Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[JoggingGod]

1 minute ago, Vanguard said:

No.  But I watched him play for us.

And he was not good.

Edited March 30, 2021 by JoggingGod

[Vanguard]

17 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

And he was not good.

4 td to 1 interception and a big win over the Cowboys 25-3 before we hit our stride.  You watched different games than I did.

[JoggingGod]

8 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

4 td to 1 interception and a big win over the Cowboys 25-3 before we hit our stride.  You watched different games than I did.

He played ok in one game vs a terrible team. You get easily swayed by a tiny exception lol.

[Vanguard]

9 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

He played ok in one game vs a terrible team. You get easily swayed by a tiny exception lol.

Then what’s our answer at qb?  Who has “swayed” you?

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, RWJ said:

Mills is way over drafted if the WFT selects him in the 2nd!  Trask has been projected by many a draft guru to the WFT in the 2nd.  Man, we got to wait a long time until the draft, eh?

 

I've watched a few of Mills games now.  I'd think I'd take him over Trask.   But I don't love him

 

I don't worry about what the draftniks think about it.   They are all over the place on it.  Sims for example likes Mills over Trask -- not that this matters either. 

 

He has that Mac Jones eye manipulation/body language/looking off safeties thing cooking for him.  I like that.  Similar to Mac Jones on that front.

 

Of all the QBs I've watched, he might have the best touch on his throws.  Throws a really catchable ball.   And his accuracy looks good no matter what part of the field he's throwing to. 

 

No bad off platform but not special on that front either

 

Why don't I love him?

 

Don't love him as a decision maker.  Same thing i've said about Darnold and Rosen among others.  Had some picks and others that were dropped

 

He has good accuracy but its not special.  Inconsistent accuracy

 

No real special traits -- I know I've said the same about Trask.  Mills has more zip on his ball and more mobility than Trask but also isn't special in that or anything else IMO.   

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[The Consigliere]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I posted this on the draft thread but it goes well here too:

 

On another note, I've heard enough from Keim (including this morning) that they are targeting a specific QB on the 2nd day of the draft.  The kicker for me on this was Standig (who I think is the 2nd most plugged in reporter) shifting from they aren't going QB in the draft to they might and even gave a nugget of who he heard they might like:  Davis Mills.  

 

I think its safe to guess they like either Mills or Trask or both of them.

 

Keim added this morning, they aren't going to take a QB just to take one, they have a specific target in mine and will likely do it if they are there.  They (he and Sheehan discussed) which QB would they discard, they both guessed its more likely Kyle but also considered Heinicke in play to be discarded too depending on how training camp went.   So apparently its not QB or bust where they are going to take any flier and roll the dice.  Seems like they have a specific target or two. 

I wonder if part of it is that the '22 class is not good, it's '13, '14, '19 (if Kyler played baseball instead) redux. Guys in that second and third tier of this class are basically at least as good as next years guys. Mills is a former 5 star recruit, would have had a cleaner, more interesting profile to look at w/o Covid, now maybe you get a discount on him because of the short Pac-12 season. Rivals had him as the #1 pro style QB in his recruiting class. espn had him #2 pro style, 247sports (i think scout.com) also had him #1 for pro style QB recruits. In terms of pedigree, he's the value of the draft if you can get him day 2.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

I wonder if part of it is that the '22 class is not good, it's '13, '14, '19 (if Kyler played baseball instead) redux. Guys in that second and third tier of this class are basically at least as good as next years guys. Mills is a former 5 star recruit, would have had a cleaner, more interesting profile to look at w/o Covid, now maybe you get a discount on him because of the short Pac-12 season. Rivals had him as the #1 pro style QB in his recruiting class. espn had him #2 pro style, 247sports (i think scout.com) also had him #1 for pro style QB recruits. In terms of pedigree, he's the value of the draft if you can get him day 2.  

 

I am ok with Mills if that's what they do.    Don't love it.  Don't hate it. 

 

Here is some of PFF's take.

