The Vaccine Thread

[TheGoodBits]

Been dealing with 4 vaccine-skeptic family members for months. Two of them got their shots, one *finally* signed up for the J&J shot this Saturday. Incredibly frustrating decision to pause those vaccines after extremely rare side effects that may or may not be related to the shot. 

[China]

Tweaked COVID vaccines in testing aim to fend off variants

 

Dozens of Americans are rolling up their sleeves for a third dose of COVID-19 vaccine — this time, shots tweaked to guard against a worrisome mutated version of the virus.

 

Make no mistake: The vaccines currently being rolled out across the U.S. offer strong protection. But new studies of experimental updates to the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines mark a critical first step toward an alternative if the virus eventually outsmarts today’s shots.

 

“We need to be ahead of the virus,” said Dr. Nadine Rouphael of Emory University, who is helping to lead a study of Moderna’s tweaked candidate. “We know what it’s like when we’re behind.”

 

It’s not clear if or when protection would wane enough to require an update but, “realistically we want to turn COVID into a sniffle,” she added.

 

Viruses constantly evolve, and the world is in a race to vaccinate millions and tamp down the coronavirus before even more mutants emerge. More than 119 million Americans have had at least one vaccine dose, and 22% of the population is fully vaccinated, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Much of the rest of the world is far behind that pace.

 

Already an easier-to-spread version found in Britain just months ago has become the most common variant now circulating in the United States, one that’s fortunately vaccine-preventable.

 

But globally, there’s concern that first-generation vaccines may offer less protection against a different variant that first emerged in South Africa. All the major vaccine makers are tweaking their recipes in case an update against that so-called B.1.351 virus is needed. Now experimental doses from Moderna and Pfizer are being put to the test.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[TD_washingtonredskins]

20 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I mean this as an honest question. What does it mean to you when you hear the vaccine is not fully approved by the FDA? I am not sure many people really understand what that means as there has been so much misinformation out there.  

 

The only thing different between Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) or applying for a license through a Biologics License Application (BLA) ie - full FDA Approval - is the monitoring period. That is it. There are no additional efficacy tests, there were no shortcuts taken in the testing process, there is nothing more than a longer monitoring period to look for rare long term reactions. The EUA allows the use of a vaccine before the full monitoring period is over. Nothing more. 

That's fair...but when those "rare long term reactions" are also the most likely complication from the actual virus that's when the cost-benefit analysis begins to seem logical. I'm not an anti-vaxxer at all. My kids got all their shots for public school, etc. It's just that when you hear about side effects, blood clots, and then know that what's lacking in the approval of the vaccines are the long-term reactions, it starts to make you wonder why running out to get the vaccine is truly such a slam dunk decision. 

[Captain Wiggles]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wcnc.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/it-helped-me-out-tremendously-covid-long-hauler-says-vaccine-got-rid-of-lasting-symptoms/275-7fac5520-f1a3-4ddf-a80a-ed035c3b8bed

 

Quote

 As millions race to get vaccinated, some say the vaccines aren't only preventing COVID-19, they're also making them feel better.

Several patients who have suffered through 'Long COVID,' a long hauler dealing with symptoms weeks or even months after contracting the virus, are finally feeling like themselves again after receiving COVID-19 vaccines. 

 

Just another good reason to go get vaccinated. 

[The Evil Genius]

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by The Evil Genius

[CobraCommander]

Got my second shot at Kaiser Cap Hill on Sunday. Took the elevator with a healthcare worker who I talked to briefly. She said she was scared to get the vaccine. I don't even know what to say to that person. I just shook my head and walked away when the doors opened. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

10 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

Got my second shot at Kaiser Cap Hill on Sunday. Took the elevator with a healthcare worker who I talked to briefly. She said she was scared to get the vaccine. I don't even know what to say to that person. I just shook my head and walked away when the doors opened. 

 

Nice thing to think or say about a person, tbh.

 

I know a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum (from conservative to very liberal) who are uneasy about this vaccine. I don't think passing judgment on other people for struggling with this decision is exactly a nice thing to do. And for you to project your beliefs and judgments on them is pretty ****ty. And it's not just you, I am seeing this all over the place now.

Edited April 13, 2021 by JamesMadisonSkins

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Nice thing to think or say about a person, tbh.

 

I know a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum (from conservative to very liberal) who are uneasy about this vaccine. I don't think passing judgment on other people for struggling with this decision is exactly a nice thing to do. And for you to project your beliefs and judgments on them is pretty ****ty. And it's not just you, I am seeing this all over the place now.

My thoughts too...so many people these days are so high and mighty about everything if they don't get instant and complete agreement from others. It's really quite jarring how far we've gone as a society in that way. 

[tshile]

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/joint-cdc-and-fda-statement-johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine

 

6 cases of women with low platelet counts getting blood clots and stroke-like issues with J&J.

 

Yay me.....

 

(honestly i'm more concerned it just fuels the you can't trust the vaccine crap, as opposed to something happening to me, but still yay me and whoever else here got it)

[CobraCommander]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Nice thing to think or say about a person, tbh.

