Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I think he definitely seems a bit harsh on the staff in that quote. How many other teams would have given him the opportunity? Its almost as if he said that like he has nothing to lose so it's fair to assume he's likely gone. 

 

All I can do is read between the lines and the way it came off to me is he feels some there aren't sold on him now.   Otherwise, if I made comments like that and felt that I am coming back, I'd circle it back and say but its all good now and throw in some superlatives directed at the status quo.  

[The Consigliere]

16 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

We used three first rounders and a high 2nd on a QB who absolutely sucked and it was so crippling that we were in the playoffs two years later with his sorry ass on the bench. Of course you would trade three firsts for Russell Wilson if that was an option. Not even a question. 

Three years, but I see your point. I don't want this regardless. I want a QB with a decade plus time horizon. I don't think guys like Wilson have that. Could be wrong. Time will tell, regardless, I can see the point in Watson, he's a full 5+ years younger than Wilson. Investing in a 26 or 27 year old guy I can see, 32+, not so much. 

 

I don't think it makes sense long term though. We need to rebuild the OL, we have a bad pass catching core beyond McLaurin, and maybe our TE, and our back 7 on D is weak. 

 

I want to get a QB, I'd even consider trading for one, but I think it makes more sense trading up for a young guy on a cost controlled contract through 2024+rookie option, so we have the ability to address the back 7 of the D, WR, and the OL, then it does paying through the nose for a vet so we can be a 9-7 team instead of a 5-11 or 6-10 team.  

[skinzplay]

Paulsen is always quick to buy into whatever hired staff are willing to tell him. O'Connell had that poor dude believing he was the second coming. Nobody of consequence shares anything with Paulsen. Nobody.

 

What we do know is that RR had a conversation with Smith at the end of the season. I think he laid out his plans because he's a straight shooter. And he didn't leak that to the media because he's more responsible than that, and it's one of the things I love about RR. Smith wants to keep playing. Can't blame him, dude is a bad ass competitor. I think he would be one helluva asset to have in the QB room, but not necessarily on the field, and that's our quandary for next season.

[Tress Is The Way]

1 hour ago, ODU AGGIE said:

I also appreciate and thank FZ for his work. Here's what it says to me. Don't try to go for a big time FA WR. Use the draft to fill needs, including WRs. Don't try to draft a QB. If the powers that be think Smith has another year left him, then let Smith, TH and Allen duke it out in training camp. If not, then let him go and grab Mariota with as low as possible a 2021 or 2022 draft pick. I say Mariota because I think his skill set and the skill sets of TH and Allen are similar enough that Turner can sub when necessary without having to modify the game plan, whoever the starter is. Then let Mariota, TH and Allen duke it out. Use the draft to fill other needs so as to improve what was already a pretty strong roster in support of whoever the starter is  . Here is one way to do that. 

• Round 1 - Pick 19 - Kadarius Toney, WR, Florida (or best available WR) -- clearly a top five WR and likely to be available
• Round 2 - Pick 51 - Micah Parsons, LB, Penn State (or best available LB) -- may not be available but is my first choice
• Round 3 - Pick 74 - D’Wayne Eskridge, WR, W. Michigan (or best available WR) -- this kid will be a great slot receiver and return specialist
• Round 3 - Pick 82 – Jaylen Mayfield, OT, Michigan (or best available OT) -- had a great game against Chase Young in 2019
• Round 4 - Pick 114 – Michael Carter, RB, North Carolina (or best available RB) -- solid in the passing game and a good, tough runner
• Round 5 - Pick 146 - highest rated and available player or trade for Mariota
• Round 7 - Pick 209 - highest rated and available player or trade for Mariota
• Round 7 - Pick 211 - highest rated and available player or trade for Mariota

If a round 5 pick will not get Mariota, use a 2022 round 4 pick -- just get him as cheaply as possible.

I believe that QB play will be good enough to make the playoffs and likely win the division, and my guess is it will be TH with Mariota as a fully capable backup. If that does not happen to work out, fix it next year.

Final thoughts: Darnold -- NO; Newton -- NO; OldmanFitz; NO

Mariota won't take back-up money and no way in hell is he going to be paid less that TH.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

If Tua is truly a bust, it's just another good reason not to tank.

 

And if Tua is truly a bust, and all the experts were so terribly wrong in their assessment of a guy who was supposed to be better than Aaron Rodgers and Dan Marino, it makes me more confident that they were simply wrong about Heinicke as well.
If they can over-estimate players so badly, and repeatedly, then surely they can miss out on, and underestimate players as well.

Scouts and draft experts are so far from perfect, yet they are treated like they are.

 

"All the experts" were NOT saying Tua was supposed to be better than Rodgers or Marino. That was literally one dude who implied that. Good lord you exaggerate sometimes.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

and that's our quandary for next season.

 

Will see.  My takeaway from that interview is one thing -- he isn't coming back.   I don't feel it as dramatic as Hoffman put it below but my overriding impression is the same which is Alex believes his days are numbered here.  But you never know.  I'd bet though that he's not coming back.  Felt that way before the interview but I believe it stronger now. 

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Will see.  My takeaway from that interview is one thing -- he isn't coming back.   I don't feel it as dramatic as Hoffman put it below but my overriding impression is the same which is Alex believes his days are numbered here.  But you never know.  I'd bet though that he's not coming back.  Felt that way before the interview but I believe it stronger now. 

 

 

 

Completely agree. And they may have already let him know that for all we know. Ron runs a tight ship. But usually does the right thing for the player. I am sure the conversation has already been had. And that interview kind of confirms it too my thinking. 

[skinzplay]

The equally relevant reality is that he would never start for any team other than Washington in 2021, so what to do, then? I do think it'll be hard for anyone to beat out Heinicke in training camp. Mariota ain't gonna do it. Who else among the reasonably available?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

If Tua is truly a bust, it's just another good reason not to tank.

