Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me a first and that's it.  But it sounds like the Raiders will only trade Carr if someone overpays so at this point I am counting him out.

I think Carr is there to be had, Gruden can live with Mariotta and save a ton of cap space in the process, which they could really do with.

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The next move will be getting a deal done with Kyle Allen.

Though he was injured in 2020, Rivera and offensive coordinator Scott Turner believe in Allen. In fact, during a season-ending press conference, Rivera said that he thinks the organization could have won as many games with Allen as they did with veteran Alex Smith. 

Allen is a restricted free agent, which means Washington controls his next move and can give him a tender offer worth about $900,000 for 2021.

Give him the same deal as Heinicke, works out a wash over the next couple of years that we can have the exclusive rights to him.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Nice to hear Keim talk about trading back if it makes sense. If none of the blue chip guys fall I would welcome a trade into R2 and adding a 4th and a future 1st or something like that. It’s a deep OT and WR class. 
 

of course, if Slater is there and you can add a legit LT at 19 you kind of hve to take it. But having a pair of 1st rounders next year would make a lot of us feel better about rolling into the season with HEINECKE/Allen/mid-round rookie. Playing the long game 

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Nice to hear Keim talk about trading back if it makes sense. If none of the blue chip guys fall I would welcome a trade into R2 and adding a 4th and a future 1st or something like that. It’s a deep OT and WR class. 
 

of course, if Slater is there and you can add a legit LT at 19 you kind of hve to take it. But having a pair of 1st rounders next year would make a lot of us feel better about rolling into the season with HEINECKE/Allen/mid-round rookie. Playing the long game 

Is rather have Collins/Darrisaw/Slater/Moehrig at 19 if they are available. But if we’re going to draft a slot not named Waddle... I’d rather trade back 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Heinicke on 106.7, Junkies.  That dude is probably the most articulate/charasmatic/funniest QB's we've had since Theismann.

 

He has the reputation for being quiet, but once you get the dude talking, he's a bit of character.   He said his best attribute is quickly decoding with the defenses throw at him -- and listening to him that's easy to believe.  

 

58 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think Carr is there to be had, Gruden can live with Mariotta and save a ton of cap space in the process, which they could really do with.

 

 

I think Carr could be had if you give up two firsts.  I just wouldn't do it though.  I like Carr but he's not a dude I am that infatuated with that I'd go crazy. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[dyst]

I would gladly take a trade back if we don’t think great talent awaits at #19. Get first round pick next year + an extra day 2 pick this year. Now you will have two firsts next year as bargaining chips. Again, only if we don’t like anyone at #19.

[HigSkin]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Heinicke on 106.7, Junkies.  That dude is probably the most articulate/charasmatic/funniest QB's we've had since Theismann.

 

He has the reputation for being quiet, but once you get the dude talking, he's a bit of character.   He said his best attribute is quickly decoding with the defenses throw at him -- and listening to him that's easy to believe.  

 

 

I listened as well, agree.

 

 

[DJHJR86]

18 hours ago, wit33 said:

Not sure where you fell back in the Kirk days, but this is the same argument us “anti Kirkers” were on. 

 

I was firmly in the re-sign Kirk camp after the Raiders gave Derek Carr a $125 million extension.  

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim said the same as the below tweet.  He doubled down on considering 5 targets. But he also mentioned they can end up landing no one.  Just wanting to upgrade and actually pulling it off are two different animals. 

 

Sheehan is going to be unsufferable for me on the Darnold stuff.  They got into him in the mix of others.  Keim has been consistent in that sources from other teams have told him they'd think the WFT would be in on Darnold.  Keim wouldn't give up a high pick for Darnold, or at least not a first.  Then Sheehan kicks in that he'd gladly give up a first and then he'd sign up to an extension.  He went on to cite some of the specific handful games that the Jets won with Darnold.  Keim mentioned Darnold's injury history, and Sheehan just shurgged it off.

 

I love listening to Sheehan but he's a hard listen when you disagree with him.  I recall last summer he basically called Haskins bust proof.    He's been right and wrong like all of us. 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[SonnySideUp]

There's been more and more buzz lately about the possibility of Russell Wilson becoming available. Would be VERY expensive though.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/russell-wilson-trade-rumors-ranking-13-logical-suitors-including-cowboys-dolphins-and-patriots/

 

 

[Warhead36]

I like Sheehan but like many people once he falls in love with someone he is ride or die with them. He's still a Shanahan stan too.

 

But latching on to Sam freaking Darnold? Its amazing the hill some people choose to die upon...

