Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Lovi]

2 hours ago, Number 44 said:

WFT isn't in position to mortgage the next 2 drafts on a "what if" like this.  The "window" for our defense is the next 3-4 years, and this move closes about half of that window.  We have Alex Smith, but he isn't anywhere near the same Alex Smith that KC had when they drafted Mahomes.  That is obvious.  And, I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your premise that Lance is likely to be Mahomes.  The guy is a project with tools, and just isn't worth the gamble, IMO, given WFT's situation.  If RR and company believe he is, fine, but I strongly doubt that.

 

I kinda think they are actually.  I mean everyone has holes, but if we can get a QB the rest kinda falls in line (assuming he's successful).  We can get in FA what we need having a good cap situation.  And it doesn't appear that QB in the draft is a promising one as well.  I'd say if they think a guy is worth moving up for then they should do whatever they need to do to make it happen.

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I’m not opposed to Lance but my biggest concern is if Taylor isn’t the guy then we’re wasting the 2021 season. If Taylor is the guy then we didn’t need to spend a first on a QB project when we had other needs to be filled.

No, we're not.  We're shoring up the team with another very good draft [from my lips to God's ear], smart FA acquisitions, protecting our future, AND if we suck, then we have a high draft pick we can parlay into that vaunted FQB.  Let other teams screw the pooch.  When the dust settles, we'll be ahead.

 

Also, Damno to Darnold. 

 

Frankly, for any QB trade I would only do a contingent deal.  If he sucks, the team we traded with gets equivalent value.  If he wins SB MVP then while we will have traded a bunch of high round picks, we will have a guy who actually has proven himself to be a FQB.

Edited February 11, 2021 by GothSkinsFan

[Skinsinparadise]

Hopefully they offer a 5th rounder if so tops.  Like I've said the last two times we've had major QB debates over the years, they've done the thing I want the least to happen.  So if they are going for the hat trick, three in a row, it would be Darnold for a first or 2nd.  😧

 

 

 

If this is true, and got my doubts since the previous rumors about SF wanting Stafford ended up BS, make it happen Kyle Shanahan! 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

No, we're not.  We're shoring up the team with another very good draft [from my lips to God's ear], smart FA acquisitions, protecting our future, AND if we suck, then we have a high draft pick we can parlay into that vaunted FQB.  Let other teams screw the pooch.  When the dust settles, we'll be ahead.

 

Also, Damno to Darnold. 

 

Frankly, for any QB trade I would only do a contingent deal.  If he sucks, the team we traded with gets equivalent value.  If he wins SB MVP then while we will have traded a bunch of high round picks, we will have a guy who actually has proven himself to be a FQB.

This year, as weird as it sounds, is the absolute best year for the team to win. No one is up for a giant raise yet and the team has a fair amount of cap space to fill needs. Starting next year we have to worry about extensions for Terry Mac, Allen, Moses, Ion etc. And then the next year it gets even worse.

 

The team simply can't afford to let a year go to waste. 

[daveakl]

It's really simple to see what we should do:

Trade the 19 for a 2nd in 2021 and a 2nd in 2022

Trade the newly acquired 2nd in 2021 for a 3rd in 2021 and a 2nd in 2022

Trade the newly acquired 3rd for a 4th in 2021 and a 3rd in 2022

2021 we now have: 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 7, 7

2022 we now have: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3

In 2022 we trade a 1, 2, 2, 3 to move up in the draft and take Kedon Slovis, QB, USC

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim in the mix of his points said some teams inquire about trade value for players even when they are not into that player but because they are curious to trade value.  The idea behind it is they feel like each QB on the market can shape the full market as to value at the spot.  Hopefully that's what they are doing here.🙄

[actorguy1]

 

[PartyPosse]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim in the mix of his points said some teams inquire about trade value for players even when they are not into that player but because they are curious to trade value.  The idea behind it is they feel like each QB on the market can shape the full market as to value at the spot.  Hopefully that's what they are doing here.🙄

I also am sure some teams are trying to drive up the price by faking interest if they know some of their conference rivals are also interested. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I wouldn’t trade anymore than a 5-7th round pick for him. He’s only 23, you want to give him a shot at turning it around and showing you something, fine. Otherwise I’d pass. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I also am sure some teams are trying to drive up the price by faking interest if they know some of their conference rivals are also interested. 

 

Could be, too.  I found Keim's point interesting and it made sense but never thought of it that way.  That is, some teams will poke around on players even if they don't intend to trade for that player because it helps them to know what the market is for that player especially if they are shopping for other players at that position.  

 

So for example Carolina said they'd explore every Qb option.  It made no sense to me that they would.  But I guess it makes sense for them to have a beat on everything that's going on as for Qbs on the market.

 

Not saying that I know that's what happened with Darnold.  Got no idea.  But Keim's point made me think for the first time that an inquiry doesn't always mean something deep. 

 

5 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

I love Allen Robinson.  But I am not letting that dictate my move at QB.  And i doubt Sam Darnold talks him into coming here.  He's trying to escape Trubisky -- people can goof on Trubisky and i have myself but some of Trubisky's numbers looks like Joe Montana compared to Darnold. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

That SF/Jets talk is BS.

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Big fan of that trade. I know it is a lot to give up on paper, but you aren't asking Lance to come in and start in 2021. Heinecke/Allen battle it out and take the reigns for 2021. If Trey Lance moves the needle in camp maybe he gets a shot, but I think you stick him at QB3 and give him a "grey shirt" year.

 

His talent is there. He will fail if you throw him in as raw as he is. But if he goes back and plays in 2021 he likely ends up as a Top 3 pick, if not the #1 pick. So in a sense you're buying him at a slight discount for taking the risk of him not developing as quickly. But I get the concerns. But if the staff sees the talent and has a development plan for him, I'm all in on that price. And you lock in an affordable QB for the next 5 years, which is ideal.