 

I know a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum (from conservative to very liberal) who are uneasy about this vaccine. I don't think passing judgment on other people for struggling with this decision is exactly a nice thing to do. And for you to project your beliefs and judgments on them is pretty ****ty. And it's not just you, I am seeing this all over the place now.

I'm not sorry. I've had covid, it ****ing sucked, The vaccine is a cake walk in comparison and the more people that get it, the better off we all are as a society. I'm done with this ****. 

[The Evil Genius]

3 minutes ago, Florgon79 said:

I've had covid, it ****ing sucked, The vaccine is a cake walk in comparison and the more people that get it, the better off we all are as a society. 

 

Personally I would lead with that the next time a person tells you they are scared of the vaccine (in case you don't know what to say again).

 

It's effective. 

[CobraCommander]

Just now, The Evil Genius said:

 

Personally I would lead with that the next time a person tells you they are scared of the vaccine (in case you don't know what to say again).

 

It's effective. 

I will. I think the shock of seeing someone in scrubs with a mask and face shield saying that made me shut down.

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

My thoughts too...so many people these days are so high and mighty about everything if they don't get instant and complete agreement from others. It's really quite jarring how far we've gone as a society in that way. 

 

I'm super tired of this nonsense justification.

 

There's nothing wrong with disagreement.

 

It's what the disagreement is founded on. If it's founded on hand waving then you look like a fool to people who understand the difference between hand waving and using data/facts/science.

 

Opinions are not to be inherently respected. It's how you form your opinion that should be respected (or not.)

 

What cracks me up is every time something like this happens with the CDC or medical community, the hand-waving skeptics use it as proof that they're correct, when in reality it's proof that they are wrong and the system is working as intended in being cautious and keeping a close eye on things.

 

In my personal experience the skeptics also tend to be skeptical of other things in silly ways. Cure is worse than the disease with the lock downs, for instance.

[Dan T.]

22 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Nice thing to think or say about a person, tbh.

 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

All fine and good @tshile but it's still the holier than thou attitude. I personally don't really care if my opinion is respected by all...but it's the complete dismissal and condescending nature that I'm "super tired" of. Narratives and talking points change so rapidly it seems...

 

When COVID was ramping up, the things I heard all the time was that even one person falling ill or dying is too much. Now, with the vaccine that has some side effects and other unknowns to it, it's a completely different narrative. 

 

As I've stated above, I plan to get the vaccine and I'm pre-registered. My parents have gotten it. I'm not someone assuming the government is trying to chip me. With all that said, I wouldn't blame someone who doesn't see the risk of catching COVID as any more severe than the unknown risks of a vaccine at this time. It's not some ridiculous or outlandish stance. And, even though I don't agree with them personally, I'm able to not mock them or shake my head at them and walk away quietly. 

[tshile]

@TD_washingtonredskins

just to be clear, I was speaking strictly about the comment on instant agreement. 
 

I don’t know if you’re “hesitant” about the vaccine or why. I don’t know what that is founded on for you. I don’t know if that’s because you haven’t posted it, or you did and I didn’t read it, or I read it and forgot. 
 

im just speaking to the idea that just because someone instantly shuts you down doesn’t mean they’re unwilling to talk to someone with a differing opinion. 
 

Personally I’ve found I learn the most when talking with it reading something from someone with a very differing opinion. I respect it greatly. I actually try to seek it out when I find it. 
 

but a lot of people have ****ty opinions and I tend to point that out rather quickly when they are revealed because they’re usually easy to spot and usually part of that persons personality/character/history and the real issue is that they’re just generally uninformed people who love to form opinions on things they know nothing about and then get in dumb arguments over them. 
 

usually. 

[CobraCommander]

Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

And, even though I don't agree with them personally, I'm able to not mock them or shake my head at them and walk away quietly. 

Well I guess you're just a better person than me. Congratulations.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

@TD_washingtonredskins

just to be clear, I was speaking strictly about the comment on instant agreement. 
 

I don’t know if you’re “hesitant” about the vaccine or why. I don’t know what that is founded on for you. I don’t know if that’s because you haven’t posted it, or you did and I didn’t read it, or I read it and forgot. 
 

im just speaking to the idea that just because someone instantly shuts you down doesn’t mean they’re unwilling to talk to someone with a differing opinion. 
 

Personally I’ve found I learn the most when talking with it reading something from someone with a very differing opinion. I respect it greatly. I actually try to seek it out when I find it. 
 

but a lot of people have ****ty opinions and I tend to point that out rather quickly when they are revealed because they’re usually easy to spot and usually part of that persons personality/character/history and the real issue is that they’re just generally uninformed people who love to form opinions on things they know nothing about and then get in dumb arguments over them. 
 

usually. 

I've found that as well. I love talking to people I don't see eye-to-eye with much more than I do people who share my same opinion. 