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Is rather have Collins/Darrisaw/Slater/Moehrig at 19 if they are available. But if we’re going to draft a slot not named Waddle... I’d rather trade back 

 

I've heard really good things about Moehrig. But my "weighted BPA" self just can't envision drafting a FS at 19. The positional value and ROI just don't hit it for me. I feel like you could make a play on a solid FS in R2 or R3. Or get a veteran to come in for peanuts compared to other positions. I think I'd be bummed out drafting Moehrig at 19 even if he is a legit high-end FS, especially over a legit LT or potential franchise WR. I assume Moehrig being listed last on your list there means he'd be the 4th guy you'd take of that bunch (and Waddle), but I think if Moehrig was BPA I would realllllly want to trade back. We may get a FS in FA so that might be moot anyway.

[sjinhan]

7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I suggested a while back in this thread that we give Heinicke and Allen the same deals, give them both 2 year 4 mil deals and let them stick around for 2 seasons. Great backup depth, which should not be undervalued. Plus either still gives us the chance to win/be competitive if called upon, especially if we build on our core D and add a couple of attacking options.

Might well take that, I agree. 

 

We will probably get Kyle Allen on a 1 year minimum contract because he is a ERFA.  It would be great if we can get Kyle Allen on a deal similar to Heinicke for 2 years but when you look at from Kyle Allen perspective, I would think I wouldn't accept a 2 year deal that Heinicke signed.  Allen does have some starting (limited) experience and if Allen manages to show improvement next near then he should be primed but at a minimum a much higher backup QB deal with WFT or elsewhere.

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Nice to hear Keim talk about trading back if it makes sense. If none of the blue chip guys fall I would welcome a trade into R2 and adding a 4th and a future 1st or something like that. It’s a deep OT and WR class. 
 

of course, if Slater is there and you can add a legit LT at 19 you kind of hve to take it. But having a pair of 1st rounders next year would make a lot of us feel better about rolling into the season with HEINECKE/Allen/mid-round rookie. Playing the long game 

 

1 hour ago, dyst said:

I would gladly take a trade back if we don’t think great talent awaits at #19. Get first round pick next year + an extra day 2 pick this year. Now you will have two firsts next year as bargaining chips. Again, only if we don’t like anyone at #19.

 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2019/04/colts-trade-no-26-to-redskins

Sweat trade we got 26 and gave up 46 and future 2.

 

19 has more value, but a 1st back might require a big drop. 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2020/story/_/id/29045298/2020-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-every-deal-first-round-pick

 

Last year Patriots gave up 23 to Chargers for 37 (2nd)  and 71 (3rd).

 

While there have been instances of future 1sts, its not real common unless someone loves a faller.

 

I'm fine moving back to 30-35 if there are say 10 guys we like with similar grades, but I'd wager it might be more like 3rd and future 3rd or just a future 2nd.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2019-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-details-of-all-the-moves-0ap3000001027756

 

One more from 2019... 

Eagles did 22 for 25, 127 (4), 197 (6)

Giants did 30 for 37, 132 (4), 142 (5)

 

Make the 2 4th 2022 3rds.  Starting at 19, say go back to 29 (same 3 Eagles + 7 Giants spots).  Have 1st (29), add 5th and 6th this year and 2 3rd next year.  Not as sexy, but wouldn't change too much by dropping this year.

 

https://www.footballperspective.com/2018-first-round-draft-trades/

 

I lied, one more.  2018 Saints gave up future first.

Packers trade: 14th overall
Saints trade: 27th overall, 147th overall, and 2019 1st round pick

 

So they added a 5th and went 13.  That's Bucs or out of first round.  Hard to say, but doable I guess.

Edited February 11, 2021 by jsharrin55

[RWJ]

It seems like with all the vet QBs being mentioned that Washington has been interested in via NFL beat reporters the best of the bunch by a decent margin is Carr.  Overpaying would have to be done to get him.  IF RR wants to win now, I think 2 1st gets him here.  Same compensation as FT a player.  Doubt RR does it though.  QB value is crazy after the Stafford trade.  They let one fall to them in the draft but Ian Rappoport mentioned starter so they are seeking a vet it would seem.

[Die Hard]

If you want to trade for a QB, do it next offseason. Since there’s limited QB options in the draft, and the schedule is brutal so it’s unlikely to matter. Just keep building on the foundation.

[Warhead36]

I wouldn't want to trade out of the 1st. That 5th year option can be really valuable. Imagine Jonathan Allen being a FA right now...