I will pass on two first rounders for a project QB. I would much rather spend a 3rd on Mariotta. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[heyholetsgogrant]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Hopefully they offer a 5th rounder if so tops.  Like I've said the last two times we've had major QB debates over the years, they've done the thing I want the least to happen.  So if they are going for the hat trick, three in a row, it would be Darnold for a first or 2nd.  😧

 

 

 

If this is true, and got my doubts since the previous rumors about SF wanting Stafford ended up BS, make it happen Kyle Shanahan! 

 

 

 

jets fleecing the 49ers? who would have thought?

[TradeTheBeal!]

Not too shabby!

 

 

[CommDownMan]

5 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Not too shabby!

 

 

 

I was half expecting a picture of a bench.

[PartyPosse]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Could be, too.  I found Keim's point interesting and it made sense but never thought of it that way.  That is, some teams will poke around on players even if they don't intend to trade for that player because it helps them to know what the market is for that player especially if they are shopping for other players at that position.  

Teams do this a lot at the draft. Fake interest, fake demand. I think that's how SF got so much for swapping spots with Chicago for Trubisky. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

SAM DARNOLD IS A GOOD QUARTERBACK

 

I AM ANGRY

Edited February 11, 2021 by TryTheBeal!

[Burgundy Yoda]

I am at least encouraged that this team is not sitting on their hands, but Darnold does not inspire me. I really don't even think he's a better QB than Kyle Allen and Heinicke. I'd rather not give up a premium pick for a player who isn't even sure to beat out two undrafted players. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[method man]

If Carr is not an option, I'm on the boat of giving Jameis or one of the better FA QBs a 1 or 2 year deal to compete with Heinicke and Allen. I would then trade back in the first to pick up a 1st in 2022 so that I have the draft capital to move up to take a Howell or Rattler.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

SAM DARNOLD IS A GOOD QUARTERBACK

 

I AM ANGRY

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Why won't Washington trade for, say, Sam Darnold?

Because he might be really bad.

The thought of saving a 23-year-old and former No. 3 selection from the Jets and, more importantly, the influence of Adam Gase is awfully tempting, sure. What if Darnold is a star waiting to break out who just needs a better environment than the dark, smelly closet where he was trying to grow since entering the league?

There's definitely a chance that he's one transaction away from blossoming, but that angle is for another day. For now, consider this counter to that idea: What if he's just a bust?

Perhaps Rivera and Scott Turner are too turned off by Darnold's sub-60% career completion percentage and his 45-to-39 TD-to-INT ratio. Maybe they're content to leave the task of figuring him out to another team.

Acquiring Darnold for something like a second rounder and a Day 3 choice would be a bargain for someone who went at the top of the draft just three years ago. That said, sometimes players are bargains for a reason.

[Darth Tater]

44 minutes ago, Lovi said:

 

I kinda think they are actually.  I mean everyone has holes, but if we can get a QB the rest kinda falls in line (assuming he's successful).  We can get in FA what we need having a good cap situation.  And it doesn't appear that QB in the draft is a promising one as well.  I'd say if they think a guy is worth moving up for then they should do whatever they need to do to make it happen.

Thing is Alex did not cost in terms of resources compared to what people are throwing out for a project and Alex's performance 2018 given 2011-2017 performance indicates that much about a QB's season has to do with the coach and surrounding assets. KC was pretty stacked when Andy made that move and KC's problem is now a meh defense (similar to his time with the Eagles).  Andy Reid's "big brother" (he and Holmgren look almost like twins and their careers were earily similar) was the guy who pushed for Young (his original team thought he was a bust) and wanted Farve. Reid took McNabb over Williams and got Alex (the best QB available in 2013) for about what we paid several years later! Those two are also coaching descendants of Walsh who basically invented the standards for the modern QB (who also learned much of his craft from Paul Brown who laid much of the groundwork for designing offense). Mahomes had multiple quality seasons in college and even then road the bench as a rookie.

 

The last time we found a franchise guy in round 1 was Sammy Baugh (and not for the lack of trying).  We made did make two good trades (Sonny and Joe), a one year overpay (Brad) and another that might have been a good one (Alex) if not for injury. Our top people only got a decent QB because they had the natural pick and he had multiple bad years and looks done. None of our brain trust have a history of doing well pursuing top QB talent though some do have a bit of history developing good QBs thought mediocre.

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Teams do this a lot at the draft. Fake interest, fake demand. I think that's how SF got so much for swapping spots with Chicago for Trubisky. 

 

The other thing that hit me is it helps push trading teams to put youself in the mix of everything or perceived mix of everything.  It helps your leverage.

 

For example lets say you want to trade for Mariota and they are dragging their feet waiting for the best offer -- you can try to flip that on them by suggesting hey it doesn't have to be your guy, we are not going to sit back and wait for you, we will trade for someone else.  

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, daveakl said:

It's really simple to see what we should do:

Trade the 19 for a 2nd in 2021 and a 2nd in 2022

Trade the newly acquired 2nd in 2021 for a 3rd in 2021 and a 2nd in 2022

Trade the newly acquired 3rd for a 4th in 2021 and a 3rd in 2022

2021 we now have: 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 7, 7

2022 we now have: 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3

In 2022 we trade a 1, 2, 2, 3 to move up in the draft and take Kedon Slovis, QB, USC

Saw a report today where the Cowboys will be forced to tag Dak this year opening the door for Dak to be an unrestricted free agent in 2022....just sayin, he could be on the market and we MIGHT still have a big hole at QB?