Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[mistertim]

Where did the idea of rumors of SF wanting Mac Jones even come from though? I don't remember reading anything with substance besides them having someone at his pro day. I don't remember reading any "I spoke to someone with SF and they said they like Mac Jones a lot" stories or tweets. Did I miss them (it's definitely possible)? 

 

It really feels to me like this Mac Jones stuff is mostly sports writers trying to get clicks.

Edited April 8, 2021 by mistertim

[JCB]

Based on watching Path to the Draft (fwiw) the rock solid reasoning is that Jones reminds some folks of Cousins. Gold, Jerry, gold!

[dyst]

I doubt San Fran would move that much capital to grab Jones but the NFL hype train is odd. Wasn’t Daniel Jones slotted as a 2nd rounder at one point and then suddenly come draft time he goes 6th to the Giants.

Edited April 8, 2021 by dyst

[Panninho]

 

[evmiii]

I would be very surprised if the San Francisco 49ers take anyone other than Justin Fields.  Mac Jones has jumped from a second round pick to the third QB off the board without taking a single snap in pads.  It’s very easy to understand the miserable success rate with first round QB’s in the draft.  This bull about Mac Jones fitting a system better is nuts; if you draft that way you deserve the outcome.  You have to draft the best available and adjust your system.

 

Any of these guys might be great if they end up in the right situation and circumstances or they might be the next (inset your favorite failed QBs- I’ll go with Johnny Manziel).  I also think that Stills and Mond might end up better than all of them.

 

I would really like the WFT to pick up Stills or Mond in the second or third to sit behind Fitzpatrick for a year.  Both bring a different set of intangibles and I think they have a opportunity to be very good.  WFT is in a pretty good situation to develop one of those guys without the pressure of playing their first rounder before they are ready.  I am excited about the opportunity in this draft.

[CommanderInTheRye]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

Where did the idea of rumors of SF wanting Mac Jones even come from though? I don't remember reading anything with substance besides them having someone at his pro day. I don't remember reading any "I spoke to someone with SF and they said they like Mac Jones a lot" stories or tweets. Did I miss them (it's definitely possible)? 

 

It really feels to me like this Mac Jones stuff is mostly sports writers trying to get clicks.

 

 

I watch far too much tv and record everything football talk related on the sports networks so I am more than a bit jaded by their influence.

 

As I recall the talking head rumor mill first started to whisper that the 49ers had strong interest in Mac Jones about a week BEFORE they traded up to the third pick.

 

It really exploded on the day of and week after the trade took place. It seemed that every show from First Take, to Get Up, to Undisputed, to Total Access et al had someone claiming that the 49ers would likely draft Mac Jones.

 

Who knows.

Edited April 8, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Where did the idea of rumors of SF wanting Mac Jones even come from though? I don't remember reading anything with substance besides them having someone at his pro day. I don't remember reading any "I spoke to someone with SF and they said they like Mac Jones a lot" stories or tweets. Did I miss them (it's definitely possible)? 

 

It really feels to me like this Mac Jones stuff is mostly sports writers trying to get clicks.

 

I think a lot of it is coming from Schefter who said on a radio spot when pushed "okay, it's Mac Jones".  Schefter and Mike Shanahan wrote a book together so there's that.  Then Dan Patrick came out and said it was a done deal.  I believe Chris Simms said the same thing.  It's not a bunch of hacks out there reporting rumors, seems real but I guess we'll see.  I can't remember who, it might of been Cowherd who I'm not super fond of but said his sources told him there was a real split about it.  Said Kyle Shanahan wants Mac and John Lynch wants Justin Fields.

[CommanderInTheRye]

32 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I think a lot of it is coming from Schefter who said on a radio spot when pushed "okay, it's Mac Jones".  Schefter and Mike Shanahan wrote a book together so there's that.  Then Dan Patrick came out and said it was a done deal.  I believe Chris Simms said the same thing.  It's not a bunch of hacks out there reporting rumors, seems real but I guess we'll see.  I can't remember who, it might of been Cowherd who I'm not super fond of but said his sources told him there was a real split about it.  Said Kyle Shanahan wants Mac and John Lynch wants Justin Fields.

 

 

The split decision reporter was Lombardi (Michael not Vince btw).

Edited April 8, 2021 by TrancesWithWolves

[mistertim]

I certainly respect Chris Simms and his opinion, but I thought his take on it being Mac Jones was less "Someone in SF told me it's Mac Jones at 3" and more "I really like Mac Jones and think he's a good pick at 3."

[RWJ]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I certainly respect Chris Simms and his opinion, but I thought his take on it being Mac Jones was less "Someone in SF told me it's Mac Jones at 3" and more "I really like Mac Jones and think he's a good pick at 3."

