I'd edit the first part of that second sentence so that people hear you rather than roll their eyes.

 

I logged in to say the exact same thing.

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7 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Comparing two groups is one of the most effective ways to have people who disagree with you discount the rest of your points and galvanize their opposing views.

I'd edit the first part of that second sentence so that people hear you rather than roll their eyes.

That's a great point, thank you and done. Rumble is a great documentary about it. I watched it because I love link wray and was blown away.

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1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's a great point, thank you and done. Rumble is a great documentary about it. I watched it because I love link wray and was blown away.

 

I'm a social worker.  Not only have I been there with arguing in that manner, I'm ALWAYS there. :cheers:

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2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That's a great point, thank you and done. Rumble is a great documentary about it. I watched it because I love link wray and was blown away.

 

At first I thought link wray was a typo lol...

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1 minute ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I'm a social worker.  Not only have I been there with arguing in that manner, I'm ALWAYS there. :cheers:

Using one marginalized group to belittle another is absolutely wrong and I appreciate the check.

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

At first I thought link wray was a typo lol...

He's the originator of rock and roll in my opinion. 

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12 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

They went from 60 million people to 800,000 in a very short and brutal time as we took America from them. They were treated worse than African slaves during and after slavery, they've had to live in god awful conditions pushed into garbage waste land parts of the country good for nothing except oil and their misery. The pride they once had is now long gone for the good of America and they don't want to be a mascot for America's sports teams. 

 

I think that's totally fair. A team going from and obvious slur of a name, then keeping the imagery that promoted thinking of them as only savages and calling it warriors isn't going to slide, which is why they are already been fighting the warriors to change it. 

 

There's so much wrong with this little diatribe, I don't know where to begin, and this isn't the place to do it.

And Native Americans are one of many groups being consulted on the new name.

 

 

Hail to the Redskins.

 

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1 minute ago, Spearfeather said:

 

There's so much wrong with this little diatribe, I don't know where to begin, and this isn't the place to do it.

And Native Americans are one of many groups being consulted on the new name.

 

 

Hail to the Redskins.

 

I'm pretty sure its exactly the place and the reason we're changing it. It's a shame its forced and not proactive, but you obviously are running on your own valued opinion and emotions.

 

Howl with the Redwolves!

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6 hours ago, Painkiller said:

Nope, I'm a Heavy Metal/Hard Rock diehard... (partial to NWOBHM-New Wave of British Heavy Metal) and a HUGE fan of the Judas Priest album "Painkiller"  I picked that name after initially going by "Resurrection" (the name of Rob Halford's comeback metal album from 2000 with his solo band...Halford)

 

 

We definitely agree on a love of Priest. In fact, "Sentinels" would be my second choice, easily. It references an amazing Priest song, AND I don't think there's a branch of the military much more badass and well-trained than the Sentinels who guard the Tomb of the Unknown. Obviously I'm all in on Redwolves and would be as disappointed if they DON'T pick it as it seems you would be if they do. But I could also ride with "Sentinels." It's a shame the baggage is there from the movie, though. That would probably work against it. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, -JB- said:

What’s cooler?  A Warrior or a Red Wolf?  

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I'll take option 2 all day. I want something I can really relate to on a visceral and visual level. "Warriors" is way too generic, and I don't want some Spartan logo on a helmet. Best they can do is a big "W" and nothing else if they choose Warriors. How else would they represent it? Every option is problematic. A gun? A soldier? A character from the movie? Again, if we could keep the Native American imagery, I would possibly change my tune. I became a fan of this team as a boy BECAUSE of that imagery. I was fanatical about NA culture. I long thought the name should be changed, but I was always hoping the imagery would be preserved. To me it was incredibly inspiring and beautiful, and it connected with my soul. With that gone, so is any interest I have in "Warriors." The wolf motif still has that NA connection to me without being overt, and the Red Wolf cause has really grabbed me emotionally. The image of that wolf ****ing kills me. I would love to have that associated with my team. 

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54 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

They went from 60 million people to 800,000 in a very short and brutal time as we took America from them. .....

This is only somewhat true.  Many died, but  you make it sound like the Europeans murdered 59 million people.  That is just not even close to true.  

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1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 They've had to live in god awful conditions pushed into garbage waste land parts of the country good for nothing except oil and their misery. 

Jeez man, Oklahoma isn't THAT bad. 😁

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5 hours ago, Painkiller said:

Warriors are the heroes at Walter Reed.  Warriors are the medical professionals saving lives at Georgetown.  Warriors are the public safety personnel serving their communities in the DMV.  Warriors are our active duty military personnel at Joint Base Andrews and Pax Naval Air Station among others.  Our current coach Is a Warrior who fought his cancer battle and won.  The elderly Veteran at the World War 2 Memorial is a Warrior.  Alex Smith is a Warrior who overcame incredible odds to return to the field.  Warriors were our legendary players who won Championships in Gibbs I.


