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Next Day Thread (Same Day Edition): WFT vs. New Jersey I


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Offensive Summary:

 The playcalling left a bit to be desired. In particular the 2pt. conversion play at the end of the game. I'm not sure what they were looking to accomplish there, but I didn't get a good look at all the route concepts in the end zone.

 

The offense had moments where it looked like it was capable, but usually it was capped off by a bonehead play to turn the ball over. 

 

As for Kyle Allen he had two monumentally bad mistakes. The pick and the sack/fumble for 6 the other way. His TD pass in the corner to Logan Thomas was pretty and his legs buy him a little extra time and ways to create. But, when push comes to shove, Allen looks like exactly who we thought he'd be: A guy that is capable of moving the ball a little but will ultimately turn the ball over a lot more than the other quarterbacks on the roster. The offense looked different in how it accomplished its ineptitude, but the end result was the same.

 

Back to Turner, I'm really confused as to why we aren't seeing more motions and more use of the two pass catching weapons. Lining them up all over the field, getting McLaurin open through their usage. I find myself wondering what the gameplan is, exactly, every single week. And that hasn't changed.

 

This team needs a quarterback in the absolute worst way. And a new offensive coordinator it looks like. I'll pump the brakes on that sentiment for a bit, but Turner should be nervous. 

 

 

Defensive Summary:

Not much to say. The defensive line is okay, a little under where we need them but the depth is depleted and Payne and Sweat are still playing some of the absolute best football they've played since they arrived on this team. Chase Young doesn't have his explosion and looks like he's playing injured, but he still managed to apply the pressure which allowed the big Kendall Fuller interception.

 

Everett was a slight upgrade to Apke, though he's been a walking personal foul. Landon Collins played another poor game in run support with poor angles and abandoning his gap responsibility based on how the plays were run on television. One has to wonder why Kam Curl hasn't gotten a chance yet and if it has anything to do with Collins' contract and them wanting to ride this out as long as they can with him due to his cost. 

 

The biggest problem this defense has, though, is the linebackers. Both scheme wise and personnel wise, in my opinion. We are often in limited boxes, where we may only have one backer at the second level presnap. The DL can reasonably hold their ground, but if the ball gets to the second level there aren't any backers there. And when they are there they aren't playing downhill and attacking but rather catching 5-6 yards down the field. There isn't any aggressive backer play happening on this team. I don't think our LB position is void of ANY talent. I think Holcomb is a guy to continue develop and KPL is a quality depth option. But this team needs starting linebackers in the worst way. It's our absolute biggest need defensively. 

 

Overall Summary:

 Given a tidbit that was posted in the Game Day Thread by @TK about a rumor that Rivera wanted Cam and Turner said he wanted Haskins... and Rivera wanted AP and/or Fournette but Turner didn't... One has to wonder significantly about a lot on this football team. 

 

I think the 2pt. conversion was a good plan. In a rough game where the defense was getting gashed kicking the extra point there can give you over time but it doesn't really give you a whole lot of extra hope. Going for two is both a "go for the win or go for the loss" move, but it doesn't leave you the possibility of a tie. It leaves the outcome strictly in your team's hands. Confident or not. With the records at 1-4 and 0-5 of the two teams competing on the field, I think the call was a good one. You either bury the Derogatory Terms for Large People or you lose the football game and show that you have no business talking about a divisional title. 

 

But the rumor that was posted leaves me seriously wondering what this franchise is doing. It's the first evidence I've seen against Rivera as the de facto GM... but it's damning. Rivera MAY have, and we don't know how involved in the org. the source is for this, went against his years of experience in wanting Newton/AP and allowed the offensive coordinator who has done virtually nothing to make key personnel moves. If Rivera had made them, I'd have faith. He's got years in the league. But if Turner wanted them and Rivera went along with it... that's scary. A true GM stops that kind of thing from happening. And again, this isn't a widely reported story to this point and I'm not sure of its accuracy but TK is generally really reliable. But that's a big issue IF it's true. Again... IF. I will withhold total judgement, but I will say that the rumor makes sense.