Don't know about #3 overall but I love the guy and have always liked him. 

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

I watch far too much tv and record everything football talk related on the sports networks so I am more than a bit jaded by their influence.

 

As I recall the talking head rumor mill first started to whisper that the 49ers had strong interest in Mac Jones about a week BEFORE their trade with the Dolphins.

 

It really exploded on the day of and week after the trade took place. It seemed that every show from First Take, to Get Up, to Undisputed, to Total Access et al had someone claiming that the 49ers would likely draft Mac Jones.

 

Who knows.

Of course BEFORE the trade that was because all of 3 of top10 worthy QBs are likely to be gone by the third pick and there are likely going to be as many as 1 other QBs over-drafted in the top 10, maybe as soon as 5.

[actorguy1]

So we are supposed to believe the Wilson to Jets rumors as truth but seriously doubt the Jones to 49ers rumors because it doesn't fit the draftniks rankings? Just checking...

[CommanderInTheRye]

32 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Of course BEFORE the trade that was because all of 3 of top10 worthy QBs are likely to be gone by the third pick and there are likely going to be as many as 1 other QBs over-drafted in the top 10, maybe as soon as 5.

 

I may be having a senior moment here (seriously) but I'm not sure I completely get your point.

 

In your previous post I thought that you wanted to know when the reports of an interest in Jones by the 49ers began.

 

I responded to that query by saying that my best recollection was that it was about a week before the trade that the rumors began and that those rumors accelerated both in number and confidence (rather than abating) AFTER  the trade was made.

 

I'm not arguing that there aren't alternative explanations for the existence of those rumors. I'm just offering when I believe they first occurred.

16 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

So we are supposed to believe the Wilson to Jets rumors as truth but seriously doubt the Jones to 49ers rumors because it doesn't fit the draftniks rankings? Just checking...

 

 

We are supposed to doubt and  critically question everything or at least that's what the Jesuits taught me.

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

So we are supposed to believe the Wilson to Jets rumors as truth but seriously doubt the Jones to 49ers rumors because it doesn't fit the draftniks rankings? Just checking...

 

Wilson has been a riser for a long time and has been very high on most draft boards for a while. Jones is a much later entry as a potential top 10, let alone top 5, pick at QB. A couple months ago many didn't even have him as a 1st rounder due to his perceived limited ceiling.

 

IMO Wilson has the kind of tools that most people wish Jones had to go along with his efficient pocket QB style of play: high athleticism, big arm, ability to extend plays and improvise, great at throwing outside of the pocket.

 

I don't think Wilson being slotted as a top 3 pick is anywhere near as "controversial" as Jones being slotted there.

[actorguy1]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Wilson has been a riser for a long time and has been very high on most draft boards for a while. Jones is a much later entry as a potential top 10, let alone top 5, pick at QB. A couple months ago many didn't even have him as a 1st rounder due to his perceived limited ceiling.

 

IMO Wilson has the kind of tools that most people wish Jones had to go along with his efficient pocket QB style of play: high athleticism, big arm, ability to extend plays and improvise, great at throwing outside of the pocket.

 

I don't think Wilson being slotted as a top 3 pick is anywhere near as "controversial" as Jones being slotted there.

Agreed, but the draftnik community is still only making educated guesses, as teams are just this week sitting down to finalize their draft boards. I love the speculation but there can be a lot of blow back when players start rising up the draft boards because it doesn't jive with the community. 

[KDawg]

Listening to the radio here... Bills talk... they were talking draft and how the QBs drafted early may help them get Jaycee Horn at 30 (lol). But they started talking about the QBs and they said, “Mac Jones can’t run”.

 

Whats amazing to me is his speed ten years ago would be considered excellent for a QB.

 

Now his 4.79 40 means he’s a total statue.

[Warhead36]

Yeah I'd say Jones is like Cousins. Not really known for mobility but can occasionally make plays with his legs. Actually one pet peeve I always had with Cousins is that he didn't use his legs more often.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I'd say Jones is like Cousins. Not really known for mobility but can occasionally make plays with his legs. Actually one pet peeve I always had with Cousins is that he didn't use his legs more often.

 

I actually do see a lot of similarities as well. I don't know if it's necessarily the case that Jones has no athleticism and can't run at all (a 4.79 40 isn't great but isn't complete statue territory as @KDawgnoted) or if it's more that making off-schedule plays just isn't really his thing.

 

Maybe like Cousins he's a guy that tends to thrive when the system is clicking and he's playing well within it, as opposed to a guy who's best at making things happen when plays break down and he has to go off-script.

[Skinsinparadise]

The rumors about the Jets and Zach Wilson are just about 100 percent.