Our team would represent all those Warriors and more.  There is no more fitting name for this team.

How anybody could say Warriors as a team name in FOOTBALL is generic boggles the mind!

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2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Howl with the Redwolves!

If the team name becomes the "Redwolves" Im going to be disappointed for sure but will deal with it.  But if "Howl with the Redwolves" becomes the replacement for Hail to the Redskins Ill frankly be really embarrassed.  

 

To each their own but damn that's bad IMO. 

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44 minutes ago, -JB- said:

How anybody could say Warriors as a team name in FOOTBALL is generic boggles the mind!

 

I think it is two pronged

 

For a lot of casual people, who are not looking for any kind of deeper meaning in a moniker, they probably look at this name and feel that it is way too on the nose for a Football team. Its almost like having a team of drivers and calling them The Racers. Or having a team of Boxers and calling them The Fighters. While both names are accurate, they feel pretty uninspired and... Generic.

 

 

For people that want to have deeper meaning in their name, the problem is almost the exact opposite, even though we end up with the same result. The term Warriors is very wide and encompassing. If you pair it with specific logos or factions that goes a long way to help, but we don't have that right now.

 

As @Painkiller pointed out, a warrior can be a lot of things. Some people will see it as a soldier. Others a NA fighter. Others a Spartan. Others still a front line worker. When posed with the idea of a warrior, the general conscious is pretty hazy.

 

If your logo is a spartan helmet, (something like Michigan St.) that would greatly lessen the haze, and focus the idea, but when we are just talking about names that luxury does not exist.

 

 

A name like Redwolves offers a pretty singular concept within the populace. The same can be said for just Wolves.

 

Hogs, Razorbacks, Monuments, ect., also benefit from this. You don't need any kind of logo to focus the idea. You just know what it is right off the bat.

 

A lot of people want their team name to represent something, and the name Warriors by itself represents everything. As such it represents nothing. Since it does not have a distinguishing set of characteristics to set it apart, it is again viewed as generic.

 

Without some kind of focusing tool, a name like Warriors is hurt greatly.

 

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2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Is this gonna become the name/emblem suggestion thread or is that still banned? lol...

Good point. I thought this was the place. I've certainly hit some soft spots about the plight of native Americans as well as our wars and my view of war in general. It hasn't gotten too heated though.

2 hours ago, ILikeBilly said:

This is only somewhat true.  Many died, but  you make it sound like the Europeans murdered 59 million people.  That is just not even close to true.  

Americas real history is pretty ugly.

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1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

A lot of people want their team name to represent something, and the name Warriors by itself represents everything. As such it represents nothing.

 

 

EXACTLY! By making a point to show how "Warriors" is such a broad choice that could encompass just about anybody or anything, you actually show why it's ultimately a very WEAK choice from a marketing perspective. I'm not guaranteeing the name will be "Redwolves" by any stretch of the imagination. But I will guarantee right here and now that it will NOT be "Warriors." 

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22 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

 

But I will guarantee right here and now that it will NOT be "Warriors." 

 

Agreed. About as likely as us being named the Yankees or the Lakers. Never gonna happen. Won't be allowed to happen

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9 hours ago, Painkiller said:

 

and irrational reactions to those feelings.  We go as the wind blows.

Time to break that wind.

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Agreed. About as likely as us being named the Yankees or the Lakers. Never gonna happen. Won't be allowed to happen

I hope they don't shoehorn a name simply because it fits the area, like Monuments or Generals.

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7 hours ago, Spearfeather said:

 

There's so much wrong with this little diatribe, I don't know where to begin, and this isn't the place to do it.


Agreed, and for the record there was never a poll conducted scientifically that showed the majority of Native Americans or anything close to it had a problem with the name.  I think there are many that definitely feel the way Koolblue has described, but to say “they” as if they all agreed on this is a real stretch.  I have talked to some that are disappointed at best and devastated at worst the name was changed.

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4 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

EXACTLY! By making a point to show how "Warriors" is such a broad choice that could encompass just about anybody or anything, you actually show why it's ultimately a very WEAK choice from a marketing perspective. I'm not guaranteeing the name will be "Redwolves" by any stretch of the imagination. But I will guarantee right here and now that it will NOT be "Warriors." 

then tell me the name that checks all the boxes that the organization wants that doesn’t sound ridiculous.
 

Redwolves doesn’t have any real connection to the area, and there is no real nod to the military either.  I would take Sentinels any day regardless of the Replacements movie.  

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