Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[evmiii]

Watson apparently isn’t a model citizen when getting a massage, but it is noteworthy to me there have been Zero criminal allegations.  I’m not sure, because of his talent, that he is as toxic as many think.  Accusers have now accused NFL investigators of bias and are not cooperating with the investigation.  He has stated he won’t play for Houston so this has some time to resolve itself.  Some team is going to get a franchise QB at a discounted price, but it will not be the WFT.

[mistertim]

Also remember that Watson has a no-trade clause. So that means that he's only going to agree to be traded to a team he really wants to go to. IIRC there were some leaks about places he would be good with and WFT wasn't on the list. So we have some huge barriers to getting him. First the culture issue and his sexual assault allegations, second the fact that he has a no-trade clause, and third the fact that there are teams with much better draft capital than us.

[Whiskeypeet]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

Also remember that Watson has a no-trade clause. So that means that he's only going to agree to be traded to a team he really wants to go to. IIRC there were some leaks about places he would be good with and WFT wasn't on the list. So we have some huge barriers to getting him. First the culture issue and his sexual assault allegations, second the fact that he has a no-trade clause, and third the fact that there are teams with much better draft capital than us.

 

The culture & future risk issues are almost certainly a deal breaker.  Out of curiousity, who has the better draft capital for next year?  I know that was an issue for this past draft, not clear to me how that looks going forward.

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Whiskeypeet said:

 

The culture & future risk issues are almost certainly a deal breaker.  Out of curiousity, who has the better draft capital for next year?  I know that was an issue for this past draft, not clear to me how that looks going forward.

 

Just off the top of my head there are 3 teams in the NFC (Houston would probably try as hard as they can to not send him to an AFC team, I'm guessing) who have 2 1st round picks next year and who also would probably be in the market for a young elite QB: Eagles, Giants, Lions. 

 

Actually, the Eagles may have 3 1sts next year if Wentz does well. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by mistertim

[Conn]

5 hours ago, evmiii said:

Watson apparently isn’t a model citizen when getting a massage, but it is noteworthy to me there have been Zero criminal allegations. 

This really isn’t noteworthy at all. Most of these women came forward after they realized they weren’t the only ones—criminal allegations/charges in these sorts of cases are a poor bet even when the crime is fresh and there is physical evidence! Nevermind months later after no initial report (which is extremely common when dealing with the sort of power/influence imbalance we have here). Even fairly cut and dry rape cases with an identified suspect and physical evidence are low percentage bets. These types of crimes, even ones much more egregious than what Watson is accused of, are charged and prosecuted at a disgustingly low rate in this country. Labs have half-decade long backlogs of rape kits just sitting. I could go on and on. 
 

The fact that these women (most of whom don’t want to be dragged through the media mud) wouldn’t press criminal charges (at the time or now) isn’t surprising in the least if you know how these things generally play out for victims of these crimes. It doesn’t really say anything of substance about whether these allegations are true or not.
 

 

[Anselmheifer]

I wonder why the lawyer suing Deshaun Watson wants all of the records sealed in order to settle. I would think Watson would want a hush order, not the accusers. 

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I wonder why the lawyer suing Deshaun Watson wants all of the records sealed in order to settle. I would think Watson would want a hush order, not the accusers. 

Well two reasons in my non expert opinion:

 

1) the case isn’t great and he doesn’t want details out

 

 2) He doesn’t want the victims names released.

 

I’d GUESS 2 is the case but we live in a world where it’s entirely possible it’s 1.

[LetThePointsSoar]

Rewatching the playoff game against Tampa. We went toe to toe with the Super Bowl Champs with a whole lot of drive killing drops from both the Sims plus a very hobbled Antonio Gibson. 

 

This team just might be something special this year, kids. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

On 5/21/2021 at 3:35 PM, evmiii said:

Watson apparently isn’t a model citizen when getting a massage, 

 

S.A.T and word nerd alert: This is a textbook perfect example of the rarely, if ever, used but nevertheless interesting word "litotes" (ie an intentional understatement that's the polar opposite of hyperbole). 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[Silvernon]

1 hour ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

Rewatching the playoff game against Tampa. We went toe to toe with the Super Bowl Champs with a whole lot of drive killing drops from both the Sims plus a very hobbled Antonio Gibson. 

 

This team just might be something special this year, kids. 

I agree, but they also didn't have their x-factor Devin White that week.

 

And why the selection of Davis was key for WFT. 

 

But yes, they could be special. It will help that they'll be the underdogs to win the division this year. Gives them an easy chip. 

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

Rewatching the playoff game against Tampa. We went toe to toe with the Super Bowl Champs with a whole lot of drive killing drops from both the Sims plus a very hobbled Antonio Gibson. 

 

This team just might be something special this year, kids. 

 

 

Yeah I rewatched it about a month ago myself and came to two major conclusions:

 

1. Heinicke played even better than I thought the first time I saw it. Perfect passes under pressure that were dropped killed several scoring drives.

 

Prediction: It's hard to see Taylor beating out the bearded demon in training camp. However, if Fitz has a slow start to the year don't be surprised if Rivera gives Taylor an earlier than anticipated shot at the job. We need to find out this season-- before next years draft-- if Heinicke is a 5' 10" unicorn at qb.

