Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[ExoDus84]

18 minutes ago, A-Lost-Wolf said:

 

You just made me spit out my beer you ****, bless your heart 

 

It's only 3:30PM on the east coast and you're already ripping beers.

 

You must be a Wizards fan.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

I always thought these throw days were a waste of time. 

[RWJ]

These QB trades (even agreements put in place), I'm starting to think might not take place until draft night or just before.  It seems like F.O.s are sizing each other up right now.  Who knows though.

Edited February 12, 2021 by RWJ

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

These QB trades (even agreements put in place), I'm starting to think might not take place until draft night or just before.  It seems like F.O.s are sizing each other up right now.  Who knows though.

 

A lot of these will get done before FA. Teams will want to know what they have to pay at QB before they fill in the blanks at other positions at FA.

 

Teams that are over the cap will also want to know what they are working with money wise. so a team like the Raiders will want to move a guy sooner rather than later. Some of these will linger to the draft, but probably only cases where teams are well below the cap and can afford to wait as a QB does not blow up their whole offseason.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

A lot of these will get done before FA. Teams will want to know what they have to pay at QB before they fill in the blanks at other positions at FA.

 

Teams that are over the cap will also want to know what they are working with money wise. so a team like the Raiders will want to move a guy sooner rather than later. Some of these will linger to the draft, but probably only cases where teams are well below the cap and can afford to wait as a QB does not blow up their whole offseason.

Agreed, this is all pre FA posturing. 
 

No chance the Raiders want Carr and Mariota on the payroll come free agency, they are already making cap driven moves.

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Only WFT news was add him to the pile of the Vegas reporter, and John Keim that they like Derek Carr. 

seems to me like our #1 move at this stage is getting a QB from the Raiders. Which one is anyone’s guess.

[HigSkin]

 

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, skinzplay said:

 

My man Steve Austin wasn't worth but $6 million. Dak sure as hell ain't worth 40.

Next QB up, that's how the system works. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I still would like Trask in round 2 more than Mac Jones in round 1. I think I'm one of the few that thinks he's a better prospect. I just saw a lot more NFL quality throws in tighter windows when watching Trask. I see a lot of people knock on the athletic ability of Trask but he maneuvers quite well within the pocket. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[heyholetsgogrant]

6 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I still would like Trask in round 2 more than Mac Jones in round 1. I think I'm one of the few that thinks he's a better prospect. I just saw a lot more NFL quality throws in tighter windows when watching Trask. I see a lot of people knock on the athletic ability of Trask but he maneuvers quite well within the pocket. 

What's the knock on Trask?  He had a monster year this year at FL, is he too much of a statue?

[Burgundy Yoda]

14 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said:

What's the knock on Trask?  He had a monster year this year at FL, is he too much of a statue?

Lack of mobility and average arm strength. He does have a tendency to fit it in really tight windows but so does Zach Wilson. His main knock is he isn't flashy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Darren Haynes, who covers the team for a local TV station just said on 106.7 that he spoke with someone he knows who works for the team who told him they like Trey Lance.  

 

Funny thing is neither Haynes or Chris Myles (it was his radio show on 106.7) seem to know who the heck Lance was.  So Myles goes yeah you don't take a dude like that at 19, you can get him later in the draft and Haynes agreed. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Interesting.  Kyle Trask for me is the Sam Darnold of the draft -- in other words 4th round or later otherwise I wouldn't be happy.   The kicker for me was how he unraveled in his last game sans Pitts and Toney.  But cool to see all three of them working together. 

 

 

 

[Dark Acre]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Peyton Manning grew up rich. He turned out okay.

Peyton Manning grew up with Archie Manning as his father.  That's why he turned out okay.  I'll bet you anything that Archie's will says that if Peyton didn't win a SB, his inheritance was going to charity.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Interesting.  Kyle Trask for me is the Sam Darnold of the draft -- in other words 4th round or later otherwise I wouldn't be happy.   The kicker for me was how he unraveled in his last game sans Pitts and Toney.  But cool to see all three of them working together. 

 

 

 

One game really isn't indication of much and that was without his top two targets. Fields has had stinkers this year, Lawrence has had some. I think its reasonable to expect an off game or two by prospects. That was really a bad game by him but I think it's understandable when the guys you've built chemistry with all year go out. 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

One game really isn't indication of much and that was without his top two targets. Fields has had stinkers this year, Lawrence has had some. I think its reasonable to expect an off game or two by prospects. That was really a bad game by him but I think it's understandable when the guys you've built chemistry with all year go out. 