 

-Terry McLaurin had 7 receptions for 74 yards. He has 36 for 487 and 1 TD on the year. He's on pace for 96 receptions, 1,298 yards and 2 touchdowns on the season. Career highs in receptions and yards but 5 TDs less than last season. 

 

-This team needs a quarterback.

 

 

Studs/Duds:

*** -  Daron Payne

** - Montez Sweat

* - Kendall Fuller

:( -  Landon Collins

:(:( -   Kyle Allen

:(:( :( - Linebackers as a whole

 

 

Season Totals:

8* - Montez Sweat

5 * - Terry McLaurin

4* Antonio Gibson

4 * - Chase Young

3* - Kendall Fuller

3 * - Ryan Kerrigan

2* - Daron Payne

2* - Kendall Fuller

2 * - Jon Allen

1 *- Fabian Moreau

1 *- Jimmy Moreland

1* - Matt Ioannidis

1 :( - Secondary as a whole.

1 :( - Brandon Scherff

2 :( - Landon Collins

2 :( - Kyle Allen

2 :(  - Geron Christian

2 :( - Troy Apke

3 :( - Offensive Line as a whole.

3 :( - Wes Martin

3 :( - Steven Sims 

4 :( - Dwayne Haskins

4 :( - Coverage Unit as a whole entire thing: LBs/Safeties

5 :( - Linebackers as a whole.

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I have no reason to doubt TK other than he’s insane. 🤣

 

But why would he bring Turner in to begin with if they weren’t on the same page in terms of what QB/style they wanted to play? Just seems odd to me. Doubt Cam could be a long term solution anyway, so things could work themselves out if we draft QB next year.

 

Agree with you on the game plan. This is the most concerning for me. It looks like we don’t know what we want to do or how to do it. The energy level is terribly low and there is no sense of pride. It’s brutal.

 

This is unwatchable football. There is nothing entertaining or redeeming about it.

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6 minutes ago, London Kev said:

How do you think the Oline did, coach? To my untrained eye this seemed to be their best game (admittedly not a high bar). Real shame about Charles going out early, hope he's OK.


Without watching play by play and a cursory glance? The best game they’ve played this year. Not sure it was fantastic. But the best this season.

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I'm disappointed Young wasn't able to dominate a garbage Giants OL. They weren't even playing Andrew Thomas, they were playing his backup, and he stonewalled Young 1 on 1 with no double team help most of the day. I'm thinking he's still hurt. Payne and Sweat were excellent though. But its obvious the defense needs a complete overhaul at LB and secondary(except for Fuller). Collins in particular might be one of the biggest FA busts in team history. He can't cover fine, but he sucks in the box too. How do you get shook by Daniel freaking Jones? I can understand guys like Apke or Everett struggling, they're JAGs, but Collins is a big FA signing and former All Pro, we need more out of him.

 

Regarding the offense, this was probably the first game that I really questioned Scott Turner's playcalling. We should have tried more intermediate shots. We ran the ball into the heart of the Giants D, their DL, way too often. We should have moved Gibson out wide and let him run routes against the mediocre Giant LBs. We should target McLaurin a lot more. Allen's TD throws to Thomas and Simms, two guys who aren't exactly Travis Kelce and Julio Jones, should hopefully inspire some confidence in the playcalling to push it downfield a little bit more. I'm not asking for 50 yard bombs, but at least more 12-15 yard intermediate strikes. That's how you run an offense in today's NFL. If you're asking your offense to go on 15+ play drives every time you'll fail because at some point you'll screw up.

 

The big talk will be Ron going for 2. Me personally I loved the call and I bet the players loved it too. One play to get 2 yards to win the game. The #s say that gives you the best chance to win. In OT there is a chance you don't even see the ball if they get the ball first, and even if we stop them or get the ball first, do you trust our offense to sustain a 75+ yard play drive? I'll take my chances on one play to pick up 2 yards. Unfortunately it didn't work out, props to the Giants for covering it well. I would have probably spread them out wide and then ran a QB draw or something like a quick slant to McLaurin but meh.

