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The Covid Vaccine Thread


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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

Attacking the person is ALWAYS a weak argument.  Attack the argument, and if you can't, then you probably shouldn't really say anything


You can look at data from Israel which pretty clearly shows that even the mutant strains are not spreading in a population with ~55% vaccination rate. Even the UK data shows this, and they have lower rate of fully vaccinated people.
 

Spare me the “don’t say anything”. Around this time last year, you were arguing with me that masks don’t work (and in fact may actually cause disease LOL) and data isn’t there to support masking (both points were wrong, but that didn’t stop you). 

Edited by No Excuses
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

I don't think it is all outrageous to suggest that if we are on a track to get back to "normal" is questionable.  That'll depend on things that aren't clear year about the evolution of this virus.).

I also think this is a loaded goal. 
 

“get back to normal” means something different for everyone. 
 

For instance for me:

my son is in school 4 days a week instead of 5, however there’s only 3 weeks left and they’ve decided to let things ride and change for next year. 
International travel concerns me. I’m not even sure to what degree it concerns me. But, we’re planning things now and just keeping a close eye. 
 

otherwise I’m back to normal. 
 

minus wearing a mask out of respect when situations call for it. and those situations will be few and far between because while I don’t know anyone with a legit medical reason to not be vaccinated, I know tons of clowns with reasons. 
 

and I’m not interested in going out of my way for the clowns. 
 


Ps -  I also think, generally speaking, almost every opinion stated that uses the word “safe” is loaded as well.

Edited by tshile
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1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

Ugh. 🤦‍♂️

 

 

 

Happy to no longer give my business to idiots

 

10 minutes ago, tshile said:

 minus wearing a mask out of respect when situations call for it. and those situations will be few and far between because while I don’t know anyone with a legit medical reason to not be vaccinated, I know tons of clowns with reasons. 

 

and I’m not interested in going out of my way for the clowns. 

 

Pretty much where I'm at.  Once everyone, including children, is eligible for vaccination, I have very little concern for people who get sick because they choose to not get vaccinated.

 

It's unfortunate for the very small sliver of the population that legitimately can't get vaccinated (no, not "I can't get the vaccine because I am prone to seasonal allergies, so allergic reaction concerns me".  Even people with Guillain Barre history should get the vaccine according to the GBS/CIDP foundation).  But we can't completely fix stupid, so they will have to adjust as best they can.

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Posted (edited)

Sadly what has been largely underreported is how likely mask wearing and social distancing eliminated verified cases of the seasonal flu in Fall/Winter 2020.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-has-disappeared-worldwide-during-the-covid-pandemic1/#click=https://t.co/pBzaIYjYkW

 

60674126-A8B7-4FDF-A23D655CC5E98682_sour

 

I for one, despite being fully vaccinated, will be wearing my mask while shopping and amongst other large groups. It's a minor inconvenience for me but I would prefer not to get the flu like I did in early (January) 2020. Plus, I'd suspect even the unvaccinated will forgo mask wearing once the majority of the vaccinated do. Good times for the immuno-compromised.  

Edited by The Evil Genius
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13 minutes ago, bearrock said:

It's unfortunate for the very small sliver of the population that legitimately can't get vaccinated (no, not "I can't get the vaccine because I am prone to seasonal allergies, so allergic reaction concerns me".  Even people with Guillain Barre history should get the vaccine according to the GBS/CIDP foundation).  But we can't completely fix stupid, so they will have to adjust as best they can.

I’ve listened to enough experts talk about it to know that it’s a very small percentage of people with a legit situation. 
 

im not an asshole. If someone has a legit reason I’ll respect it. 
 

but I’m also not stupid. 
 

and the cross over between the anti-maskers/social distancing stuff and the non vaccinated is real and large. These are the same people forming Facebook groups to not report having covid so the numbers don’t spike so there aren’t lockdowns. 
 

and so many of these people have spent the last 14 months making this worse, making the rest of us suffer more than needed, so now?