[BurgundyBooger]

How about we keep our 1st and stop paying a premium for scraps? Are we really this thirsty for average QB play? We can make some real improvements on the team this offseason with our picks and with an improved record next year we'll more easily lure talented FA's next offseason who'll actually want to come here to play.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Catching the tail end of a Keim segment, he mentioned some in the league are intrigued by Winston (he's not sure about the WFT) but thinks NO would likely lock him in. 

 

Then Sheehan kicked in saying he's heard they liked Fields (which he's said before) who he heard is opposite to Haskins as to maturity, leadership, style of playing.  Keim said he's heard from Ohio State people the same about Fields' intangibles.

 

Keim doesn't suspect they'd trade up unless a player falls, he doesn't think they'd trade a ton of capital to move up big in the draft.  He thinks better chance they trade down and build 2022 trade capital if they can't land a QB. 

 

Sheehan asked Keim to guess if they go status quo as for the starter or someone new -- Keim guessed someone new but didn't know.

This is something I postulated a while back.  Might be tough to find a trade partner, but the idea of still adding young talent while setting the team up to better afford trading up down the road is a more farsighted move than we’re used to around here.  Don’t love the idea of punting on qb, but smart drafting and cap maintenance can help extend the window we keep harping on.

[KDawg]

Caught Sheehan's pod from yesterday this AM. I like Sheehan's takes even when I don't agree. They at least make sense from a logical perspective.

 

Standig was the star, though. He said a line absolutely perfectly when it comes to this QB search.

 

Mariota or someone like him (that part is paraphrased) is "conceivably better than Allen and Heinicke, but not necessary demonstratively."

 

The context was QB competition and if bringing them in meant Heinicke/Allen wouldn't be in competition anymore.

 

Perfectly said.

 

The question then has to become: Is it worth getting a guy who is conceivably better but not demonstratively better?

 

 

[Warhead36]

42 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said:

How about we keep our 1st and stop paying a premium for scraps? Are we really this thirsty for average QB play? We can make some real improvements on the team this offseason with our picks and with an improved record next year we'll more easily lure talented FA's next offseason who'll actually want to come here to play.

Agreed with this. I was fine with trading for Stafford and would be fine trading for Watson because they're real needle movers and would drastically increase our ability to win games. But Carr? Mariotta? Freaking Sam Darnold? They just don't change this team much at all. I'd rather take my chances at finding a young talented player that could be a potential cornerstone for the next 5+ years at pick 19.

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Caught Sheehan's pod from yesterday this AM. I like Sheehan's takes even when I don't agree. They at least make sense from a logical perspective.

 

Standig was the star, though. He said a line absolutely perfectly when it comes to this QB search.

 

Mariota or someone like him (that part is paraphrased) is "conceivably better than Allen and Heinicke, but not necessary demonstratively."

 

The context was QB competition and if bringing them in meant Heinicke/Allen wouldn't be in competition anymore.

 

Perfectly said.

 

The question then has to become: Is it worth getting a guy who is conceivably better but not demonstratively better?

 

 

Yep my sentiments exactly as I said in the post above. Get someone who's BETTER better. Not just negligibly better(if at all, I'm not conivned Mariota is better than Heinecke and I KNOW Darnold isn't).

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

The context was QB competition and if bringing them in meant Heinicke/Allen wouldn't be in competition anymore.

Thats why I now see a move for Darnold as very likely, day 2 pick. I think that actual becomes a real competition, whether we like Darnold or not.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

This is something I postulated a while back.  Might be tough to find a trade partner, but the idea of still adding young talent while setting the team up to better afford trading up down the road is a more farsighted move than we’re used to around here.  Don’t love the idea of punting on qb, but smart drafting and cap maintenance can help extend the window we keep harping on.

 

 

Looks clearly that their preference is to make a move this off season but they don't want to force it.  By that meaning they don't want to grossly overpay for a target or go to town for a QB they don't love.  So if things don't come together, they'd look at 2022 and perhaps try to help set that up now. 

[HigSkin]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Thats why I now see a move for Darnold as very likely, day 2 pick. I think that actual becomes a real competition, whether we like Darnold or not.

 

 

Or a guy like Minshew who wouldn't cost as much.  🙂

 

https://fansided.com/2021/02/06/gardner-minshew-washington-best-option-qb-2021/

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by HigSkin

[RWJ]

If this years 1st and next years 1st get a deal done with Carr, that's the option we should take, I think.  We'd still have our 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 7, 7, and 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 for next year.  Makes more sense than trading away a 1st and more for a rookie when Carr can be your starter on day 1 for the next several years.  We can add FA assets and draft them too with our remaining picks for this year and next.