[tshile]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

it's still the holier than thou attitude

If you can’t grow up past the “I form opinions without looking into it first” issue in growing up, then yes. Definitely. Absolutely. Every time. 
 

if an adult isn’t willing to at least try to inform themselves before taking a strong stance on something then they deserve ridicule. It’s a core of k-12 teaching, in many ways. So if you made it to adulthood and still can’t figure it out, especially when it comes to something important, then yeah maybe what you need is to be ridiculed into changing your basic ways of forming an opinion. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, tshile said:

If you can’t grow up past the “I form opinions without looking into it first” issue in growing up, then yes. Definitely. Absolutely. Every time. 
 

if an adult isn’t willing to at least try to inform themselves before taking a strong stance on something then they deserve ridicule. It’s a core of k-12 teaching, in many ways. So if you made it to adulthood and still can’t figure it out, especially when it comes to something important, then yeah maybe what you need is to be ridiculed into changing your basic ways of forming an opinion. 

I don't go into discussions with others assuming that they haven't done research. That mentality is most of the issue I mentioned. Who am I to assume I'm better informed than someone who's making decisions impacting his or her health??

[tshile]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

When COVID was ramping up, the things I heard all the time was that even one person falling ill or dying is too much. Now, with the vaccine that has some side effects and other unknowns to it, it's a completely different narrative. 

I don’t think this is fair. 
 

I don’t think it’s fair to judge reaction to a new virus that was ravaging entire countries/states, as experts were working tirelessly to figure it out, the same way we judge vaccines that have been in the works for over a year and are based off technology that has been worked on for a while and subjected to peer reviews and such. 
 

I think a little leeway should be given to the people who are experts trying to work in a crisis. 
 

I mean unless those judging could do better?

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I don't go into discussions with others assuming that they haven't done research. That mentality is most of the issue I mentioned. Who am I to assume I'm better informed than someone who's making decisions impacting his or her health??

Sure, but usually there are flags.... if you follow a topic close enough, you can spot those people immediately based on how they open their opinion. It just is what it is. 
 

there’s a reason you don’t catch some of our smarter posters ever, ever talking like that. If you follow the various threads on science, economics, and politics you know what I’m talking about. 
 

and if you follow enough threads closely you can identify the flags of trolls, or people that’s extent of their information is the read a thread on Twitter 20 minutes ago. 
 

(and for it’s worth I accidentally do that crap here from time and time and usually I get pounced on immediately by one of our smarter posters, and rightfully so)

[bcl05]

16 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

With all that said, I wouldn't blame someone who doesn't see the risk of catching COVID as any more severe than the unknown risks of a vaccine at this time. It's not some ridiculous or outlandish stance. 

 

This is not true.  It is ridiculous, outlandish, and, actually, really really dumb to think that the risks of the vaccine are comparable to the risk of the virus.  No credible or intelligent analysis of the available data would come to any conclusion other than to vaccinate as many people as possible as soon as possible.  People are entitled to their own opinions, but we have good data and these are facts, not opinions.  

 

I see no reason to respect or approve of ignorance. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, bcl05 said:

 

This is not true.  It is ridiculous, outlandish, and, actually, really really dumb to think that the risks of the vaccine are comparable to the risk of the virus.  No credible or intelligent analysis of the available data would come to any conclusion other than to vaccinate as many people as possible as soon as possible.  People are entitled to their own opinions, but we have good data and these are facts, not opinions.  

 

I see no reason to respect or approve of ignorance. 

You have certain demographics who are at very little risk of anything serious happening with the virus. You also have at least one vaccine being "paused" by the CDC. I disagree it's ignorant for someone to delay their vaccine if they aren't overly concerned about the virus and want more information about the vaccines. It's odd to me that this is so black and white to everyone. 

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, bcl05 said:

 

This is not true.  It is ridiculous, outlandish, and, actually, really really dumb to think that the risks of the vaccine are comparable to the risk of the virus.  No credible or intelligent analysis of the available data would come to any conclusion other than to vaccinate as many people as possible as soon as possible.  People are entitled to their own opinions, but we have good data and these are facts, not opinions.  

 

I see no reason to respect or approve of ignorance. 

the only thing I’ve hear that seems to have merit is the rushed timeline. 
 

now, I don’t dabble in circles where this sort of mentality (“vaccine hesitancy” seems to be the polite term) is a thing and regularly discussed, so it’s not like I’m aware of all the arguments. 
 

and I’m certainly not an expert in any field related (though I feel a kinship as a programmer with the mRNA people! How ****ing cool is that tech!!) 

 

But I think it’s healthy to have skepticism about a rushed process. 
 

and as a person that feels that way, I took the first vaccine available to me. 
 

🤷‍♂️

[The Evil Genius]

6 minutes ago, bcl05 said:

 

This is not true.  It is ridiculous, outlandish, and, actually, really really dumb to think that the risks of the vaccine are comparable to the risk of the virus.  No credible or intelligent analysis of the available data would come to any conclusion other than to vaccinate as many people as possible as soon as possible.  People are entitled to their own opinions, but we have good data and these are facts, not opinions.  

 

I see no reason to respect or approve of ignorance. 

 

If anything,  from what I can tell..countries that got first dose administered to everyone (without reserving a 2nd dose) largely saw lower infection rates and spikes.  More proof that vaccinating early made a difference. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by The Evil Genius