 

**** them. 
 

I only care about the ones with kids that won’t get vaccinated because the parents are crazy morons. Otherwise idgaf about them. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, No Excuses said:


You can look at data from Israel which pretty clearly shows that even the mutant strains are not spreading in a population with ~55% vaccination rate. Even the UK data shows this, and they have lower rate of fully vaccinated people.
 

Spare me the “don’t say anything”. Around this time last year, you were arguing with me that masks don’t work (and in fact may actually cause disease LOL) and data isn’t there to support masking (both points were wrong, but that didn’t stop you). 

 

Is the Nature piece I posted wrong?

 

Israel still has pretty large restrictions in place, especially for the unvaccinated part of their population.  Things certainly aren't normal there (they aren't depending only on vaccines to control the spread).

 

The UK is similar and both countries have concerns about the new variants.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/world/uk-covid-india.html

 

(It is also a logical fallacy to dismiss an argument from somebody because the person has been wrong in the past.  That leads to a state where nobody can be "right" because everybody has been wrong in the past.

 

Now, like you've done here, you are misrepresenting the situation (starting by saying he isn't an epidemiologist while it appears he is.)

 

From the start of our discussion with masks I made the point that this virus might different and made a distinction between different people wearing masks (e.g. doctors and sick people vs. the non-sick general public):

 

  

On 3/30/2020 at 12:00 PM, PeterMP said:

 

1.  Yes, doctors that are interacting closely with sick people and can't practice distancing should wear masks and glove and goggles too.

 

But that's not the general public.

 

(and even there, it is only certain masks)

2.  For many viruses, including this  one, there isn't a strong relationship between viral load and severity of the disease.  People that are getting sicker don't necessarily have more of the virus.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238819-does-a-high-viral-load-or-infectious-dose-make-covid-19-worse/

 

And I'm not at all sure that there's ever a relationship between the amount of initial viral exposure and the viral load at the height of the disease for any virus.

 

Your logic that being exposed initially to less virus means less of viral load at the height of the disease leads to a less serious illness  is not accurate.  Sort of like wearing masks, it sounds good, but there are other factors that are likely more important factors (e.g. does wearing a mask cause you to touch your face even more).

 

3.  Yes, the CDC might change their guidelines, and as I said initially, this virus might be different.

 

Though I will admit to being "wrong" in some context in that I think the masks have been more significant than I would have guessed due to the now apparent lack of surface-to-face transmission of this virus.  Picking this virus up on a surface on your hands and then getting infected from rubbing your eyes/touching your face appears not to be a major factor at all.  But that wasn't something that just I was wrong about.

 

Even if you did accurately reflect my previous position on masks, which you didn't, that isn't really evidence that I'm wrong now.

 

And even now, the utility of masks for the general public (not people that are sick or have to directly care for the sick) is still questionable:

 

e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33944744/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32579379/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32987183/

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/first-randomized-control-trial-shows-face-masks-did-not-reduce-coronavirus-infections-with-statistical-significance/ar-BB1b8zo2

 

I suspect the utility of masks is directly related to the amount and success of testing, contact tracing, and exposed people self-quarantining, the type of masks, people wearing them properly etc.)

Edited by PeterMP
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tshile said:

I also think this is a loaded goal. 
 

“get back to normal” means something different for everyone. 
 

For instance for me:

my son is in school 4 days a week instead of 5, however there’s only 3 weeks left and they’ve decided to let things ride and change for next year. 
International travel concerns me. I’m not even sure to what degree it concerns me. But, we’re planning things now and just keeping a close eye. 
 

otherwise I’m back to normal. 
 

minus wearing a mask out of respect when situations call for it. and those situations will be few and far between because while I don’t know anyone with a legit medical reason to not be vaccinated, I know tons of clowns with reasons. 
 

and I’m not interested in going out of my way for the clowns. 
 


Ps -  I also think, generally speaking, almost every opinion stated that uses the word “safe” is loaded as well.

 

I mean in terms of the larger country/society.  Which to me means large in door gatherings are safe without masks and crowd control.