 

I spent plenty of time watching Trask, talked about it all season on the draft thread.   I have more friends who are UF fans than any other college.  I watched most of their games.   I spent quite some time trying to sell myself on Jones and Trask because once it looked like we would win the division those were the two dudes looking to be more within the range of our pick.  Since then Trask has fallen i noticed with most draft geeks to the 2nd-3rd round, Jones seems to some a top 15 pick or late first.   

 

For me personally, i see Jones as a late first-2nd round talent.  Don't love him.  Sort of like him.  As for Trask to me he's late 2nd-4thround type.  I just don't think Trask is that good.  I've explained why in detail plenty of times on the draft thread.  Plenty of QBs put up big numbers in college -- Kellen Moore, Colt McCoy and plenty more.   With college QBs, I look for traits.  i don't see special traits in Trait, even accuracy is weird with him where he is just OK with the short stuff in the flat.  PFF has talked about that some -- they ranked him 50th on those throws.  Jones was ranked #1. 

 

I wouldn't die on the hill for Jones either.   But Jones IMO has two things he does really really well.  His accuracy is awesome in the flat.  He sets up receivers well for YAC because he hits them in stride.  i also love the way Jones looks off safeties and use his body language to misdirect defenders.   For Trask, I like that he's tough in the pocket even though he's not mobile, and throws some beauty outroutes but otherwise its just hard for me to dig his game.  Both QBs benefit from killer receivers -- I've seen both QBs bailed out plenty with throws that were off the mark.  

 

That's just my opinion of course.  No rights or wrong.  But I've spent enough time watching Trask to feel confident in my own mind that I've seen enough.    Fields has had stinkers but his talent IMO >>>>>>> Trask.  I am all about traits for college QBs and I just don't see it with Trask.  I am unsure about Jones.  As for Fields, I'd kill to have him. 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Burgundy Yoda]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I spent plenty of time watching Trask, talked about it all season on the draft thread.   I have more friends who are UF fans than any other college.  I watched most of their games.   I spent quite some time trying to sell myself on Jones and Trask because once it looked like we would win the division those were the two dudes looking to be more within the range of our pick.  Since then Trask has fallen i noticed with most draft geeks to the 2nd-3rd round, Jones seems to some a top 15 pick or late first.   

 

For me personally, i see Jones as a late first-2nd round talent.  Don't love him.  Sort of like him.  As for Trask to me he's late 2nd-4thround type.  I just don't think Trask is that good.  I've explained why in detail plenty of times on the draft thread.  Plenty of QBs put up big numbers in college -- Kellen Moore, Colt McCoy and plenty more.   With college QBs, I look for traits.  i don't see special traits in Trait, even accuracy is weird with him where he is just OK with the short stuff in the flat.  PFF has talked about that some -- they ranked him 50th on those throws.  Jones was ranked #1. 

 

I wouldn't die on the hill for Jones either.   But Jones IMO has two things he does really really well.  His accuracy is awesome in the flat.  He sets up receivers well for YAC because he hits them in stride.  i also love the way Jones looks off safeties and use his body language to misdirect defenders.   For Trask, I like that he's tough in the pocket even though he's not mobile, and throws some beauty outroutes but otherwise its just hard for me to dig his game.  Both QBs benefit from killer receivers -- I've seen both QBs bailed out plenty with throws that were off the mark.  

 

That's just my opinion of course.  No rights or wrong.  But I've spent enough time watching Trask to feel confident in my own mind that I've seen enough.    Fields has had stinkers but his talent IMO >>>>>>> Trask.  I am all about traits for college QBs and I just don't see it with Trask.  I am unsure about Jones.  As for Fields, I'd kill to have him. 

 

 

Im not trying to convince you on Trask. I think your mind is made up about him, I just wanted to point out that a stinker shouldn't be a big reason why hes viewed negatively. Like I said, even the top prospects have bad games.  

 

I don't think there's a big gap between the two, they're both second to third round talents with limited upside. Mac does have Brady-like traits, the shoulder fake gets defenders to jump, he actually has a pretty smooth (but fairly low) release. My issue with Mac is there is no film of him being surrounded by chaos, I think he's the type that will take a ton of bad looking sacks if he's thrusted out too early.

 

Trask has quite a bit of film where he's getting pressured and I see the urgency in his footwork in the pocket and you see the feet bouncing. Trask is a statue when he runs but honestly Mac Jones looks more like a statue to me in the pocket. Outside of the pocket it's different. Ball placement is fairly similar between the two, both are what I would consider accurate passers. The unknown about Mac Jones scares me more than the known about Trask. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am all about traits for college QBs and I just don't see it with Trask.  I am unsure about Jones. 