 

Ultimately this was two bottom 5 teams. It looked like the South Park episode where both teams are trying to lose. But come April when we're in draft time, we'll look back and be glad we lost this one.

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57 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Without watching play by play and a cursory glance? The best game they’ve played this year. Not sure it was fantastic. But the best this season.

 

It may have been the best this season, but it was still bad. At least the pass protection was, most of the time.

 

Well, noone can blame Apke for this loss.

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Just once I would like an NFL officiating crew decide before the game what they consider Pass Interference and stick to it throughout the entire game.  In MLB it is common for homeplate umps to have their own strikezone, but at least they try to be consistent with it for the game.  In the NFL it seems like they don't even agree play to play,

 

This team is just not good, again.  After 6 games I am pretty much over even trying to analyze games afterwards anymore.  It was fun for a few weeks, but now it's like there is so little on the team worth even talking about I would rather just forget about it entirely after the game until my loyalty ropes me back in next week.

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19 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Just once I would like an NFL officiating crew decide before the game what they consider Pass Interference and stick to it throughout the entire game.  In MLB it is common for homeplate umps to have their own strikezone, but at least they try to be consistent with it for the game.  In the NFL it seems like they don't even agree play to play,

 

This team is just not good, again.  After 6 games I am pretty much over even trying to analyze games afterwards anymore.  It was fun for a few weeks, but now it's like there is so little on the team worth even talking about I would rather just forget about it entirely after the game until my loyalty ropes me back in next week.

 

These threads are hard to do when the team is so bad. There's not a whole lot to even analyze.

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1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

These threads are hard to do when the team is so bad. There's not a whole lot to even analyze.

 

Yep. It is one thing when the team is .500ish and there are ups and downs week to week to break down, but for right now, what is there really to say?  Sure, I could list the tiny amount of players who perform well, but overall what does it mean? Another loss, another embarrassing on-field product. Wake me up when this team is worth spending the extra time on......(Imma still watch though, ugh)

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We've now seen this offense completely lack rhythm under three very different quarterbacks. Turner just doesn't seem to be able to figure out what he wants to do.

 

It's also sobering to realize that Kyle Allen is clearly the best QB on the roster.

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It’s like someone said how do I build a back 7 that would have been great in 1996. SDH in particular has had a really rough time adjusting to this scheme after playing in a two gap 3-4 since college. 

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Some insights from today's game:

 

  • It's obvious that Rivera is considering the season as a long rehearsal for next year. Everyone is being evaluated. Top to bottom.
  • Allen is better than Haskins (which is not a lot to say, honestly).
  • Save for the D-Line, our defense is atrocious.
  • No running game. Without it, there's little chance of competing against even the worst teams in the league.

 

That's it. Frankly, we should consider trading players that hold some kind of value and let them count for something in their NFL careers in the hope we can stockpile draft picks.

 

This will be a long and arduous rebuilding effort. I'm talking about 3-5 years.

 

 

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Should have sent the game to OT. Let the players get some high leverage reps and extend the game. See what some of them are made of. Other than that, the game was awfully boring and slow. Something like 8 possessions a piece and tons of long nickel and diming drives by both teams. 

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7 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

This will be a long and arduous rebuilding effort. I'm talking about 3-5 years.

 

 

Ughh....i dont think i can take 3-5 more years of losing seasons and being the joke of the NFL. Just once I’d like for my team to not be having to back their way into the playoffs, to win a couple of playoff games, heck too even win ONE playoff game! 
 

id like to have a QB who i can know will have 3+ TD games consistently. For a RB to have 7+ TDs in the season. For a WR to have 8+ TDs a season, consistently.

 

sigh. 

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Agree with everything KDawg posted. I'll add a few additional thoughts to this:

--I've seen enough of Scott Turner already.  Multiple times today, there were receivers practically running into each other on routes.  The spacing was terrible. 

--I fail to understand why we don't get the ball into Terry's hands early--call a bubble screen, anything, just get the ball into the hands of our playmakers (of which there are arguably two) on offense.