So, the team that was in position to draft a generational QB talent ended up winning enough games that they had to settle for an obviously damaged QB, and this is proof that it's better to win those games?

 

[ODU AGGIE]

1 hour ago, ZarG3 said:

Mariota won't take back-up money and no way in hell is he going to be paid less that TH.

I really don't understand your comment as I never said or even insinuated we would pay Mariota less than TH. Mariota is under contract. If we trade a low draft pick for him, that contract comes with him. He will then compete to be the starting QB and may well be. If he is the backup, it will be because either TH or Allen earned the starting spot in the training camp competition. I hope that clears up your concerns.

[RWJ]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Could be but as we know any team can come up with a better offer anytime and get him.  Shall wait and see.  I remember when we were supposed to land Cutler and he went to Chi. 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

All I can do is read between the lines and the way it came off to me is he feels some there aren't sold on him now.   Otherwise, if I made comments like that and felt that I am coming back, I'd circle it back and say but its all good now and throw in some superlatives directed at the status quo.  

I can only speak for myself but I don't want Alex back primarily for his own good. I don't want to see him get broken in half again. Besides the fact that he is really just an average QB at this point I really think he should move on and start his next career. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Could be but as we know any team can come up with a better offer anytime and get him.  Shall wait and see.  I remember when we were supposed to land Cutler and he went to Chi. 

 

If they try to move him, ditto Darnold, I'd think it will happen before FA so it might get interesting in a week or two.  If I were the Raiders or Jets, I wouldn't want to wait until FA starts because IMO neither player is an obvious hard core get.  So teams might just make their move in FA and forgo trading for either player.

 

Personally I am not nervous.  I like Mariota as a reclamation project but I am not dying to have him.    I don't like Darnold as a reclamation project but my only concern about him is compensation, if they don't give up much for him i wouldn't lose sleep over it.  But i am fine with going with some like Fitzpatrick in FA. 

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If they try to move him, ditto Darnold, I'd think it will happen before FA so it might get interesting in a week or two.  If I were the Raiders or Jets, I wouldn't want to wait until FA starts because IMO neither player is an obvious hard core get.  So teams might just make their move in FA and forgo trading for either player.

 

Personally I am not nervous.  I like Mariota as a reclamation project but I am not dying to have him.    I don't like Darnold as a reclamation project but my only concern about him is compensation, if they don't give up much for him i wouldn't lose sleep over it.  But i am fine with going with some like Fitzpatrick in FA. 

Agree.  Also, WFT may make a play and move up and get a QB though.  Maybe not.  

[RWJ]

Thoughts on Gardner Minshew for a day 3 draft pick.  

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

25 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Thoughts on Gardner Minshew for a day 3 draft pick.  

I like Minshew, but we really kinda have him on the roster already with Heinicke no? Try hard skilled limited up and comer..IDK just a thought. 

[Hitman#21]

31 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Thoughts on Gardner Minshew for a day 3 draft pick.  

 

PASS

[kingdaddy]

37 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Thoughts on Gardner Minshew for a day 3 draft pick.  

I have no problem with that at all....6th or 7th rounder. 

[kingdaddy]

17 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I like Minshew, but we really kinda have him on the roster already with Heinicke no? Try hard skilled limited up and comer..IDK just a thought. 

Minshew did decently well on a putrid team.....Kinda makes you wonder how he'd do on a good team that isn't dysfunctional? I like the way he competes and there's no doubt he was constantly in games where he had to throw a ton to keep them in games. He reminds me of a guy who could have a career like Fitzpatrick has had.....folk hero type but never the hero. 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I like Minshew, but we really kinda have him on the roster already with Heinicke no? Try hard skilled limited up and comer..IDK just a thought. 

 

I noted this before but to me Minshew is basically Heinicke on steroids. Some similarities in his game but bigger, stronger, and with a better arm. Plus he's proven he can play over the course of 1 1/2 seasons or so. I wouldn't give up much for him but I'd be ok with a mid round pick I think.

[Conn]

I’d rather roster Minshew than Allen, and would trade a 6th to make it happen. He’s limited but has gumption, he can win games off the bench and doesn’t have durability questions. He’s a good locker room guy and is a guy people love to get behind when he HAS to play, bc he’s fun. 
 

Saw some analytics today showing that the Jags were the worst in the league in situational playcalling, almost across the board (lol Jay Gruden). They were the worst in the league running when it’s more efficient to pass and passing when it’s more efficient to run. They did him no favors. 

[actorguy1]

1. Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) | 6'6/213 | Hand: 10

Comp: Andrew Luck

2. Justin Fields (Ohio State) | 6’3/228

Comp: Deshaun Watson

 

3. Trey Lance (North Dakota State) | 6’4/227

Comp: Steve McNair

 

4. Zach Wilson (BYU) | 6’2/210

Comp: Tony Romo

 

5. Mac Jones (Alabama) | 6'3/217 | Hand: 9 3/4

Comp: Less-mobile Andy Dalton

 

6. Jamie Newman (Wake Forest) | 6'3/235 | Hand: 10

Comp: David Garrard

 

7. Kyle Trask (Florida) | 6'4/239

Comp: Nick Foles

 

---

8. Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) | 6'2/217 | Hand: 9 1/4

Comp: Josh Dobbs

 

9. Davis Mills (Stanford) | 6'4/212

Comp: Skinny Nathan Stanley

 

10. Shane Buechele (SMU) | 6'1/207

Comp: Case Keenum

[KDawg]

He’s got Buechele 4 spots too low. But the top 5 mirrors mine.

[mistertim]

"Less mobile Andy Dalton" for Mac Jones. Yikes.