 

2. The defense in the second half was getting shredded by Brady. You know that he gets rid of the ball so fast its hard to sack him but there were times when he had all day to throw and our zone playing dbs just got out-athleted.

 

Opinion: Ron and JDR saw this too and rebuilt the secondary with faster athletes in the off season while drafting the best coverage lb in the draft.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[Anselmheifer]

22 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

Yeah I rewatched it about a month ago myself and came to two major conclusions:

 

1. Heinicke played even better than I thought the first time I saw it. Perfect passes under pressure that were dropped killed several scoring drives.

 

Prediction: It's hard to see Taylor beating out the bearded demon in training camp. However, if Fitz has a slow start to the year don't be surprised if Rivera gives Taylor an earlier than anticipated shot at the job. We need to find out this season-- before next years draft-- if Heinicke is a 5' 10" unicorn at qb.

 

2. The defense in the second half was getting shredded by Brady. You know that he gets rid of the ball so fast its hard to sack him but there were times when he had all day to throw and our zone playing dbs just got out-athleted.

 

Opinion: Ron and JDR saw this too and rebuilt the secondary with faster athletes in the off season while drafting the best coverage lb in the draft.

 

 

Getting Ioannidis back will also help here. Chase Young will be in a second year now. The pass rush itself should be significantly better. 

[philibusters]

9 hours ago, KDawg said:

Well two reasons in my non expert opinion:

 

1) the case isn’t great and he doesn’t want details out

 

 2) He doesn’t want the victims names released.

 

I’d GUESS 2 is the case but we live in a world where it’s entirely possible it’s 1.

 

It could also be that they want to settle the case and want Watson to fear embarrasment.  If everything is public, he is already embarrassed and has nothing to lose at that point, but if the information is sealed Watson could have an incentive to keep it sealed by settling

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Getting Ioannidis back will also help here. Chase Young will be in a second year now. The pass rush itself should be significantly better. 

 

 

If everything breaks right and the dreaded "I" bug doesn't hit us we have the potential to have a Bears '85 type impact on games.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[The Rook]

2 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

We have the potential to have a Bears '85 type impact on games.

 

Fingers crossed.

 I would be happy with a Tampa Bay '20 type impact on games. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Die Hard]

1 hour ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

If everything breaks right and the dreaded "I" bug doesn't hit us we have the potential to have a Bears '85 type impact on games.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

Different era. The NFL wants offence now. 
 

And with a QB like Fitz, he’s going to put the defence in bad spots from time to time (ie. turnovers). Makes it difficult to be consistently dominant.

 

But I’m totally in. I’d love to see it. It’ll definitely be among, if not the best defence in the league. But historical? Sign me up.

[Burgold]

On 5/21/2021 at 4:24 PM, mistertim said:

 So we have some huge barriers to getting him. First the culture issue and his sexual assault allegations, 

So, what you are saying is that we would have had a better chance to get him if Bruce Allen and Larry Michael were still on the team...

[Die Hard]

13 hours ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

2. The defense in the second half was getting shredded by Brady. You know that he gets rid of the ball so fast its hard to sack him but there were times when he had all day to throw and our zone playing dbs just got out-athleted.

In 4 playoff games, the Bucs only had 3 penalties against their offence. Only 1 offensive holding call ALL playoffs, against Tristen Wirffs in the 4th quarter of the Saints game.

 

And that’s with 138 passing attempts - not including rushing attempts.

 

Out-athleted?!? Nah, that’s the Brady factor. Unless we all want to acknowledge the Bucs O-line as the best in NFL history.

 

 

[redskins4ever28]

I personally am praying heiniche gets the job. At least he is still unknown and could continue progressing where the sky is the limit. We all know what fitz can do, and who he is. He won’t ever get us to the SB

[Malapropismic Depository]

12 minutes ago, redskins4ever28 said:

I personally am praying heiniche gets the job. At least he is still unknown and could continue progressing where the sky is the limit. We all know what fitz can do, and who he is. He won’t ever get us to the SB

 

Exactly.

Unlike Heinicke's height - the ceiling is high for Heinicke.

[ODU AGGIE]

This guy has it right.

 

https://www.nfldraftdiamonds.com/2021/05/taylor-heinicke/

[Silvernon]

As previously discussed, signing FitzMagic is potentially the bridge to Heinicke. Arguably the ideal mentor.

 

He will get some snaps over the next year or two and you make a decision. 

[tmandoug1]

I guess this thread ends when the first snap occurs in the first game. I would like to see Fitz mentor Heiny. 

[RWJ]

12 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

I guess this thread ends when the first snap occurs in the first game. I would like to see Fitz mentor Heiny. 

Agreed.  It will take that and people will dreamscape until then that someone other than Fitz will be traded for as our QB.  Fitz in 2021 and if he has a decent year, 2022 as well with us possibly and probably drafting a QB in 2022.  

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

3 hours ago, Silvernon said:

As previously discussed, signing FitzMagic is potentially the bridge to Heinicke. Arguably the ideal mentor.

 

He will get some snaps over the next year or two and you make a decision. 

 

When he is 29?  Sounds like a long shot.