 

I'm not sure we're ever going to get to the point where you can go to a concert with no risks of getting Covid.  The question appears to be can we get to the point that the risks are similar to the flu.

Edited by PeterMP
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2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I mean in terms of the larger country/society.  Which to me means large in door gatherings are safe without masks and crown control.

 

I'm not sure we're ever going to get to the point where you can go to a concert with no risks of getting Covid.  The question appears to be can we get to the point that the risks are similar to the flu.

Agreed. 
 

I think the idea there will be no risk is a ship that sailed about a year ago when it became clear half our country was incapable of putting their dumb to the side for a minute and being an adult. 

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5 hours ago, Ball Security said:

Other epidemiologists question whether the vaccines alone are preventing infections or if it’s a combination of the vaccines with others wearing masks.  They are hesitant about the CDC’s guidance.

 

Personally, I’m at the point now where I’ll carry a mask around with me, but only throw it on if I go into a store or place that requires it.  I also have two unvaccinated children at home.  

 

Eric Feigl-Ding is an alarmist who has used the pandemic to fearmonger people into eventually donating to him personally – the grift was recently revealed. He also has repeatedly misinterpreted basic data and math. His focus is on nutrition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Young people demand vaccination requirements for reopening

 

Three-quarters of people between 18-29 say vaccination should be required to return to campus or work, according to new Generation Lab/Axios polling, and 37% would refuse to come back unless those conditions are in place.

 

Why it matters: Young workers have put pressure on CEOs to take action on social and political issues and have plenty of capital to exert it on reopening policy.

 

The polling suggests that a "get the shot" ultimatum could be pretty effective.

 

Among the young people polled who aren't vaccinated, 66% said that if it was required to return to campus or work, they would get the vaccine.


15% would try to switch jobs or schools, while 13% would refuse to get the vaccine and still try to work or attend school.


2% said they would forge proof.


The big picture: 18-29 year-olds are the least vaccinated adult age group relative to their population size, though they've also been eligible for a shorter period of time.

 

Click on the link for the full article

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My firm is discussing re-opening our offices around Labor Day and whether or not to mandate vaccines is a big topic of discussion.  Most people, as far as I can tell, want the mandate, the issue is whether the firm can require you to submit medical information  

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10 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

My firm is discussing re-opening our offices around Labor Day and whether or not to mandate vaccines is a big topic of discussion.  Most people, as far as I can tell, want the mandate, the issue is whether the firm can require you to submit medical information  

 

That's something I hadn't considered until now. I suppose you can shoe your vaccination card and not divulge any other health information. Then provisions need to be made for those who won't for any reason. Work from home if that makes sense or something else.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

My firm is discussing re-opening our offices around Labor Day and whether or not to mandate vaccines is a big topic of discussion.  Most people, as far as I can tell, want the mandate, the issue is whether the firm can require you to submit medical information  

 

I wonder how this differs from temperature checks and yes/no question/symptoms check at the front door of work? We've had those screenings for a year plus. 

Edited by The Evil Genius
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17 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

My firm is discussing re-opening our offices around Labor Day and whether or not to mandate vaccines is a big topic of discussion.  Most people, as far as I can tell, want the mandate, the issue is whether the firm can require you to submit medical information  


See if maybe the company health plan can require it?  Or "the company is demanding proof of vaccination, to try to get lower rates"?

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Firm just sent out some guidance on their thinking.  "We are actively considering requiring vaccines for all employees (subject to reasonable accommodations for religious, medical exceptions and as otherwise required by law)."

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

BTW I am and have been pro vaccine passport all the way. 

Im an immigrant and a father, the idea that vaccines are required for entry are nothing new to me.  

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Little bummed I never got to have masked sex. Wife thought it was a weird ask. 
 

now that the statewide mandate is gone it’s not the same. 
 

oh well. 

1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

BTW I am and have been pro vaccine passport all the way. 

I am too just because **** those people. 
 

keep them out of my child’s school too. 
 

legit reason? I get it. 
 

Ignorance? I’m tired of just allowing it to be ok. Either wake up or be excluded. 

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