 

As for the 49ers it’s more of a mixed bag depending on the reporter. Some say Lance. Some even say Fields. Hard to quantify it but if I ballparked it, I would guess it’s about 70 percent or so saying Mac Jones.

 

For the Jets you don’t have reporters like Mike Jones today  (And it’s not just him) who said he doesn’t think it will be Mac Jones for the 49ers.  For the Jets it’s squarely Zach Wilson if you run with the rumors.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

The theories about who the 49ers want at 3 seem to have swung back and forth. At first the general consensus seemed to be "Guys, the 49ers aren't spending three 1st round picks on Mac Jones. Get real." then it suddenly seemed to rubber band back and now a bunch of people are talking about how it's probably Mac Jones at 3 after all.

 

I think it's all just wild speculation. I doubt Kyle or Lynch have really shared much with anyone. I actually think KS kind of enjoys trolling the sports media and giving them fits. He seems to truly get a kick out of it. 

[CurseReversed]

I think the 49ers probably want Jones or Fields.  The 3rd pick guarantees one of them but they will try and see how it looks on draft day and maybe squeeze a small trade back in and get one.  

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, CurseReversed said:

I think the 49ers probably want Jones or Fields.  The 3rd pick guarantees one of them but they will try and see how it looks on draft day and maybe squeeze a small trade back in and get one.  

 

 

I'm leaning more towards Fields or Lance, but they would probably be quite happy with Wilson but probably assume he's going to the Jets. Kyle himself said that they had a couple guys they'd be good with IIRC. 

 

I'm honestly not trying to slam on Jones. I think he's a good prospect and he had a great season. But IMO he's just not a guy you spend three 1st round picks on due to his limited upside. Kyle also talked in his presser about ideal traits for QBs like arm strength, ability outside of the pocket and to create plays...basically all the stuff that Jones lacks.

 

To me that would be like giving up three 1st round picks for Kirk Cousins, as he's a guy Jones reminds me of a decent amount. Cousins is a good QB, and you could certainly do worse, but he's also not a QB who's going to scare anyone on his own and he's not really a guy who's going to elevate all the guys around him with his play.

 

I think if you're giving up three 1sts you're looking for a guy who has the potential and upside to be an elite game changer at the position ala Mahomes/Allen/Watson, etc. And I just don't see Jones ever being that. We'll find out soon enough though.

[Jericho]

Hard to believe the 49ers would trade up to #3 overall this far in advance of the draft and give up as much as they did without a specific plan in place. And I tend to think that plan is a bit more than "we like a bunch of guys". I don't think any team really considers Jones, Lance, and Fields as "equal". I know some people like the lump some or all these guys on the same basic rating, but I think every team in the NFL would prefer one of these over the others. The only question is who is the 49ers guy? They clearly had a a target when they made the trade and I don't see that changing. i suppose they don't want to come out and just say who it is on the off chance the Jets do something unexpected. But I think they've been locked in for weeks.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Is Shefty ever wrong? Didn't he say he'd be shocked if it wasn't Mac Jones? Well, it's Mac Jones then fellas.

Shefter is the official version of the story until proven otherwise for me. lol.  For real, the guy is just on point, and it's been a long long time. Shefty FTW..

[CurseReversed]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm leaning more towards Fields or Lance, but they would probably be quite happy with Wilson but probably assume he's going to the Jets. Kyle himself said that they had a couple guys they'd be good with IIRC. 

 

I'm honestly not trying to slam on Jones. I think he's a good prospect and he had a great season. But IMO he's just not a guy you spend three 1st round picks on due to his limited upside. Kyle also talked in his presser about ideal traits for QBs like arm strength, ability outside of the pocket and to create plays...basically all the stuff that Jones lacks.

 

To me that would be like giving up three 1st round picks for Kirk Cousins, as he's a guy Jones reminds me of a decent amount. Cousins is a good QB, and you could certainly do worse, but he's also not a QB who's going to scare anyone on his own and he's not really a guy who's going to elevate all the guys around him with his play.

 

I think if you're giving up three 1sts you're looking for a guy who has the potential and upside to be an elite game changer at the position ala Mahomes/Allen/Watson, etc. And I just don't see Jones ever being that. We'll find out soon enough though.

I really don't know if there is truth to these rumors or not, but this smoke of SF wanting Jones must really have you worried that your surefire interpretation of Jones value is not as rock solid as you thought.  Not that SF is the end all and be all of QB scouting either, but if they do draft him at 3, you got to be thinking...did I miss something?

 

Elite traits are great, but if you look at the list of NFL greats, its a totally different list of elite traits they have.  Now..those might be harder to project but we aren't football guru's either, at least I am not.   It is a changing league and maybe I would take FIelds at 3 too, but I love Jones and If I could get him and another top guy I would do it.