--Allen has a mediocre arm, is jumpy in the pocket and far too careless with the ball.  He basically cost us this game. 

--The PA fakes by Allen need major work; and I would like to see Scott Turner move the pocket and get Allen into space.  The lack of creativity on offense is a big issue.

--We need a new kicker--what in the hell else is new??  Half the kickers in this league have come through Washington only to be kicked aside before they fully developed.  Now have Hopkins is about 50/50 from 45 yards out.  Just really, really bad.

 

Defense:

--I've been watching football for 35 years, and I'm not sure I've seen LB play this bad.  Perhaps during LeCharles's reign of terror.  But, the scheme needs to be more aggressive.  Our LBs cant sit in space and diagnose.  They are getting blocked out of almost every play.  Our scheme needs to have them come downhill more often--switch to a nickel on 2nd and 3rd downs and swap a LB for someone in the secondary.  They are really hard to watch as a unit and are majorly lacking NFL starting caliber talent.  I would go so far to say that all of our starting LBs would be backups on other rosters. 

--Secondary did pretty well today with, surprise, surprise, the exception of the safety position.  There was a reason the Giants let Collins walk.  He's not good.  Everett is light years better than Apke (shows you how bad Apke is as a starter) and Everett should be a backup and not a starter...but, at least he understands geometry and can make a play. 

--I would really like to see more stunts from the DL.  We need to be way more creative with our up front pressures.  When Allen and Payne go straight forward, they revert back to their 3-4 form and focus far too much on gap control and far too little on penetration and getting to the QB, especially on passing downs.

 

Coaching:

--Jury is out for me.  I like Ron and want to see him succeed.  Have major questions around his pick of Scott Turner, and I'm fairly confident it won't end well.  But, the bottom line is that this franchise has been grossly negligent for years in acquiring talent at key positions.  We've neglected LB completely, as well as O-line, receiver and safety.  Hard to be competitive when that's been the plan.  Finally, we have drafted well enough to begin to have a nucleus of talent, but it will be a long slog.  This can't be fixed in a season or even two.

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I’m all for building through the draft, but I’m starting to think even the draft is futile. Players just don’t get better on this team. If they arrive as a decent player, they either become much worse or stay at the same level. Bad players stay bad players. 
 

Montez Sweat (honorable mention Matt Ion) is the only player in recent memory who has become significantly better while on the team. The lack of OTAs might be the reason for his improvement. 

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The information about the Rivera and Turner wanting different players is really concerning. I do not think HC and GM should be one job. This team needs to figure it out soon or Rivera's tenure here will be short and terrible.

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4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm disappointed Young wasn't able to dominate a garbage Giants OL.

 

I don’t think he’s 100%. He was stout at the point of attack and got some pressures (he caused the pick that Jones threw) - but he seems less explosive than before the groin strain.

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 

They weren't even playing Andrew Thomas, they were playing his backup,


Thomas was benched for the first quarter. He played the rest of the game - and was so so at best when he did play.

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The route stacking was reaaaally suspect in this game. You had receivers occupying the same space on multiple occasions. Even saw a play where Allen had to dodge Wright (I think) mid play as he broke across the formation in the backfield. Just sloppy execution there. 

 

I'm starting to think this offense has a lot of option routes, and the on the fly choices are leading to these stacked windows. No real competent OC should be drawing up this many plays where players are congregating with their teammates at midfield.

 

Also, the past several teams have practically been daring us to return kicks. No fear of our STs at all. Need St. Sims ASAP.

 

Wes Sch continues to be a bright spot at least. He is something to build on moving forward.

 

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2 hours ago, Florgon79 said:

The information about the Rivera and Turner wanting different players is really concerning. I do not think HC and GM should be one job. This team needs to figure it out soon or Rivera's tenure here will be short and terrible.

 

Yes, considering they are 6 games into their tenure on this franchise, how are they already not on the same page with stuff like that. 

 

Kyle Allen managed to both show why Haskins is not quite ready yet, and also why he himself is not an NFL starting QB.  Well done. 

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