[The Consigliere]

Me neither. I'm borderline out on my redskins fandom for a while, but Mills is at least intriguing. The #1 Dropback in his QB class, Covid wrecks what would've been his first full season as a starter, so you have a chance here to potentially draft a guy who might have been a first rounder in '22, at a discount in a loaded '21 class. It's interesting, I'll give it that. I'd rather have a QB who can move more, but at least he has the raw skill set to do the job. I don't have a clear idea of where he's projected. Sounds like he's got a grade somewhere in the 40-80 zone in terms of draft slot overall, but I have no feel. If we could get him in round 3 I'd like it a lot more than in round 1. But after the big guys are gone, he's the only one I have the slightest interest in, otherwise I'd just pass and tank for the '23 class which is impossible lol. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[The Consigliere]

Yeah, I'd sell the house for Fields needless to say. Someone is going to straight up steal him in the draft, and it's gonna be like us and other teams passing on Herbert, and even more closely, everyone league wide passing on Russell Wilson who ended up the best in the '12 class (in fairness, I always thought Luck was better, just sabotaged by a totally incompetent F.O., but Wilson became a clear HOF talent years ago, and Luck still had more to prove, Colts fault or not, before he retired, so Wilson gets the GOAT of that class). I am convinced that at worst, teams are going to get an elite passing QB with dual threat talent in Fields, and they're gonna get him after 2-3 vastly inferior talents go ahead of him to idiot teams that have no clue what they're doing. From time to time there are clear moments like this in drafts. The trio of RB's that inexplicably went in the top 10 in '05 (Caddy, Ronnie and the late Cedric), the '11 QB class that was high comedy, the pair of WTF FSU QB's that went first round when anyone who ever watched them knew they were busts predraft (Ponder and Manuel). The Gabbert and Bortles classes where most fans rightly were "what in the actual <expletive>" are Blake and Blaine doing at the top of QB classes in 2 of like 3 years. You can see some of this coming a mile away. The fact that Wentz, and Goff are now kinda, "ehhh, we'll trade you them just to get them off the roster" is not surprising when they screamed "REACH" in their class (I warmed to Wentz eventually, but as a Cal alum, Goff always struck me as a placeholder QB, good enough to start, and no more). Trubisky was always a kind of, "Ummm, I guess, how many games has he done this for and why do we think he's better than Watson?".

 

Fields is gonna be one of those guys where looking back you go, "How in the hell did they take, this guy, that guy, and this other guy ahead of him." Maybe he ends up not living to the promise I see (top 10 QB every year like Wilson), but he's damn near bust proof to me. All the other guys other than Lawrence are at best 50/50 or less, Haskins style prospects (I like Lance just because, if he hits, he's gonna be a "HOLY ----!!!!!" level talent, at least he's that. Mac Jones, and BYU Rich Boy? Please. 

[The Consigliere]

And btw, I eat my misses gladly. I liked the freaking Josh Doctson pick, I screamed bloody murder that we took Scherrf over Leonard Williams (seems like a push now, but probably a win when you consider it pushed the Giants into reaching for Flowers), I thought Ramsey would eventually be league average, I hated taking Sean Taylor over a QB or trading down (my plan was Udeze/Wilfork), I actually talked myself into the troika of pass catching busts we took in the 2nd in '08, I was fine with the RGIII trade (and still am and still would be for another similar trade for Fields), I had no idea who the heck the DB's were that we drafted late on day 3 in recent years and smashed on (Curl and the poor kid out of Va Tech that had to retire). I miss on plenty, and I own it. I hated the hell out of the McLaurin pick, and am happy as hell we hit on it, but still think it was a 90% bad process pick (him hitting is the biggest outlier hit at WR in a decade, but he did provide a caveat for future WR evaluations: sometimes guys don't break out because they play at Ohio State/Clemson/Georgia/Alabama etc. Then again Ruggs was McLaurin, the bust version, so he showed you how it could go wrong in the same way N'Keal Harry and Tee Higgins were basically the same prospect, with the same liability (lack a second gear and top end speed to separate. Doesn't matter for Higgins, he already looks like a pro bowler, while Harry now looks more like an in line TE lol). Oh and btw, while I nailed AJ Brown in '19 (and had him everywhere, just like Godwin and Juju the year before (well Juju I couldn't trade up for so i only had him on 2 teams), I loved Harry and had him #1 like everyone else in that class. Whoops. 

 

For those on the DK Metcalf tip, do remember, he didn't have a single healthy season in college, no profile, and no route tree, he was a deep threat who played like 4-6 games tops a year with an immaculate body and athleticism, it was madness he fell as far as he did, but there was a reason he wasn't going #1. It's harder to justify why AJ Brown went where he went as his college career was basically and the analytical statistical embodiment of DK Metcalf's freakish body. 

 

Anyway, I'm babbling. I will own my stupid needless to say, if I miss on Fiels, I'll own it, I loved Josh rosen after all (and still think Darnold is an interesting speculative venture if he's a day 3 pick trade target or late compensatory zone day 2 guy). 