Are you sure? People didn't see traits in Tom Brady either.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Trade three #1's, Heinicke, K. Allen, and A. Smith, in exchange for Justin Herbert.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

One game really isn't indication of much and that was without his top two targets.

 

Agree, and that's why I used the word "kicker" as to that last game.  I gave almost a blow by blow take of Trask during the college season.  That last game finished him off for me, i was already leaning against him from what I saw before that. 

 

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

 don't think there's a big gap between the two, they're both second to third round talents with limited upside. Mac does have Brady-like traits, the shoulder fake gets defenders to jump, he actually has a pretty smooth (but fairly low) release. My issue with Mac is there is no film of him being surrounded by chaos, I think he's the type that will take a ton of bad looking sacks if he's thrusted out too early.

 

On occasion you see Mac deal with pressure, and I like his footwork and ability to navigate the pocket from that small sample better than I do Trask.  Trask is a tough dude so he can take a hit and isn't scared to get hit but i don't like his footwork with trash at his feet.

 

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Trask is a statue when he runs but honestly Mac Jones looks more like a statue to me in the pocket. 

 

Not to me. 

 

1 hour ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

The unknown about Mac Jones scares me more than the known about Trask. 

 

I don't really want either one.  But if they took Jones I'd get it.   i've watched some of their games twice.  I've seen Mac play live once but not Trask.  When you see them live its easier IMO to see arm velocity.  I think Mac's arm strength is OK, not great, not bad.  Trask on TV looks similar on that front.

 

Trask will make more wow throws.  But Jones to me is the more consistent thrower as for accuracy all across the field and does so with good anticipation.

 

Don't love Jones though because his arm strength is so so.  He's not fast or a dude that makes plays outside the pocket.  Neither does Trask.  But the main reason why I prefer Jones is his footwork in the pocket, and like I've said about him a ton for months now he's like a pro when it comes to manipulating safeties and defenders with his eyes/body language/fakes.  I watched a couple of Darnold games last week and was amazed how bad he was at doing that from the context of his eyes/starring whereas Mac looked like a polished pro in comparison.

 

I also liked what i read about Mac's personality, high intangibes, comes off more outgoing than some of the stuff I've read about Trask. 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[86 Snyder]

Im gonna just say, Trevor Lawrence is a little overrated.  I like him a lot, but I dont see this perfect prospect so many do.  I think he'll be really good but lets hold off on the gold jacket just yet.  

[PartyPosse]

Two firsts and Montez Sweat for Watson, sign JJ Watt.

[Jericho]

10 hours ago, RWJ said:

Yes, and with the Colts, Pats, Bears and others interested the price for Mariota might be higher than we think.

 

Not sure where all this perceived value on Mariota is coming from. Mariota was an unrestricted free agent last year and couldn't find a single starting job. Not even from New England, who had no starter on the roster (they eventually circled back to Newton months later). That's also why I don't see Washington going the Mariota route. Washington basically had only Haskins on the roster when free agency started (Smith was a huge wild card at best.) If Rivera really believed in Mariota, he could have signed him last year. He didn't seem to show any interest.

 

Now all of a sudden these same teams would give up prime draft picks for a guy who did nothing last season and everyone passed over a year ago? Color me skeptical.

[skinzplay]

Those alphabet networks and websites drive up the value of players who are likely to be marginal at the pro level. Darnold, J. Russell, Haskins.....the list goes on. Good FOs don't reach for the low-hanging fruit. Look at ol' Brady. Alphabet soup had nothing to say about him back in 2000. Only the Pats and Matt Cavanaugh wanted him. The Ravens have had a damn good scouting department, but ended up taking Chris Redmond in the third instead of Brady, as Cavanaugh wanted.

 

I'm glad that we now have a strong, competent FO structure where the football minds are making the critical decisions about player acquisition. I want Lance, let him sit and learn (entire off-season and maybe a full year.......or bring him in mid-season depending on how things are flowing). For me, it's bring in a vet and let him compete with Heinicke and Allen. I really doubt, thought, that there's anybody who can come in and run this offense with precision like either of those guys (and by anybody, I'm talking about a player who won't cost of too much draft or other capital to acquire). The defense is good enough (and only getting better). I don't want to sacrifice the ability to continue building a strong, nasty, scary roster by giving away valuable players or draft picks. This FO and these coaches know how to use those picks.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Not sure where all this perceived value on Mariota is coming from. Mariota was an unrestricted free agent last year and couldn't find a single starting job.

The Raiders want rid of one of their QBs. It’s all hype. Carr and Mariota, they have a combined cap hit of 34mil, mostly non guaranteed and therefore easily cut. Mariota getting 11mil as back-up, madness.