[Number 44]

15 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

And btw, I eat my misses gladly.

I'm sure that she is quite happy about that.  😄

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Well, Keim has now, IHO put us in the trade up scenario for a QB however who might it be.  Well, we know that Turner was at Lance's Pro Day.  Was he at any other Pro Days for the other big name QBs?  I don't know do you, SIP?

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Number 44 said:

I'm sure that she is quite happy about that.  😄

😄

[Anselmheifer]

33 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Well, Keim has now, IHO put us in the trade up scenario for a QB however who might it be.  Well, we know that Turner was at Lance's Pro Day.  Was he at any other Pro Days for the other big name QBs?  I don't know do you, SIP?

He was at Fields’ pro day today.

[JoggingGod]

5 hours ago, Vanguard said:

Then what’s our answer at qb?  Who has “swayed” you?

A first round QB. Anyone except someone who's shown he's a strict backup.

[illone]

Im happy going into this season with Fitz vs Allen vs Heine. 
 

id expect Fitzy to win the job with TH giving him a good run. Allen is average at best. 

no need to reach for a guy this year. 

 

[RWJ]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

He was at Fields’ pro day today.

Yes, Keim is a OSU grad or loves the University and I think is from Ohio.

[Tress Is The Way]

13 hours ago, illone said:

Im happy going into this season with Fitz vs Allen vs Heine. 
 

id expect Fitzy to win the job with TH giving him a good run. Allen is average at best. 

no need to reach for a guy this year. 

 

I'd rather then take someone this year, compared to next year. Have someone sit under Fitz and learn.. like Mills perhaps? Hell if Mac jones falls I'd keep my eye on him as well. Reason being is next years prospects are light years worse then all of the QBs in this years draft. Just my 2cents.

[illone]

1 hour ago, ZarG3 said:

I'd rather then take someone this year, compared to next year. Have someone sit under Fitz and learn.. like Mills perhaps? Hell if Mac jones falls I'd keep my eye on him as well. Reason being is next years prospects are light years worse then all of the QBs in this years draft. Just my 2cents.

next year’s QB class isnt THAT bad is it?

 

i just feel like there is so much action at the top of the draft this year its going to be prohibitively expensive to get one of the good QBs.  I admittedly dont know much about the day two qbs, but who do you cut from current bunch?  
 

do you think mills is better than kyle allen?

[JoggingGod]

1 hour ago, illone said:

next year’s QB class isnt THAT bad is it?

It’s bad. The only franchise guy will be going way higher than where we would pick.

[Vanguard]

17 hours ago, illone said:

Im happy going into this season with Fitz vs Allen vs Heine. 
 

id expect Fitzy to win the job with TH giving him a good run. Allen is average at best. 

no need to reach for a guy this year. 

 

Heinicke off of one game is now runner up?  No way

[tmandoug1]

23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've watched a few of Mills games now.  I'd think I'd take him over Trask.   But I don't love him

 

I don't worry about what the draftniks think about it.   They are all over the place on it.  Sims for example likes Mills over Trask -- not that this matters either. 

 

He has that Mac Jones eye manipulation/body language/looking off safeties thing cooking for him.  I like that.  Similar to Mac Jones on that front.

 

Of all the QBs I've watched, he might have the best touch on his throws.  Throws a really catchable ball.   And his accuracy looks good no matter what part of the field he's throwing to. 

 

No bad off platform but not special on that front either

 

Why don't I love him?

 

Don't love him as a decision maker.  Same thing i've said about Darnold and Rosen among others.  Had some picks and others that were dropped

 

He has good accuracy but its not special.  Inconsistent accuracy

 

No real special traits -- I know I've said the same about Trask.  Mills has more zip on his ball and more mobility than Trask but also isn't special in that or anything else IMO.   

 

 

Thanks for the breakdown SIP. I have watched him a couple of times now and if we can get him in the third I would be happy. But I think he goes early second. By the way any idea who #13 was on his team. He caught my eye with some pretty impressive catches.

 

Edit: Simi Fehoko....says he ran a 4.37 40 at hie pro day.

Edited March 31, 2021 by tmandoug1

[illone]

8 hours ago, Vanguard said:

Heinicke off of one game is now runner up?  No way

its not that far fetched. 
 

just based on contract value he’s the number 2 going into camp, and all signs point to a true open competition. 
 

Funny stat of the day, TH makes more than Lamar Jackson 😂😂

 

 

[Andre The Giant]